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Question on Inbreeding

9K views 59 replies 12 participants last post by  Rudy4747 
#1 · (Edited)
Just curious. What do you guys mean by inbreeding done properly?

I could see how breeding cousins makes sense or dogs from between generations of litters... But am curious to know how 'inbreeding done responsibly/properly' occurs?

Just the word 'inbreeding' sounds scary & all but would like other's educated opinions
 
#2 ·
Proper inbreeding is done by people who are aware that it doubles up on the bad genes. So they do it with the dogs of the best health, thus trying to avoid this doubling up of bad genes. Too many people just breed mother son, father daughter, without doing hte proper testing to avoid these defects. But I'm sure someone can chime in and give you a lot more detailed description of how it's done properly....
 
#4 · (Edited)
It brings out recessive traits that are wanted. say if there is any faults you want to cull these dogs to take them out of the gene pool. Bad inbreeders will not cul these dogs and keep them in the breeding pool to just make things worse.

Otherwise you are just scatterbreeding which is not good in my eyes. as you will be loosing traits bloodlines ect.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Cull=kill

And you may think you're not interested in inbreeding, just know that it's usualy called "linebreeding" with dogs. And it is done in almost every well known bloodline. If you pick a CH dog for a well known bloodline and examine his/her ped, you will most likely see linebreeding done many times.


edit: Also note that some people call inbreeding and linebreeding different things. Inbreeding is usually when 2 very close relatives are bread, mother son, father daughter, brother sister, where as linebreeding is generally doing further out breedings, cousin to cousin, uncle to neice, grandfather to grand daughter. Now with "linebreeding" there is a lower chance of producing those undesirable traits. But they both have there pros and cons. And linebreeding is still technically inbreeding.
 
#8 ·
Cull=kill

And you may think you're not interested in inbreeding, just know that it's usualy called "linebreeding" with dogs. And it is done in almost every well known bloodline. If you pick a CH dog for a well known bloodline and examine his/her ped, you will most likely see linebreeding done many times.

edit: Also note that some people call inbreeding and linebreeding different things. Inbreeding is usually when 2 very close relatives are bread, mother son, father daughter, brother sister, where as linebreeding is generally doing further out breedings, cousin to cousin, uncle to neice, grandfather to grand daughter. Now with "linebreeding" there is a lower chance of producing those undesirable traits. But they both have there pros and cons. And linebreeding is still technically inbreeding.
:goodpost:

That's the answer that I was looking for.

What I meant to say is, I'm not interested in becoming a breeder. Just interested in the breeding techniques.

Linebreeding I have lesser of an issue with opposed to inbreeding. Interesting that there are subcategories for the procedure.

Thanks dude!
 
#7 · (Edited)
Nothing wrong with inbreeding and linebreeding IF the breeder is responsible, willing to cull if mistakes crop up, and has some knowledge of breeding. If a line has a desirable trait, inbreeding can bring that trait out stronger - the same goes for undesirable traits too though - if inbreeding occurs with badly bred dogs it can accentuate and bring out the bad traits even more.

This chart shows a continuous sire to daughter mating:


An intensive form of linebreeding where an individual with highly desirable traits(S) is mated to his daughter(D1) and daughter's daughter(D2) and so on, in order to maximise the percentage of S's genes in the offsprings. D1 has 50% of his genes while D2 being both his daughter and granddaughter has 75%{(100+50)/2} and D3, being daughter, granddaughter and great-granddaughter has 87.5%{(100+75)/2} of his genes. The D4 generation would have 93.75% of his genes.
http://books.google.com/books?id=UdvIpkQOf5MC&pg=PA51#v=onepage&q&f=false
 
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#9 ·
Nothing wrong with inbreeding and linebreeding IF the breeder is responsible, willing to cull if mistakes crop up, and has some knowledge of breeding. If a line has a desirable trait, inbreeding can bring that trait out stronger - the same goes for undesirable traits too though - if inbreeding occurs with badly bred dogs it can accentuate and bring out the bad traits even more.

This chart shows a continuous sire to daughter mating:


Inbreeding and brood stock management - Google Books
:goodpost: Thank you MissAPBT :)
 
#10 ·
No problem! But like MISSAPBT said, there is nothing wrong with inbreeding if it's done properly off of well bred dogs. It's just that too many people don't think about it before they do it. So they breed 2 poorly bred dogs together and then you get a frankendog, and then they're too dumb to cull the frankendogs, and only save the ones that have the traits they were after.

Inbreeding and linebreeding can be found in almost every ped, just because inbreeding is frowned upon in the human world, it's nothing to frown upon when it comes to animals. :)
 
#11 ·
No problem! But like MISSAPBT said, there is nothing wrong with inbreeding if it's done properly off of well bred dogs. It's just that too many people don't think about it before they do it. So they breed 2 poorly bred dogs together and then you get a frankendog, and then they're too dumb to cull the frankendogs, and only save the ones that have the traits they were after.

