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Old 07-02-2010, 11:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
 

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Problems with blue pitbulls? And colby?

Hi everyone! I'm new here, anyways, I have a question. Some people say blue pit bulls are "bad." I'm not sure what that means. There was a quote I read that said "All because I own a blue pit bull, it doesn't mean I support them" or something like that. Are blue pit bulls like heathens or something?

Second question is about colby pit bulls. I know they're a piece of history but there was a person that said Colby pit bulls aren't rare, there everywhere. (refering to a 100% colby no mix) I always thought the Colby family didn't really give the dogs out and are extremely picky about it?

Just a few questions. =)
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by Angie View Post
Hi everyone! I'm new here, anyways, I have a question. Some people say blue pit bulls are "bad." I'm not sure what that means. There was a quote I read that said "All because I own a blue pit bull, it doesn't mean I support them" or something like that. Are blue pit bulls like heathens or something?

Second question is about colby pit bulls. I know they're a piece of history but there was a person that said Colby pit bulls aren't rare, there everywhere. (refering to a 100% colby no mix) I always thought the Colby family didn't really give the dogs out and are extremely picky about it?

Just a few questions. =)
i think when the person said "All because I own a blue pit bull, it doesn't mean I support them" i think they meant they own a blue dog but dont condone breeding for the color.

as for the colby thing I cant really help you out on that.

BTW welcome to GP its a great place lots of knowledgeable members.
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Old 07-03-2010, 01:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Many people hate blue APBT's or dislike them because many people breeding them are breeding for color and they tend to have health issues because of that. The second reason many of the blue APBt's you see are mixed breed dogs and Bullies and they are a totally different breed from the APBT. There are good and correct blue APBT's but anymore they seem to be rare since most people prefer the bully looking dogs and they became a huge fad.

Colby is an old bloodline of dogs and I am sure someone knows more about the bloodline than I do but I have a OFR/Colby mix and I know many people have bred the colby bloodline it is not top secret. However I think they did preserve some of the old dogs and they did not get bred to death by other people. I remember reading it somewhere and I am sure someone will be able to talk more about that bloodline.
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Old 07-03-2010, 02:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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We own blue pits. So far I've never had any type problem with them. I have raised Weims ( I think this is why I was attracted to the Blue coloring of the pit I have) and Solid Black German Sheps. And from this I can tell you that no matter how much you try "sometimes" mother nature can throw any kind of throw back color as a surprise into the mix. I've read all kinds of things about where the blues come from, some far fetched and some that made a little sense. Personally from all I've read NOBODY really knows exactly. But I tend to agree with this just from what I've learned in breeding horses and other dog breeds.
Red nose pits were breed in Ireland
and Black/Blue nose pit bulls were
breed in England

There is a recessive gene in dogs called a dilution gene. If both parents have the dilution gene, and it goes to the puppies, it dilutes (fades) colors. Brown dogs look fawn (red) colored while black dogs look (blue) gray. It is not a defect, just a gene pair that causes it. If your dog did not have a dilution gene, it would be black.

No one has a definite answer on this issue, however we do know that blue is a dilution from Black. So many people think that blue nose pit bulls came from different lines of black pit bulls.

Actually if you speak with older breeders and such the blue pit bulls happened by accident. At one point they thought it was something to a genetic fault. But it most often occured when a black and a red pit bull were bred together that is why a lot of blue pit bulls have like red tints when they are in the light
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Old 07-03-2010, 02:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by coppermare View Post
Red nose pits were breed in Ireland
and Black/Blue nose pit bulls were
breed in England
But it most often occured when a black and a red pit bull were bred together that is why a lot of blue pit bulls have like red tints when they are in the light
Can someone verify these remarks? Just curious.
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Old 07-03-2010, 02:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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The only ones I can verify are the dilution and color breeding genetics part of it. The rest, I just research and read, read, read. I'm learning about this breed. I research, read and have learned there must be five million opinions, arguments and beliefs about this breed. I just do what I do with life, believe half of it, use common sense on most of it, and take what I need and leave the rest.
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Old 07-03-2010, 03:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Yes a blue can be born as a throw back and it be a dilute. Most blue dogs and why they are so hated is from the bully fad, not throw backs. Now Blue seems to be the most popular color now a days with back yard breeders and why you see so many. You also started to see many bullies look like Neo mastiffs and you can just tell what they bred into them to get the color.
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Old 07-03-2010, 04:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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I own and have owned linebred colby dogs for close to 15 years now... The colby family sells dogs to the public, not sure of their prices these days though... they aren't rare by any means but there are a select group of people who have been fanciers of that line for many years, myself being one of them..lol

