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Old 03-10-2009, 10:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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hell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninja
merle

ok thanks to Cane i am now aware of the fact that blue was not an original apbt color but a staffy color. so it has been pretty much bred into the breed but there is still some amount of staffy blood in a blue pitbull...i'm assuming very very little if the staffy hasnt been in the bloodline for a looong while.


any way take the merle gene people are breeding what they call rare merle pitbulls (but its actually american bullies.) do you think merle will ever become an exeptable breed color if people keep breedin american bullies and american pits with catahoulas like it has been with the blue in apbts i mean i personally would call a blue apbt a purebred apbt if its blue as long as it comes from a reputable kennel and a staffy blood hasnt been in the bloodline since the foundation dogs (this would have to be a kennel that has not just recently been established. i personally do not think this will happen because it comes with health issues but how do you all feel is it possible merle gene will ever become an exeptable breed standard i believe i the ukc breed standards it says merle gene is not acceptable.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I do not think it will or should happen.
BTW here is another article on Merle and the APBT

American Pit Bull Terrier Network Merle and the Pit Bull
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Interesting article, I just wonder how this applies to other breeds. Traits such as odd-eye are not a fault in other breeds, which leads me to believe that if this odd eye really affects vision with a medical condition, it would be a fault, as an unhealthy animal can not be shown, and should not be bred. The merle pattern itself is acceptable in many breeds, and is not a fault, or associated with genetic ailments. Is it something about the APBT that makes this pattern a health concern? I know that many merle APBTs do have health issues, but couldn't this be as easily attributed to poor breeding practices as to the genetic pattern? I am sure there are healthy merle APBTs out there.

I am not in any way saying that the color should be acceptable for conformation, since it came by hanging papers, and therefore this behavior should not be encouraged, but I think that the health concerns come from the breeding practices of the BYBs that create these pups, not the color itself. Also, I firmly believe it is possible for the canine "slippery genome" to be responsible for a spontaneous new color, but this is improbable in the case of merle, since if someone believes they have a fluke full blooded merle APBT, wouldn't it be advantageous for them to have the dog genetically tested, screened, and its line followed to see if it is a natural occurance in the breed, and not the result of a mix and hanging papers? I feel that responsible breeders would welcome the scrutiny, and since this hasn't happened, to my knowledge, no responsible breeder has produced a merle in their line that they can say 100% has no other breed crossed in.

Bottom line, breed standards exist for a reason, and if you feel you can legitimately question the standard, go ahead, many people do, but be prepared to have to prove your integrity beyond a shadow of a doubt.

That's just my 2 cents.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I dont buy into what cane says staffy came from apbt so they had to get the gene from somewhere.... Blue is an apbt color IMO. im not here to argue about that though.

As far as Merle i believe it either comes from an outside source such as catahoulas or it is due to massive inbreeding for imperfect traits. It shouldnt be allowed as an acceptable coat coloring.

I remember seeing a video i forgot what it was it was a bad one like hood dawgs or something like that. This guy had a litter of puppies and they were 7 generations of inbreeding (why he did this ...because hes ignorant.) he thought his litter was the he had 5 puppies all with fluffy tails HAHAHA two had different colored eyes, 1 was merle, and the other was jsut super scrawny. He was gonna keep the merle and the different color eyed ones to be inbred again. It made me sad jsut watching it. He has had 7 generations of experience and hes still and idiot. saying his bloodline was "redboy/ jocko talkaboutum"

Last edited by dan'sgrizz; 03-10-2009 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
 

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Blue can also show up in apbt breedings as well without staff blood mixed in ... The color Blue is a dilute of black... It is possible for 2 black game-dogs or a dog who carries that gene without ANY staffy blood mixed in to throw a blue dog. It's not as common as most people would think but it does happen so why I agree with cane to a certain extent .. I also know for a fact that a black dog can throw a blue dog.... Genetics do not lie ...

