Go Pitbull Forums banner

The Bandogge ( pic heavy )

84K views 87 replies 24 participants last post by  redog 
#1 · (Edited)
The Bandogge

The Bandogge, or Bandog if you prefer, is not a purebred dog in the way we know the word purebred.
The words Bandogge and Bandog is being used on dogs of mixed Molosser ancestry, most often with Pit Bull as one of parent components.



The name Bandog, or Bandogge, comes from the old Saxon word "banda"; the Saxon word for chain. It was used on watchdogs chained at day and released at night, to carry out its watching and guarding duties. It is quite obvious that the name was used on any chained watchdog, Mastiffs, Bulldogs and dogs of mixed ancestry, but it is also certain that these chained dogs must have been of a recognisable watchdog type, which eliminates all dogs which was not of more or less Molosser blood.



This means that any Molosser cross of today could rightfully be called a Bandog, even if the most common crosses today which is called Bandog is the Mastino Napoletano/Pit Bull and the Bullmastiff/Pit Bull.




One of the fairly common methods of producing Bandogs is by crossing Pit Bull males with Bullmastiff bitches. This cross was earlier much more used in Europe than the Neo/Pit cross. Some refers to this cross as Bandogs, while others, especially in USA, call them Pitbullmastiffs. Considering that the Bullmastiff is a British breed, and that the Pit Bull is derivatived from the British "Bull and Terriers", this cross should be more like the original Bandogge of Britain than the Neo/Pit cross.



Another method to bred Bandogs is to cross the Pit Bull with English Mastiffs, but many breeders is of the opinion that the Mastiff is a too much laidback bred and they prefer using the Neo in the cross instead of the Mastiff, so the cross will be thougher and inhabit more gameness.



History of the Bandog

DNA sequencing has confirmed that all dogs (Canis lupus familiaris) originated from the wolf (Canis lupus); however, the exact development of the original Bandogs still remains a mystery. Although, it is impossible to say exactly how the Bandog originated, it is certain the original Bandogs were bred with a functional purpose, as were all working breeds, and for the Bandog this purpose revolved around guarding and protecting.[citation needed]

Early incarnations of the Bandog probably had bloodlines from bull baiting dogs and the Guardian Mastiffs or the cross of both like the war dogs used in the Crusades.



William Harrison, in his description of England during 1586, first mentions the type in his statement, "Bandogge which is a huge dog, stubborn, uglier, eager, burthenouse of bodie, terrible and fearful to behold and often more fierce and fell than any Archadian or Corsican cur." It is assumed that the word "Bandogge" originated from the use of strong bonds and chains to secure the dogs.[1]

In 1576, Dr. Caius states that, among others characteristics, the "Mastiff or Bandogge is serviceable against the fox and the badger, to drive wild and tame swine out of meadows, and pastures, to bite and take the bull by the ears, when occasion so required." [2]







The Bandogs of old were strictly working dogs, often of various crosses and various sizes. Usually these dogs were coarse-haired hunters, fighters and property protectors without a strictly set type, developed from eastern shepherds and mastiffs crossed with western Bullenbeissers and hounds, with a few local bloodlines eventually being established as specific types in some regions, such as Britain, Spain, Germany, Poland and elsewhere in Europe. One of the most famous Bandog programs in England led to the establishment of a recognized breed, the Bullmastiff.



Foundation breeding

What is reported here is just an estimated expected average range of various foundations breeds commonly seen in various Bandog programs.

The Primary Group , approximate average of 25-75% from American Pit Bull Terrier and/or Bull Terrier.

The Secondary Group ,approximate average of 25-75% from English Mastiff and/or Neapolitan Mastiff.

A Tertiary Group (used in some programs) approximate average of 0-75%: American Bulldog, Boerboel, Bullmastiff, Bulldog Campeiro, Cane Corso, Dogue de Bordeaux, Fila Brasileiro, Great Dane, Perro de Presa Canario,Dogo Argentino, and/or the Tosa Inu.



more photos:
American Bandogge Mastiff Pictures and Photos
 
See less See more
11
#3 ·
no wonder people have such a hard time figurin out what a pitbull is ;) its so crazy that there are so many different breeds that look so much like the apbt and the only difference really is size and muscle compilation. mix one with another and keep that mix and u have a whole new breed. this was a good read as i'm not a huge reader on the in depth history of where the lines and all that came from. i tend to have the opinion my dogs aren't papered so alot of the info doesn't really pertain to me. as long as i have the basic knowledge to back the breed when asked questions i think thats good enough. for me anyway. the history is kinda cool tho. would love to know what went into that black n white beast with the cropped ears cuz i want one like him some day ;)
 
#12 ·
Schutzhund I don't think they would make a good canidate for that, but for PP work, home guarding, or sentry work they really excell(from what I've learned)

You can go to game-dog.com do an advanced search for user name Lee Robinson and you will learn just about anything you want to know about the Swinford K-9 and his breeding program. Just click the stastics link on his profile, then find all posts link and read away.

