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Old 01-07-2013, 12:36 AM   #46 (permalink)
 
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saint franciS- you are my DUDE!!! i would've thrown jeep in there n at least we had 1 hell of a contender letEM roll n not because i love them---bUT BECAUSE


THEY THEY LOVE ME.THAT DICUSSION WAS EFFN AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:03 AM   #47 (permalink)
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saint franciS- you are my DUDE!!! i would've thrown jeep in there n at least we had 1 hell of a contender letEM roll n not because i love them---bUT BECAUSE


THEY THEY LOVE ME.THAT DICUSSION WAS EFFN AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Every once in awhile a good discussion finds us, with some debate of course LOL. Usually I just stay out of the way and let the chiefs hash it out...I'm just a low Indian on the totem pole of knowledge in some areas, but I figure it is far better to be long on ears and short on mouth when trying to learn something.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:52 PM   #48 (permalink)
 
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What section was this thread started in? "Bloodline Discussion." Anyone with half a brain knows the ApBT has a number of "bloodlines."
Why else would every Tom, Dick, and Harry be asking for the "Carver dogs, Mayfield dogs, Garner dogs, ect.?"
They read a story or two and want one of the dogs from the said dog, hence, same bloodline that carries the blood of said dog/breeder.

But I'll keep it simple. You can take all the scientists, pedigree pushers, etc, in the world, with all their fancy titles.
Then give them whatever dogs they want to breed.
They will never produce true bulldogs, better bulldogs than what they started with.
Maurice Carver (too bad those who praise him never learned from his words!!) said it best:
I advertise winners and the whole world buys my dogs because I sell bulldogs. Every other dogman in the world advertises pedigrees!
You see, they need proof their dogs are good...BUT THAT's NOT PROOF!!!"
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:10 PM   #49 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Saint Francis View Post
Every once in awhile a good discussion finds us, with some debate of course LOL. Usually I just stay out of the way and let the chiefs hash it out...I'm just a low Indian on the totem pole of knowledge in some areas, but I figure it is far better to be long on ears and short on mouth when trying to learn something.
Once upon a time a young man from Austria named Adolf Hitler wrote a book...
Well, a stupified German nation believed him. The rest is history, and they are still discovering things today left behind by those hell bound German Nazis.

Point: whose knowledge would you choose? Men who lived it with bulldogs, and produced proven winners?
Or those who talk it but never walked it, who preach pedigrees but have no winners!?

The choice is easy, and the highest way is the simplest!
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:06 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Once upon a time a young man from Austria named Adolf Hitler wrote a book...
Well, a stupified German nation believed him. The rest is history, and they are still discovering things today left behind by those hell bound German Nazis.

Point: whose knowledge would you choose? Men who lived it with bulldogs, and produced proven winners?
Or those who talk it but never walked it, who preach pedigrees but have no winners!?

The choice is easy, and the highest way is the simplest!
True. What can't be found in books, actual authenticated history I'm talking about, must be found at the source...so opinion can be separated from fact. Ahh Hitler, he was a very, very bad man. Hitler was a messiah for a broken down people, and a monster for the rest. He was a dictator plain and simple...a mad genius. His reign of terror will forever serve as a reminder of how disgusting mankind can become.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:12 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Well for all of those I just checked refferences yesterday and everytime Colby and Corvino lines met in the [] 4 of 5 it was the Colby that won. As far as bloodlines I know what your saying, I lived by that understanding and if you didn't read or can't tell I pretty much adhere right in along with Heinzl and Colby in their thought on bulldogs and pedigrees. Considering there are none in their class today and very few yesterday ; then that is what it is.

What makes a bloodline > well BLOODLINE is a made up word some breeders associate it with a family some associate it with breed and some associate it with strain.


.... All DOGS and WOLVES are identical under Canis Lupis according to DNA records...
Wolves are the SPECIES
Dog is the SUB SPECIES as there are MANY different from the wolf.
bulldogs would be STRAIN <<< Bloodline of dog??? in origin and in working question.
families would be SUB STRAINS <<Bloodline of dog as in family bloodline?? .. Paddy, Gas House, Pilot << COLBY .. OFRN.(corvino,clouse etc because its the tightest and purest of the Paddy, Gas House, Pilot DNA)


Thats my point, maybe we should follow Heinzl, and COLBY in their way of breeding a dog. I quit following Corvino however I understand I was an OFRN fanatic at one point. When it comes to genetics the only thing that prooves scientific biology wrong is "God".

Bloodline is a slang term .. It has been said: "what bloodline of dog?" more often than "what bloodline of GSD, APBT, AST, KBD," etc.. etc... because that is how it originated.. We didnt create English we just created our own rules to it as we went along. American English. LOL Bloodline would be sub species or sub strain.. However it can be associated with family bloodline.. So is the family the breeder or the dogs DNA herritage itself? I thought both, such as with COLBY, HEINZL, CORVINO, etc.. you know? What we really mean are strains OR sub strains. Bloodline is just more flavorable for story telling.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:43 PM   #52 (permalink)
 
