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Old 03-06-2008, 03:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
 

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Starting my Own Bloodline

I was wondering if there was anyone else out there starting there own bloodline out there that I could get advice from. I am currently in the process of starting my own bloodline. The name of my bloodline is going to be called KALEB after my only stud I have. I am registering all my dogs through CKC & APBR. Thanks for all advice that may be helpful in advance....
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
 

sw_df27 has much to be proud of
sw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud ofsw_df27 has much to be proud of
I think there is another thread on this somewhere.......... do you know how long it really takes to start your own bloodline? Is your stud titled in anything? what lines do you plan on starting with? are you gonna be keeping all the pups until you get your own line which could be 10 yrs down the line if your breeding females after 2 yrs of age.................
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Old 03-07-2008, 02:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
 

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I dont think it will take 10years down the line....But thanks for the input.....
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Old 03-07-2008, 03:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Yea, I agree with SW. It takes time! You can call your bloodline KALEB but if, KALEB only shows up in one generation, and not many, then you are sort of false claiming. Your KALEB bloodline is really whatever bloodline Kaleb consist of. For example, my AmBully is RE/Powerlines if I breed him with my female who is RE it is sort of unethical to call it my bloodline when in actuality the pups would be RE/Powerlines. I'm not downing you or anything and to be honest I still consider myself a "rookie" but after all my research I do know that it takes time. Also, could you answer some of these questions?

1. Do you have in your head what you want your dog's physical and mental traits to be like? If so, are you familiar with breed specifications?
2. Have you gotten your dogs health checked?
3. Are you in it for the money or are you in it to better the breed? Because, honestly you need to expect to lose more money than gained.
4. Have you ever whelped or even experienced one?
5. Do you know your dog's pedigree?
6. Has your stud or your bitch won any awards? Have they been shown? Do what your name states "Showoff" those beautiful pits. Much can be learned from other breeders at shows.
7. Are you willing to cur any deformed/sickly pups? (Which you shouldn't even have if done and researched bloodlines right)
8. Do you have prospective GOOD homes for 8-12 pups?
9. etc, etc, etc.......

And honestly, I question you about their pedigree because CKC and APBR registered dogs are not recognized with "prestige" in the American Pitbull Terrier world. I've been to the APBR website and even experimented with my friend's "Pit/mix" with a tail that comes up behind his back (which is a default!) and all I had to do was take pictures and send what I think was 15 dollars. Now my friend has a reg "Pit/mix" as being an APBT. THIS IS NOT BETTERING THE BREED!

Now, not saying that you are doing this, just saying EXPECT criticism from fellow APBT and AmBULLY men and women. I myself hope to one day become an established breeder of both APBT and AmBullies and establish my own bloodlines. But first I will learn EVERYTHING I can possibly know. I wish you the best on this endeaver because I have the same dreams.
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Old 03-07-2008, 06:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yep all of the above. you can not just call the dogs by you chosen name and make it your bloodline. It takes years and years for the fact that you have to keep dogs of your own and wait for them to mature and then keep dogs from their litters and so forth and so on. It takes many many generations before the line is "yours".
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Old 03-07-2008, 07:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Wow thats a HUGE task. First and foremost you can't just create a bloodline. That takes YEARS AND YEARS of consistent breeding and achieving the same charateristics in your offspring time after time. Heck just because you put your name on them doesn't mean a thing because you didn't do the breeding. It wasn't your time and effort and thinking that went into producing the dogs you currently have. Also a line, not bloodline, but line isnt even recognized until you have a pedigree with your "name" in it in all 4 generations, top and bottom. So just that right there would take at best 8 years and thats consistently breeding 2yr old females!

The kennel part is easy, get a license and you are an official "kennel". It seems anyone with multiple dogs on the same yard is a kennel. But your main goal should be to produce dogs with tittles and quality working dogs.

Hope this helps.


And From Patch

I'm pretty sure their is a HUGE post on this forum as their is on most about ethical breeding if not I'll stick one up.

Quote:
First off are your dogs registered with ADBA or UKC?... if they are not reg with either than they should not be bred as those are the only two reputable APBT registries.

It is also a good idea to get a mentor who knows the breed and what they are doing to guide you. Go to shows and working events and network with different people in the breed and learn. From this post I can honestly say you probably should not even consider breeding for at least another year or so until you can learn more and do it properly. That is no offense to you. I think it is great that you are here asking questions and trying to learn.

One very important question I have for you.... Why do you want to breed???
If it is just "to make your own line" than that is not enough and you need to really reconsider IMO since the breed faces BSL in so many areas and too many die in shelters unless you are doing it for the right reasons and the right way please don't breed.

Ok I'll brake it down a little more. Putting your name in front of a dog's name on its papers does not make that dog from "your" bloodline. It makes it your dog with your kennel name and that's it.

