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Old 01-10-2013, 04:11 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by performanceknls View Post
Interesting thread, also interesting that the color Chocolate was not used to describe pit dogs.....

As per the ADBA standard which is the one we have to go by the term Chocolate is used to describe APBT's but Tri color is not.
I have a chocolate brindle myself and she was named that color from her breeder who is not a BYB. It probably wasn't used pre 1976 but things were simpler back then. It was a brown dog no matter what shade of brown it was! lol
I didn't know "chocolate" was used in the ADBA.
I will be registering my OFRN dogs with them in the near future, and to the OFRN crowd that word is blasphemy, LOL.

Was never into showing, but I believe it would be good to show that true OFRN still exists.
One of my current pups is "silver red brindle/white chest/ blaze."

You said it, things were simpler back then, lOL.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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My OFRN just passed away and I called her always a red but I have seen some of the ORFN get a little darker like chocolate. So they just call them red still? I never really thought of that since I only had one in all my years with these dogs. Yes the ADBA has several varasions of chocolate. I find the colors a little silly myself like the chocolate bluies....
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by performanceknls View Post
Interesting thread, also interesting that the color Chocolate was not used to describe pit dogs.....

As per the ADBA standard which is the one we have to go by the term Chocolate is used to describe APBT's but Tri color is not.
I have a chocolate brindle myself and she was named that color from her breeder who is not a BYB. It probably wasn't used pre 1976 but things were simpler back then. It was a brown dog no matter what shade of brown it was! lol
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
 

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There is no such thing as a ghost tri. What your being scammed into when your being told about a "ghost tri" is a fawn, no matter what color nose it has, with the genetics for sable markings (wether they are faint or heavy). A ghost tri, is from my experience, what they attempt to sell off as a cool name for the blue fawn version of the lie the call a fawn tri. Neither is genetically possible! Yet, tri colors frequently sell for extra money, so they call them fawn tris, bluefawn tris, or ghost tris, and tell you "they are tri color, you just can't see the tan points because they are the same color as the rest of him."

Thats bullpoop! The only truthful thing like that would be if they said he isn't tri, but carries one copy of the tri gene. Technically without genetic testing, they can't prove that either, unless you know exactly what phenotypes to look for, and even then there is a possiblity you wouldn't know for certain depending on the scenario.

"Tricolor" is the American Bully (along with a few other breeds) term for tan points on a base color with white markings on top of them, ideally, a blaze, white chest, (with or without a full or partial collar), white feet, and white tail tip.This theoretically creates three layers of color or a "tri color". Understanding color isn't significant when considering functionality, it is, however, an aspect by which people frequently choose their next dog.

I planned to explain the whole thing out through from a detailed genetics perspective, but i'm sure there is already a color genetics thread somewhere.

Anyway, you can't have a "Fawn tri" because the gene for fawn and the gene for tan points are on the same Locus, and since a puppy only gets one allele per parent per locus, it couldn't possible display both at the same time. Tan Points is recessive, so a pup has to get an allele for tan points from both parents which would be "a(t)a(t)" for the tan points to show up. Any other combination and the pup is only a carrier of tan points. So, it the pup got an allele telling him to be fawn, he couldn't have tan points because he only gets two alleles per locus, and since both have to be for tan points to allow tan points to show up, there isn't room left to have one for fawn(sable which is essentially what allows for fawn).
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by performanceknls View Post
My OFRN just passed away and I called her always a red but I have seen some of the ORFN get a little darker like chocolate. So they just call them red still? I never really thought of that since I only had one in all my years with these dogs. Yes the ADBA has several varasions of chocolate. I find the colors a little silly myself like the chocolate bluies....
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Sorry to hear that.
Yes, in the OFRN Registry the color is only referred to as red (any variation: light, dark, silver, brindle.) With white being acceptable at less than 25%.
I have a female that is dark red and people have mistook her for a chocolate lab, LOL.
They just add she looks a "bit different."
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
 

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Yea I've seen multiple tri or dogs with rottweiler dobermen markings heck even pics that look old.I was sold on the GHOST TRI THING but I like the markings point blank period.And I get that colors wasn't a reason why ppl breed back then but heck it is now.I loce pits ! APBT and also the Amstaffs honestly feel they are the same just differences in body structures, but be that as it may not a fan of these hog looking bullies or what not.I know times are different and most old heads want accept it times have changed a pit or staff 1st I see and like is the structure and built then the color I mean who all want the same colored dogs and isn't that what shows are about the looks of a dog.Ijs I love the 30-50lbs dog love the weight pull dogs 4yrs ago was a introduction to weight pulling and two yrs ago was my introdution to the world of different pits and paper work.Being on here is most definitely helpful I love the threads and comments all the fedback is helpful and I'm still learning but again thank you all so much for the insight on not just my pup but APBTS PERIOD.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
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tri .. being black tan and white .. fall under black and tan.. the "tri" with the white is genetically linked to black and tan. I've bred my apbts small to 27-30lbs .. now when I follow the gentic guideline right I should be able to find the right brindle or black and tan APBT bred right and as to be a small dog it will throw black and tans with this buckskin female I got. Then everyone will be convinced my lil 27lb black and tan dogs are ..... .... .... .... terrier mixed... LOL people have NO clue about genetics. .. people think my 27lbs dog is a boxer mix