Inbreeding and linebreeding can be found in almost every ped, just because inbreeding is frowned upon in the human world, it's nothing to frown upon when it comes to animals. :)
Gotcha ;)

Now when you say cull, meaning you cease a poor outcome bred dog to breed in the future. So it culls the genetics of problematic chromosomes to reoccur?
 
#14 ·
LoL :D It's always nice to have an intelligent conversation with another

I've heard people use the word "cull" differently. I've heard some using it as a term to "kill" the dog. And I've heard some people refer to it as a term for just removing the dog from your breeding program. So you can take it however you want to...lol But either way you're not going to use the dog that you're culling to ever breed again....
I prefer the 'removing from the breeding program' term. I settle much easier with that thought... Unless of course the pup comes out very deformed then I believe it's humane to the animal to put to sleep so it doesn't suffer in life.

Side note*
Little miss 'water lily' sends her regards as she barked at me to place her on my lap... Call her water lily 'cause she's in the dumping water bowl stage...
http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/29815-introducing-southern-infernos-lily.html
 
#13 ·
I've heard people use the word "cull" differently. I've heard some using it as a term to "kill" the dog. And I've heard some people refer to it as a term for just removing the dog from your breeding program. So you can take it however you want to...lol But either way you're not going to use the dog that you're culling to ever breed again....
 
#21 ·
True inbreeding and linebreeding are not one in the same....
Inbreeding is the breeding of full brother to sister or parent to offspring. Both are used as tools to get more consistency within a litter.
This will help you better understand.

Inbreeding:
Encyclopedia of the American Pit Bull Terrier : Inbreeding

Linebreeding:
Encyclopedia of the American Pit Bull Terrier : Linebreeding

Outcrossing:
Encyclopedia of the American Pit Bull Terrier : Outcrossing

Backcrossing:
Encyclopedia of the American Pit Bull Terrier : Backcrossing

Scatterbreeding:
Encyclopedia of the American Pit Bull Terrier : Scatterbreeding
 
#24 · (Edited)
Inbreeding is closely related
Linebreeding related less closely related than inbreeding

Linebred Kaiga's Sydney
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=351165

Inbred CH LONZO'S BUBA (5xw)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=55676

To the psot about Inbreeding is wrong if you inbreed on a crapy line, the likely result will be crappy pups. But if you inbreed on a quality line, the likely result will be quality pups. So don't worry. Inbreeding isn't the problem. It's what line that you're working with in the first place that should be your source of worry. That will determine whether your pup will have problems or not.
 
#25 ·
Basically it is a tool to help breed in which there will be a very good chance of maintaining type. A simple reason is that out-crossing throws a wild card in the program. Some might be tall, some short, some one type of head or another. When you breed dogs of close relation you eliminate many wild cards.....that is provided you know what is behind those dogs for 6-7 generations.
 
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#30 ·
Inbreeding is done by the best breeders out there. Done correctly its an asset to any program. Problem is, few do it correctly. Inbreeding tightens the gene pool, strengthning both the best and the worst qualities in the line. VERY SELECTIVE culling should be done after a litter like this has been done and the subsequent cross breeding should be done as to favor the good qualities that came from the inbreeding and diminish the negative ones.

If you have a great dog who possess most of the qualities you are looking for for a given reason, when you find the right son/daughter that is equal to or better than your dog and is also better in the areas your first dog was weak, line breed. I would NEVER linebreed twice in a row but would rather skip 2 generations before doing it again. Then linebreed that offspring.
 
#35 ·
If you have a big enough gene pool to begin with, as in not just 4 dogs but say 15 or so that you are working in the line you do not have to outcross. It has been said about Colby that he only used ONE outcross in his whole breeding program, and thats ALOT of dogs and considered one of the purest lines out there.
 
#37 ·
If you have a big enough gene pool to begin with, as in not just 4 dogs but say 15 or so that you are working in the line you do not have to outcross.
Assuming you have a large enough gene pool to begin with I would agree but how many bloodlines are really very pure now days? At least with game dogs you tend to see dog men outcrossing frequently to some extent anyway ... and at some point your going to hit a wall within a breeding program and that's when outcrossing becomes very useful.
 
#36 ·
Well it depends on the dog man breeding there have been many proven outcrosses that worked/work extremely well. With game dogs or game bred dogs you will frequently see outcrossing in a pedigree. I think that outcrossing shakes things up when you hit a wall, it strengthens performance, and introduces desirable traits into a breeding program. I am not a huge fan of a breeding too tight and outcrossing def can be used to correct the problems that arise from breeding too tightly. JMO

But In the end it all depends on what your looking for and what your trying to establish.
 
#38 ·
I have been looking hard into sorrells dogs. witch have been line bred to them selves for so long and mr bert sorrell had so many dog that he in the end seems to not have outcross much. But I belive it was like OFK said because his yard was so big toward the end. I like them a lot. What do you guys think? Too tight bred or or good linebreeding? Just wanted some opinions.
 
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