Right now from reading your first post it sounds like you may have a bunch of dogs you like the look and color of but you don't know about their bloodlines at all. You need to research their Bloodlines and see what you really have... you can go on pedigree online and try to research or post the ped here and on other forums and see if anyone can help you figure it all out.

Creating a line is not just slapping your name on a dog and breeding it to any other dog. As already said it takes years

Not only should you research the lines and find the ones you want to work with but you also need to study and learn every aspect of the standard to see if your dogs meet it and are worthy of being bred. You also should be getting health testing through orgs like Penn Hip and OFA to see if the dogs are physically sound. Conformation and working titles as well as TT CGC and TDIs are also a HUGE plus in a breeding program and prove a dog's worthiness.

Link to the standard for ADBA and UKC and other great info
www.apbtconformation.com

After several years of selective breeding you can then start to produce your own line until then like I said they are your dogs NOT your line


Check out this link to another thread

http://www.gopitbull.com/pitbullforums/bloodline-discussion/3460-how-start-my-own-kennel-bloodline.html?highlight=bloodline
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Old 03-08-2008, 03:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 03-08-2008, 03:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
 

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Thanks I understand what all are you are saying here and learned a few things from a few of your posts that I didnt already know. I will take it all into consideration. I bought my dogs without papers so I have to go through the process of registering them and so forth.
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Old 03-08-2008, 03:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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If you go into breeding with the sole plan to create "your" own bloodline, then you are going into breeding for very wrong reasons. It's not about personal goals and reputation, it's about preserving and improving the breed. Today, it seems that more and more people are out to get famous through the dogs. There is a sort of "rep" one seems to get by being a pit bull breeder, and this is unfortunate because it is the breed that suffers.

The two registries you speak of mean nothing in the world of dog breeding- they are nothing more than glorified printing presses. If you acquired dogs with no papers from reputable sources, then you have no guarantee the dog is what you think it is. Because of this, you have no history to base your future breedings on.

My advice is to hold off on the idea of breeding until you've learned more. I suggest attending shows (Sanctioned by reputable registries) and talking to people- perhaps even pick yourself up a mentor who can guide you through the ins and outs of the breed.
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Old 03-08-2008, 03:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
 

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Thats where I think people are wrong. They say that oh a dog doesnt have papers so you cant tell what it is. Even if a dog has papers from UKC or ADBA that doesnt mean its legit still. How do you think people get these massive pitbulls? Its not by breeding just pitbulls together. My buddy who is helping me out and knows a ton about pitbulls works at a vet and he has seen some crazy stuff in his time. People mix pitbulls and bull mastiffs and so forth. People these days seem to only care about a pit having a huge head and being huge itself. If a pitbull is full blooded and weighing 125+ pounds then it has been mixed somewhere along and people have just used another dogs papers to say its the father or so on. My second argument is I am not into pitbulls to start my own bloodline. While that is what I wouldnt mind doing that is not at all what I am into pits for. My pits are very well trained pits and very sociable with everyone including kids. I want to spread that to other homes so that they get great tempered dogs that can actually be called a family dog and people wont fear it. I take my dogs out in public all the time and let them associate with all people. If people wanna pet them I let them because if you dont socialize the dogs with all types of humans they will most in likely become vicious towards people if all they are around is you and your spouse. Thirdly all dog registries to me are just a slab of paper. Everyone says this paper company is better than the other and this one will make your dog worth more than the other one. I am NOT in it for the money and I want to breed dogs that are affordable and you dont have to take a loan out just to buy a dog. I want to make someones next great family pet an affordable pet.
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Old 03-08-2008, 03:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Yes, paper hanging occurs in all registries. Which is why you need to acquire dogs from reputable sources if you want any guarantee of what you are getting. But registries that allow you "prove" your dog's heritage with a few pictures and a handwritten pedigree are catering to backyard breeders and others who have no idea just what is behind their dogs.

There is already a surplus of sound, friendly dogs that would make any family proud. Most of them, unfortunately, don't make it out of the shelter alive. With our vast overpopulation problem, breeding to produce pets should be on the very bottom of your list.
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Old 03-08-2008, 04:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
 