Black and tan is one of the original colors of the fighting bulldog and it was dominant in a particular terrier that was bred down from the first terriers ever which came from inbred pit bulldogs of late 1700s .. The first terriers registered were in 1835 in England and they came from really inbred pit bulldogs. England is responsible mainly for developing the fighting bulldog from the alaunt which is from the Fighting Dog of Gaul (original DDB) and from that lil fighting bulldog they pulled bear biters, bandogs(mastiffs) and terriers .. The pit terrier is the direct inbred inbred inbred decendant from the pit bulldog and tossed back into the the pit bulldog altered the genetics forever and they are forever one breed Bull and Terrier.. Precuser to that as they got the pit terrier from the bulldog they bred that lil terrier into everything to get other lil crosses. This same action was done in France, Germany and other coutries but not to the perfection of England and Ireland. The Manchester Terrier is a rough lil terrier named for the region it was most popular and even though its more a showbred dog now in its original form it was a direct kick down from the pit terrier back into it and from that the English White fighting terrier, now extinct. Dobermans are german dogs bred down from German English crossed dogs and it was the "Farm Terrier" the original is a much more balanced dog. Pincher means terrier in german.

Black and Tan, Buckskin Red, White with cowdog spots ... are the original colors of the breed... ... When brindle dogs were introduced from using a crossout from the bear biter stock they through in a world of diversity in brindle, again in the late 1800s they threw brindle dogs in. Before then its recorded in a world of bulldog and mastiff history that they kept brindle stock seperate for the longest time. Interestingly enough they seperated the bear biter stock and one became the Danish hound (Great Dane) the other the Rottweiller... Brindle trumps Black and Tan .. .. in the hammonds hailstone strain there is black and brindled tan .. thats some inbred linebred inbred mutations for you to figure out.

So if black tan and white are genetically the same as black and tan ... THEN
Blue and Tan
Choco and tan
Seal and tan
buskin red and tan
tan and yellow I've seen em in all those colors.

Brindle dogs(bred in a particular fashion) taken to buckskins can through black and tan (remember brindle trumps black and tan so thats going to require math and good timing or just plain or forrest gump luck)
A black and tan X a buckskin (yellow or red) produces black and tan
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:43 PM   #23 (permalink)
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^^^^Thank you!!!
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I always thought when people said ghost tri they were meaning that the markings were in the undertones and only visible in certain light. Dosia has undertones like that however I just call him seal.

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Old 01-10-2013, 05:55 PM   #25 (permalink)
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thats still black.. its just some is black without red pigment and some is not.. Tudors/Mayfields Nigger was one of these dogs..
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:07 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Smiggs has a "ghost tri" I believe. And I really like Stan's breakdown of the genetics and color! Really insightful!
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:52 PM   #27 (permalink)
 
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Tan points have been a part of the breed for a very long time. It is not a rare color by any means. In fact, there used to be b/t Colby dogs, Wildside Kennels bred a few and it is now very common in the Sorrells line.

And just for future reference, if a breeder "specializes" in a certain color, RUN do not walk away. Even if you like the dog's ped, a pretty pedigree doesn't make a dog good.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I heard a new one the otherday. Reverse Tri... pretty sure they were refering to Sable/Smut, or Fawn with Black Ticking for the ADBA people.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:21 AM   #29 (permalink)
 

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I always thought when people said ghost tri they were meaning that the markings were in the undertones and only visible in certain light. Dosia has undertones like that however I just call him seal.

Yea dude told me the same thing that's he have some markings (which do) and carry the trait which reproduce some tris or whatever its called but I liked his color and paper work even though he does have some bullies bloodlines in him he doesn't look like them what so ever
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:22 AM   #30 (permalink)
 

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Tan points have been a part of the breed for a very long time. It is not a rare color by any means. In fact, there used to be b/t Colby dogs, Wildside Kennels bred a few and it is now very common in the Sorrells line.

And just for future reference, if a breeder "specializes" in a certain color, RUN do not walk away. Even if you like the dog's ped, a pretty pedigree doesn't make a dog good.
Your so right about that
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