Here is a link that talks about one of his breedings a purebreed APBT to a 50%APBT/50% EM, he posted 3 pictures of two of the dogs produced.
Chimera's chief - Pit Bull Forums
 
#30 ·
so a ghenghis kahn dog would be a bandogge? it is a apbt/amstaff/presa combo bred for weight pull and pp. imo the bully is a bandogge the classic bully is not. the classic bully is the amstaff/apbt the bully being amstaff/apbt/?(ab,db,presa,cane corso,dogo,boerbel, neo). these formulas are the known formulas for each as such well by the definition of a bandogge the bull would be a bandogge unless it is the amstaff/apbt/ab combo. all these other dogs (db,presa,cane corso,dogo, boerbel, neo) are of the mastiff family.
 
#52 · (Edited)
Very nice dogs. Some of them inherited some of the not-so-attractive mastiff traits, but the good ones are very nice looking. I wonder which crosses produce quality more consistently? Some of the proportions on some of them look like it would severely hinder the dog if it was an active worker, not just a yard candy scary deterrent, LOL. But the ones that inherited the right stuff from each breed are very nice indeed.

Can you get better results by using percentages? Like bandog x apbt? To refine the dog's structure a bit more? But of course, temperament is just as important, so the chances of getting that star pup are kinda slim. (Unless you know what you are doing and have already made all the mistakes enough to know better.)
 
#53 · (Edited)
reddog, you never ceize to impress me, i was going to put more photos of Bully Kutas but many of them were photos showing them in bear fights or dog fights.

GTR i would imagine it to be a very inexact science , for instance the creature with the stripes at the top of one of the other posts in this thread, im guessing you can do another breeding with the same sire and dam and still not get the same results, the best you could hope for is a litter from to healthy great temp'ed parents and your odds are better, aesthetics might differ from pup to pup, litter to litter.

IMO
 
#54 ·
This is a hypothetical because I am not a breeder or anything like that but I would love to imagine what my brother's bulldog would produce with a good neapolitan specimen.





Check out this Presa







They ran a DNA test on it which I know is not accurate but they could only find 30% of its breed make up the rest was unknown it had english bulldog and boxer..
 
#56 · (Edited)
Bulldogge Mastiff Bandogge



you might get lucky and end up with this....



chances are you might get something that looks more like this,lol:
Baby, the big baby. photo - Kelly G. (the 14 yr. old) photos at pbase.com

I know your just thinking out loud, no worries. I have my own mad scientist breed mix ideas in my mind ... I would just imagine a hip and elbow nightmare with whatever comes out from the two unless they both were tested OFA great or more. ( i myself am inexperienced in these matters, so I wouldnt know)

absolutely handsome dogs, love that BD!!!
 
#57 ·
That's the issue with giant breeds, you gotta treat them like babies until 3 or 4 so they develop correctly. These breeds develop very slow so you can't push them until they are done growing. Even dogs with good hips can still produce dogs with bad hips so there is always a chance but you def have a higher success rate than just backyard breeding lol
 
#58 ·
I don't baby my dogs at all. If they cant cut it they aren't breeding quality.
I would NEVER let a bulldog anywhere near my neo bitches.
Bull dogs are worthless when it comes to performance.
They overheat, they are HD nightmares 70 percent of the time and they
have skin problems (most).
 
#59 ·
The HD is there due to the breed but not all bulldogs are johnson stock with short muzzles that can't breath. My brothers bulldog is 22 inches tall probably around 80 pounds and the boy can move, he is actually very lean you can see rib and he has a nice waist tuck. He is hyper as hell and he is always on the go. He is not worked because my brother doesn't have the time:( but I tell you his bulldog is not a sloppy lazzy dog at all. With the right owner this dog could def accomplish some great things, he is only a pup anyway and the possibility of HD is there but as far as energy level and drive he is there. He is obviously not an APBT so I cant compere it to that but for a big boy this dog is full of energy and he has a very good temperament so far.

I would also like to add that ever since he was switched to raw at 6 months old his skin as been in excellent shape. My brother switched him from blue buffalo to kirkland and his dog got some nasty acne all over his face. After he made the switch to raw his dog went back to normal and hasn't had a problem since.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top