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ok geoman have i made my point to you yet?????? a bloodline has been misconstrued to to point that a blood line can mean whatever the f*** you want it to mean. i made my point and do not care if you have more years in tHis than me (26) so the next TIME you go correcting someone about what a bloodline is just remember that today it means whatever STRAIN of dog you are talking about aND you can thank the rest of the apbt community for SCREWING UP THE WHOLE DEFINITION OF WHAT A BLOODLINE IS)my point IS THIS ACCORDING TO THE ABDA -YOUR LIL PUP IS NOT A BLOODLINE -it is a strain of canine lupus. family of mammilia genus of vertebrae. keep yer opinions to yourself .or correct someone trying to get a 12wk old pup to pull. signed-not a fan.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:52 AM   #53 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by JMAN2013 View Post
ok geoman have i made my point to you yet?????? a bloodline has been misconstrued to to point that a blood line can mean whatever the f*** you want it to mean. i made my point and do not care if you have more years in tHis than me (26) so the next TIME you go correcting someone about what a bloodline is just remember that today it means whatever STRAIN of dog you are talking about aND you can thank the rest of the apbt community for SCREWING UP THE WHOLE DEFINITION OF WHAT A BLOODLINE IS)my point IS THIS ACCORDING TO THE ABDA -YOUR LIL PUP IS NOT A BLOODLINE -it is a strain of canine lupus. family of mammilia genus of vertebrae. keep yer opinions to yourself .or correct someone trying to get a 12wk old pup to pull. signed-not a fan.
Ya know, I have spoken with respect up to this point, and now you wanna be a total punk about it all? Figures.
Now go cry like the baby from the Pepsi Generation you are.
But you tell me what to do? Bitch I'll put you in place fast.

Signed: the hand that slapped you!

Firehazard: My whole point is this. Modern times may change, but basics never do.
The best dogs ever to cross lines weren't built by all that mumbo jumbo BS.
They were built and maintained at a price, through experience. Through loss.
Most the modern theories I have heard all sound good, but guess what?
They are no help to beginners, and are not maintained or carried by experience.
If you spoke that way to John P. Colby, he'd laugh at you.
He bred BEST to BEST. Each dog was judged individually. Each movement, habit, instinct.
Just too bad the old days are over. I'd put my money on the old timers.
Their ways are tried and true.
So it best to keep it simple. Science has no eyes in the [].
For that is where the bulldogs I speak of were born.
And if one isn't improving what they have, they have no business breeding lesser quality.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:04 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I've read both Colby books more than once, along with others and have Colby breeders I've spoken with; Im sure he'd laugh alright.. Chuckle and give me good paddy dog! By the way he talked and Mr. Lou Colby talked, let alone the book by his uncle ... and by looking at that mumbo jumbo pedigrees, then you'll see it was highly prized on paddy. JP kept the best records known well for keeping acurate genuine records. He like keeping records and bred the best dogs til Heinzl come around and well Corvino is a great one however all the times Colby and Corvino blood [] it out it was the Colby the victor.. BOTH are based on Paddy premdominately. THE [] IS THE CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT thats scientific breeding at its finest. Proving game.. and only breeding and using proven game.

begging the question what makes a bloodline?

Depending on who you are its simple: Strain or Sub Strain .. of the sub species: bulldog down from the wolf species or Canis Lupis.
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Last edited by Firehazard; 01-08-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:46 PM   #55 (permalink)
 
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all the times Colby and Corvino blood [] it out it was the Colby the victor.. BOTH are based on Paddy .

I'm willing to bet you a large sum on that one!!!! LOL
Even Colby had curs....that quit cold turkey. That refused to scratch.

But what I liked about Corvino is this: If he ever lost he would buy the dog that beat his.
That's how it should be. Like all of us, if we don't believe we have the best, what are we feeding them for?

About pedigrees, my point there is when we speak of dogs from long ago, we speak at a time when pedigrees were hung.
What mattered most? The pedigree or the performance of the dog in the []?
It was the latter of the two. That is what Carver meant when he said every other dogman advertised pedigrees.
Prime example: Red Boy is well known, but he was paper hung.
Didn't matter. He performed and he produced.
Look at Red Boy/Jocko. It was Red Boy that made that line good, not Jocko.
Straight Jocko produced curs. Just like Mayday, produced curs.

Just because it looks good on paper doesn't mean it will perform well, or produce well.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:54 PM   #56 (permalink)
 
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Now, what's the simple definition of a bloodline?
Okay, here's an example.

Let us each take litters of dogs all down from the same grandparents.
We continue to breed them.
When our own individual names are on the dogs both on top and bottom, from pup to great grandparents,
then although we have dogs from the same stock, we now have our own bloodlines.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:50 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Nice red tape .. the books and the marks in history show nothing beat them corvino and lightener dogs but .. .. Colby.. I'm well versed in curs used a few good hunters, and if redboy was rung it was probably something near it because he bred Colby style dogs often with red noses, thus the OFRN strain in there. Maybe he was corvino with a sliver of Colby =)

Bloodine means strain however its modern use of the term it does mean sub-strain in most minds. Colby and OFRN.. ALL bulldogs today come from these. Thus sub strains..
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Last edited by Firehazard; 01-08-2013 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:07 PM   #58 (permalink)
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arguing over agreeing about the same shit
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"How bout you learn to spread accurate information and not encourage peoples who's dogs LOOK LIKE MUTTS and tell them they look like Colby dogs. You spread to stupidest lies of almost anyone on this forum. Your google knowledge is BS just as your posts are. The only time your posts are at all correct is when your copying something KM said, other than piggy backing off of his actual knowledge you have no idea what you are talking about." -American_Pit13

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Old 01-08-2013, 11:25 PM   #59 (permalink)
 
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so dbag back to my original question tough guy. does any one know of any turtlebuster blood arund NORTHEAST ohio?
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:02 AM   #60 (permalink)
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arguing over agreeing about the same shit
ain't so .. LOL. Doh!
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