OFRN-Red Devil 8xw

Buliwyf · 01-15-2013, 06:52 PM

If you want the correct and accurate information about this "Strain":

Click on Legend to return to Website. Email before registering. Click here x to return to :: View Forum - History of the A(p)BT and the OFRN strain.

BTW Red Devil was not half Colby. Do not confuse Iron Lady with Iron Queen.
Iron Lady grand father was William's Red Dust. He was from Hemphill's Jigger and Corvino's By-Blue.

The picture floating around on the Internet of Creed's Duke is not Red Devil's sire.
Frank never used his last name in front of his male dogs unless he reused the name.
This picture of Creed's Duke is a son of Red Devil/Iron Queen. He is a bother to Al Offer's Tuffy 2xw and Creed's Blondy. He is also the same dog in Indian's Venus' pedigree in Boudreaux Scooter.

Red Devil was 5/8 Corvino, 1/4 Clark's mixer off Tramp and 1/8 Colby.
Red Devil was bred to Creed's Fanny (pure Corvino Bloodline) to produce Creed's Maggie.

OFRN is a strain, not a bloodline. A bloodline is like Hemphill, Wallace, Lightner, Williams, DeCordovas, I.D. Cole, Trice, Corcoran, etc.

Hope this helps the lesser knowledge people of this strain.
Read the threads, they will explain the difference.

**Firehazard** · 01-15-2013, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buliwyf

If you want the correct and accurate information about this "Strain":

Click on Legend to return to Website. Email before registering. Click here x to return to :: View Forum - History of the A(p)BT and the OFRN strain.

BTW Red Devil was not half Colby. Do not confuse Iron Lady with Iron Queen.
Iron Lady grand father was William's Red Dust. He was from Hemphill's Jigger and Corvino's By-Blue.

The picture floating around on the Internet of Creed's Duke is not Red Devil's sire.
Frank never used his last name in front of his male dogs unless he reused the name.
This picture of Creed's Duke is a son of Red Devil/Iron Queen. He is a bother to Al Offer's Tuffy 2xw and Creed's Blondy. He is also the same dog in Indian's Venus' pedigree in Boudreaux Scooter.

Red Devil was 5/8 Corvino, 1/4 Clark's mixer off Tramp and 1/8 Colby.
Red Devil was bred to Creed's Fanny (pure Corvino Bloodline) to produce Creed's Maggie.

OFRN is a strain, not a bloodline. A bloodline is like Hemphill, Wallace, Lightner, Williams, DeCordovas, I.D. Cole, Trice, Corcoran, etc.

Hope this helps the lesser knowledge people of this strain.
Read the threads, they will explain the difference.

IRON LADY or IRON QUEEN .. pick one they both have significant amount of colby
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...ree&dog_id=889 IRON LADY

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...e&dog_id=14108 IRON QUEEN

Only a few of these guys bred long enough to establish a "bloodline" or substrain .. I broke all this down scientifically on another thread. Armitage is the best colby stock of its day so is clark maybe they have some direct shots to Paddy however most of it is stacked colby dogs.

Clark and Armitage were both running near pure colby stock, Corvinos Shorty was half Colby and half Feeley..

Bloodlines are Strains some refer to them as if they were substrains.. What bloodline is your dog? Bulldog, Hound, etc.. what blood is your dog? Opinions vary on the term and use of the word and rarely does anyone use it correctly.

WOLF .. Species Canis Lupis
DOG.. Sub species..
BULLDOG Strain
Families substrain.

ALL bulldogs today come down from COLBY and OFRN "Bloodlines"aka STRAINS .. they are the bloodlines because all APBTs SUB STRAINs go back to them. OFRN has OF lines mixed with COLBY the %'s used vary from dog to dog but one thing is certain.. Paddy was the key. COLBY had more English outs through the Pilot stuff while OFRN had the OF outs going back to the irish dogs off the boat and older dogs that were already here most likely spanish bulldogs as there were spaniards here in Florida and Alabama before there were English, Irish, or any others from those Island Rocks. Why do you think its the District of Columbia not America ?? Use your thinker and collect those puzzle pieces called history. Families should be called sub strains.. not bloodlines. Arabian is bloodline, the Mustang a bloodline.. its the common slang and use of the word that causes confusion. We don't even live by bloodlines ourselves anymore so that comes to no surprise.