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breeding is not on the top of my list at all. I want to show my dogs off but I dont want my dog fixed either. I know paper hanging occurs and most pitbulls shouldnt weigh more than I believe it is 75 pds. is what it says in my magazine I have. So if they say the father is a solid 125pds. either they have had that dog on steroids or there is some paper hanging going on prob. and neither I approve of. Search google and you see what I would call overweight pits all over the web registered with ADBA, UKC, AKC, & CKC. So to me the company doesnt mean much to me. It is just a sheet of paper that says oh your dog is this. I however am not making up a pedigree for a dog. I am going to start the pedigree of my dog from the time I register it and after getting 4 generations I can transfer it from CKC to ADBA or where ever if I wanted to. I think all dogs should be registered to somewhere and shouldnt have to be fixed. Thats like saying your birth certificate was lost so since they dont know exactly who your mother and father are you should be fixed or like saying since you are adopted you should have been fixed.
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Old 03-08-2008, 05:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Im sorry to say this, but you sound ignorant. Now don't take it personal, because ignorant means you just don't know, and some of the stuff you are saying shows that you just have not done any research. When you speak on things that you are ignorant of as if you KNOW it to be right, that just makes you sound stupid! The large APBTs you speak of are registered as APBTs with the UKC and ADBA but in actuality they are a new breed called American Bullies. The AmBullies are APBT outcrossed with AmStaffs. Now if you do your RESEARCH then you will see that AmStaffs and APBT were once the SAME breed! In the early 1900s the UKC began reg APBTs and then the AKC began reg APBT as AmStaffs. So you had APBTs and AmStaffs dual reg as two diff breeds. However, the AKC closed there stud books and you were not able to reg your APBT as an AmStaff anymore. AKC=show dogs and UKC/ADBA=sporting dogs. Of course now you have dogs being bred for the pit and others for looks and conformation, so throughout the years the two diff breeds began to take there own characteristics. AmStaffs being larger, people and dog friendly, and somewhat bullier? APBTs were bred based on there performance n the ring, strength, agility, "gameness"... Some breeders did continue to keep there dogs reg with both. You began to see pit dogs have litters that went on to own the rings. lol. Now, you have in the 1990s the founders of RE and other bully lines began outcrossing APBTs and AmStaffs that were reg as both breeds (which is really the same breed) and out comes these BULLY PITS we see today (A.K.A. American Bully). I mean pit fighting is illegal so kennels began breeding for looks and took on the American logic that bigger is better or bigger looks better. We now see these non ppl or dog agressive AmBullies with a lil less "working" drive...

On the other hand, the kennels need to stop calling these AmBullies APBTs even though they are reg as being so. Yes, technically they are if you look at their peds, but as far as the breed specifications they do now adhere to, therefore NEW BREED. That's like calling a Doberman and a Miniature Doberman the same breed. NO. Same lineage, but not same breed. Kudos to the ABKC and RE (Elite Edge) for recognizing this and pushing for breeders to switch registeries...

And STOP saying APBTs are viscious towards humans!!!! REAL APBTs are not! It was bred out of them! You are speaking of "pits" not APBTs... Look at Vick's dogs, how many out of how many were adopted? Yes, we should socialize APBTs but they are not naturally people aggresive.

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Old 03-08-2008, 06:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by showoffpits
breeding is not on the top of my list at all. I want to show my dogs off but I dont want my dog fixed either. I know paper hanging occurs and most pitbulls shouldnt weigh more than I believe it is 75 pds. is what it says in my magazine I have. So if they say the father is a solid 125pds. either they have had that dog on steroids or there is some paper hanging going on prob. and neither I approve of. Search google and you see what I would call overweight pits all over the web registered with ADBA, UKC, AKC, & CKC. So to me the company doesnt mean much to me. It is just a sheet of paper that says oh your dog is this. I however am not making up a pedigree for a dog. I am going to start the pedigree of my dog from the time I register it and after getting 4 generations I can transfer it from CKC to ADBA or where ever if I wanted to. I think all dogs should be registered to somewhere and shouldnt have to be fixed. Thats like saying your birth certificate was lost so since they dont know exactly who your mother and father are you should be fixed or like saying since you are adopted you should have been fixed.
I think it is a good idea for you to take a look at the link already posted:
http://www.gopitbull.com/pitbullforu...ight=bloodline
It has a lot of great info

As for paper hanging... well this is why when you want a dog let alone want to start breeding or a bloodline you need to get quality papered brood stock from an ethical responsible breeder

Comparing humans and dog breedings is ridiculous IMO and has nothing to do with the topic.

If you plan to be a breeder and do it the right way you will need to do a lot more research and I think by starting with dogs that aren't papered with a reputable registry, titled or health tested you have already stacked the odds against people thinking you will be an ethical breeder.

I hope you take your time and really get involved in other aspects of the breed and researching before deciding to breed

Knowing the pedigree and what is behind the dogs is a HUGE part of breeding properly.

see also:
http://www.apbtconformation.com
www.workingpitbull.com
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Old 03-08-2008, 06:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
 

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You guys are taking this totally wrong I am officially outta this thread. You just dont understand where I am coming from. I am not here to make money or anything. The thing with the lack of health checks my dogs get health checks. I also would love to get a dog from a "better" registry or "better known" registry but I just cant justify in spending $1500+ in a dog when my dogs will prob. turn out looking just as good just lack of that paper.
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