Last edited by Sadie; 03-10-2009 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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hell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninja
hell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninja
actually breeds where merle is acceptable like aussies and catouhulas and whatever other breed may have merle do come across health problems on behalf of the merle gene. its not just the apbt.

merle has never been in the breed nore ever even consider to be mixed in with this breed not until recently when bybs decided to mic calahoutas and pits to get a new funky color to deem "rare" and make money out of it. it was probobly just an expiriment in the first place to see if these new odd colored pits would be good enough to pass off as a rare purebred and make dough off of it. if you truely have a pure bred american pitbull terrier from the purist bloodlines you can find there is no way merle would ever show up.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yah i dont see any merle colbys walking around lol
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hell no they wont go View Post
actually breeds where merle is acceptable like aussies and catouhulas and whatever other breed may have merle do come across health problems on behalf of the merle gene. its not just the apbt.

merle has never been in the breed nore ever even consider to be mixed in with this breed not until recently when bybs decided to mic calahoutas and pits to get a new funky color to deem "rare" and make money out of it. it was probobly just an expiriment in the first place to see if these new odd colored pits would be good enough to pass off as a rare purebred and make dough off of it. if you truely have a pure bred american pitbull terrier from the purist bloodlines you can find there is no way merle would ever show up.
What I'm saying is that it is unlikely that this trait spontaneously developed on its own, but it can't be ruled out, and if someone thinks their APBT developed this gene without crossbreeding, they should come forward and let the kennel clubs study them and decide, and since that doesn't seem to be happening, no one feels THAT confident that their merle is a full APBT. I just feel that the evolution of dogs is so peculiar, that nothing can be ruled out, look at the Lundehund, its unimaginable that this dog developed, but its terrain called for changes, and its genome obliged.
Norwegian Lundehund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I doubt that this has happened with merle and the APBT, but rather than argue with someone who swears they have a pure APBT merle, I would think its easier just to tell them if they feel that strongly, petition the registries, open their lines and kennel to scrutiny etc. I'm saying it can happen, it most likely just hasn't.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Yes the dogs "double stacked" genes or whatever they are allows them to change much more from generation to generation. I would bet the Lundehund toes are because of a very small bredding population somewhere in its history. Alot of genetic abnormalities happen like that when there is a "bottle kneck" in the genetic population.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Merle is not necessarily an American Bully color. Just because a dog is mixed doesn't make it Ambully. I think it is very possible that Merle is a recessive gene brought out due to inbreeding especially because of the health issues that follow. But because of the health issues it is a color we don't need ( sad to me because I think it is gorgeous). As for Blue Sadie is right it is a dilute of black and very well can come from APBT lines not just Amstaff lines.

Here are some pics of Merle because I know alot of newer people don't know the color.
To add this guy raises Merles and has never had any of the health issues that usually come with this color. Tho he also doesn't breed Merle to Merle I believe.


Tocho Blue Merle

Raja Chocolate Merle



Wanted to add Merle in the APBT is more a pattern than a color The blue part or chocolate or whatever color just goes with the pattern.


So my question is is it likely that a pattern has been brought out from inbreeding?
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Last edited by American_Pit13; 03-11-2009 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:01 AM   #11 (permalink)
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WOW ive never wanted a merle dog SO much.... lol

Merle is a Darker colored spots ontop of a lighter shade of the same color or vis-versa correct?
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:04 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Spots/patches

I edited out the Merle in danes I was thinking about Harlequin that color is hard to breed lol.
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:08 AM   #13 (permalink)
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hell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninja
hell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninja
Quote:
Originally Posted by american_pit13 View Post
Merle is not necessarily an American Bully color. Just because a dog is mixed doesn't make it Ambully. I think it is very possible that Merle is a recessive gene brought out due to inbreeding especially because of the health issues that follow. But because of the health issues it is a color we don't need ( sad to me because I think it is gorgeous). As for Blue Sadie is right it is a dilute of black and very well can come from APBT lines not just Amstaff lines.

Here are some pics of Merle because I know alot of newer people don't know the color.
To add this guy raises Merles and has never had any of the health issues that usually come with this color. Tho he also doesn't breed Merle to Merle I believe.


Tocho Blue Merle

Raja Chocolate Merle



Wanted to add Merle in the APBT is more a pattern than a color The blue part or chocolate or whatever color just goes with the pattern.


So my question is is it likely that a pattern has been brought out from inbreeding?


oh i have seen plenty of merle apbts. i was never suggesting it was an american bully thing or that mixed breeding between bully breeds and or bully breed none bully breed mixes = american bully they just = a mutt that was bred into a cruel cruel world. thats if you were directing that torwards me or just generally
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
jessica
 
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hell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninja
hell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninjahell no they wont go reputation ninja
the worst part of merle gene is i think it looks s cute in the breed grrrrr.
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I wouldnt mind a sport bred great dane... hog catching savage with merle spots...i hear that because of there long histroy of show breeding they have ALOT of health problems.
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