Goemon (Got the BAN STICK) · 01-16-2013, 07:29 PM

For any who are new to the breed, the above post is only personal opinion, not facts.
Go to any dog registry and they will inform you that the American (pit) Bull Terrier is a dog breed.
To learn about the Old Family Red Nose Strain of ApBT, go to link the OP gave,
or better yet, go to the Old Family Red Nose Registry, Inc., the leading authority on this strain.
It is a small and dedicated community dedicated to preserving the traditional OFRN dogs.
Many years of experience and life long learning will over ride any opinion one may have...and any book written by mankind.

As for Colby dogs, they were not the first family of dogs in America, as the Lightner dogs were around before John P. Colby was in diapers.
Armitage was not a Colby breeder, and Fly of Panama was not a pure Colby dog.
For info on Armitage read the book "30 Years With Fighting Dogs."
He dealt with many different dogs outside of the Colby dogs.
In it he talks of the "Redican dogs, that have no relation to the dogs I fought later."
I also read many names in that book, and the Colby name isn't mentioned more than a few times.

My point is that even the Colby family has never made the claims others are giving in their place.
It is inaccurate. Story may sound all good, but that's all it is, a story.

As for Pilot, who was imported from England and belonged to Cockney Charlie Lloyd:
"Pilot was acclaimed the best dog in the world and many breeders bred their bitches to him. The foundation stock of most bloodlines in America trace back to this little dog imported from England."

And he also adds the Pilot was later beat, and said, "rumors of him being unbeatable must have spread, as Mark Twains death, for he was licked by Daily's Ned...."

Remember, Pilot was not a Colby dog!!!

Go to a shelter and look at the dogs and then ask yourself, "Is this ApBT they are giving away a half Colby/OFRN dog?"
If you say no, you may still have a brain left.

zohawn · 01-16-2013, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goemon

For any who are new to the breed, the above post is only personal opinion, not facts.
Go to any dog registry and they will inform you that the American (pit) Bull Terrier is a dog breed.
To learn about the Old Family Red Nose Strain of ApBT, go to link the OP gave,
or better yet, go to the Old Family Red Nose Registry, Inc., the leading authority on this strain.
It is a small and dedicated community dedicated to preserving the traditional OFRN dogs.
Many years of experience and life long learning will over ride any opinion one may have...and any book written by mankind.

As for Colby dogs, they were not the first family of dogs in America, as the Lightner dogs were around before John P. Colby was in diapers.
Armitage was not a Colby breeder, and Fly of Panama was not a pure Colby dog.
For info on Armitage read the book "30 Years With Fighting Dogs."
He dealt with many different dogs outside of the Colby dogs.
In it he talks of the "Redican dogs, that have no relation to the dogs I fought later."
I also read many names in that book, and the Colby name isn't mentioned more than a few times.

My point is that even the Colby family has never made the claims others are giving in their place.
It is inaccurate. Story may sound all good, but that's all it is, a story.

As for Pilot, who was imported from England and belonged to Cockney Charlie Lloyd:
"Pilot was acclaimed the best dog in the world and many breeders bred their bitches to him. The foundation stock of most bloodlines in America trace back to this little dog imported from England."

And he also adds the Pilot was later beat, and said, "rumors of him being unbeatable must have spread, as Mark Twains death, for he was licked by Daily's Ned...."

Remember, Pilot was not a Colby dog!!!

Go to a shelter and look at the dogs and then ask yourself, "Is this ApBT they are giving away a half Colby/OFRN dog?"
If you say no, you may still have a brain left.

if you read books from around the 1800s you see very quick that apbt was a title earned and not a breed of dog.

ill agree shit changes as time moves on. for the better? F no.

zohawn · 01-16-2013, 10:12 PM

"It is a small and dedicated community dedicated to preserving the traditional OFRN dogs."

so theyre matching dogs? if not how can they preserve anything that has to do with apbt's, regardless of strain?

Goemon (Got the BAN STICK) · 01-16-2013, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zohawn

"It is a small and dedicated community dedicated to preserving the traditional OFRN dogs."

so theyre matching dogs? if not how can they preserve anything that has to do with apbt's, regardless of strain?

Nobody in their right mind would condone the matching of dogs.
But when standards are set is it not best to not step out of bounds as many of the registries have done?
But through strict confirmation and known working dogs by private individuals this strain can be preserved.

Saint Francis · 01-17-2013, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zohawn

"It is a small and dedicated community dedicated to preserving the traditional OFRN dogs."

so theyre matching dogs? if not how can they preserve anything that has to do with apbt's, regardless of strain?

Why would they have to match bulldogs in order to simply preserve their existence? Preserving the strain and preserving the act are two different things altogether. "TRADITIONAL" as in true OFRN, NOT the XXXXLLLL dogs that happen to have a red nose and are billed as such. We all know that matching continues today within the ENTIRE breed, let's not kid ourselves, but that is not the intent of the OFRNR.

KMdogs · 01-17-2013, 12:15 AM

An apbt is a pit dog and the title is simple, the name represents all there is needed.. Regardless of what strain, sub, etc there is only one method of preserving a pit dog and its black and white.. All bulldogs or bandogs until otherwise proven as,you guessed it.. An American Pit Bull Terrier..

Conformation means shit when it comes to these dogs, unless you are putting your stock in registries or meaning staffies.. Conformation follows function and ability which is part of purpose and designed purpose, function and ability for a pit dog is... Basic genetic foundation..

Now if you want to talk traditional stock Bulldogs, bull baiters... Old world Bulldog... High end Bulldog of today.. The function changes the foundation of does not.. Conformation does not define, it follows. A dog can be 100 percent correct physically, if it cannot perform in respected abilities for such functions instilled and designed for breed the dog is deemed useless to the degree of working standards.. When talking working animals and stock, THIS is the hard line, factor and dividing point that defines.. Otherwise, all mute and wash

zohawn · 01-17-2013, 12:24 AM

im not saying i condone anything. im just stating fact. i just thought your words came off funny i guess.

km explained it better, i shouldve stayed in school i guess

JMAN2013 · 01-17-2013, 12:52 AM

firehazard do you ever get fed up with trying to set the apbt community straight? or are you some kind of superhero whos not going to stop until the world understand the difference between species -subspecies -strains -and substrains lol i cannot look as your frustration mounts. Goemon tried to say that you insinuated that armitage was running pure colby stock when actually you said near. lol which is true.

KMdogs · 01-17-2013, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goemon

Nobody in their right mind would condone the matching of dogs.
But when standards are set is it not best to not step out of bounds as many of the registries have done?
But through strict confirmation and known working dogs by private individuals this strain can be preserved.

Strict conformation does not preserve anything but the appearance of a dog, would just be a Stafforshire under the APBT name by the registry and if you believe a Colby dog, OFRN, etc can be preserved just simply based on how its bred and not what it can do.. Well, that explains the thought.

Working dogs is a great latter, however if you want to preserve any bloodline.. OR strain.. OR substrain.. However you want to view it, than the function has to remain intact in order to still fit in all sense of the Pit Dog. Otherwise, as mentioned already..

KMdogs · 01-17-2013, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMAN2013

firehazard do you ever get fed up with trying to set the apbt community straight? or are you some kind of superhero whos not going to stop until the world understand the difference between species -subspecies -strains -and substrains lol i cannot look as your frustration mounts. d***face tried to say that you insinuated that armitage was running pure colby stock when actually you said near. lol which is true.

Attempting to educate all is a lost cause just as world peace is a lost cause.. You can take literature and two individuals, you will have two different interpretations of said literature due to the opinion of what each believes the author meant. Look at the Bible and how many religions has founded its beliefs on the same general belief, however will argue tooth and nail their way is correct and everyone else is wrong.

The proof for this case is in the long history of which, unfortunately, can still be interpreted to ones likings..

Either way my point is, educate and those that have the willingness or the ones who can admit defeat are those whom have open minds and the hunger to strive forward with knowledge and betterment.

zohawn · 01-17-2013, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMdogs

Attempting to educate all is a lost cause just as world peace is a lost cause.. You can take literature and two individuals, you will have two different interpretations of said literature due to the opinion of what each believes the author meant. Look at the Bible and how many religions has founded its beliefs on the same general belief, however will argue tooth and nail their way is correct and everyone else is wrong.

The proof for this case is in the long history of which, unfortunately, can still be interpreted to ones likings..

Either way my point is, educate and those that have the willingness or the ones who can admit defeat are those whom have open minds and the hunger to strive forward with knowledge and betterment.

these are the only people who ever reach Truth

Goemon (Got the BAN STICK) · 01-17-2013, 02:05 AM

Bottom line: I will not let a younger generation who was not even born when these dogs could legally prove their value
for one instant discredit the knowledge the of men who have 70+ years experience with this breed,
who have passed on the knowledge learned, not only in their time, but from the generation before them.
Men who have known all the great names in the bulldog world.....

Saint Francis · 01-17-2013, 02:08 AM

Those seeking knowledge must also choose the educator wisely so the wisdom learned is of the truth