There are several kennels out there that have "pure" colby dogs, do a google search for Colby pitbulls and you'll see several kennels, including the Colby family website. They are not as picky as you would think on who gets their dogs, but they definetly aren't free or everyone's cup of tea so to speak... Personally I will ALWAYS have colby dogs, ALWAYS... I even have the colby blood all thru my other lines as well these days... LOVE colby dogs!!
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I own and have owned linebred colby dogs for close to 15 years now... The colby family sells dogs to the public, not sure of their prices these days though... they aren't rare by any means but there are a select group of people who have been fanciers of that line for many years, myself being one of them..lol

There are several kennels out there that have "pure" colby dogs, do a google search for Colby pitbulls and you'll see several kennels, including the Colby family website. They are not as picky as you would think on who gets their dogs, but they definetly aren't free or everyone's cup of tea so to speak... Personally I will ALWAYS have colby dogs, ALWAYS... I even have the colby blood all thru my other lines as well these days... LOVE colby dogs!!
Is it safe to say that you really love the Colby bloodline? LOL
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Yes a blue can be born as a throw back and it be a dilute. Most blue dogs and why they are so hated is from the bully fad, not throw backs. Now Blue seems to be the most popular color now a days with back yard breeders and why you see so many. You also started to see many bullies look like Neo mastiffs and you can just tell what they bred into them to get the color.
Was just wondering why you continue to refer to bullys as a "fad"? Here is the definition of fad...

A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze.

It seems as if you are implying that the American Bully is something that will be here for a brief period of time and then wear off and dissapear...just curious...
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Was just wondering why you continue to refer to bullys as a "fad"? Here is the definition of fad...

A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze.

It seems as if you are implying that the American Bully is something that will be here for a brief period of time and then wear off and dissapear...just curious...
I think she meant the popularity with BYBs and people who are ignorant of the breed and are willing to pay $3,000 for a "rare blue pitbull". Once the rare blue craze dies down, and those BYBs move on to the next fad, the Am Bully as a breed will probably start to make faster progress towards a solid breed standard, working out the health issues from so much line breeding with no health or temperment testing (Juan Gotti 10+ times in a ped lol). In my lifetime I have seen many dog breed fads, GSDs, Rotties, a few waves of dalmatians, etc. During those fad periods BYBs bred tons of these dogs, and sold without any sort of screening. These dogs filled up rescues and shelters as bullies do now. If you think about the sheer number of bullies out there today, can you even imagine the small percentage that will even have a home next year? The members here with bullies are quite sadly a tiny drop in a large bucket, and most bullies aren't as lucky. They are the current image dog, and soon another breed will take over and be overbred and exploited.
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Very good posting floor candy...thank you...as far as the American Bully filling shelters due to over breeding...I am not sure what area you live in...but where were from I commonly check the local shelter to help out and even check the craigslist to see whats going on out there...I have yet to run across an American Bully...but I run across "Pit Bulls" on craigslist about 4 x a day...looking to be re-homed...or "adopted"...this breed seems to be way more of a BYB issue in my eyes...I am very passionate about both breeds, and I am against the BYB epidimic but I like to look at it from both ends of the table ya know
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Old 07-03-2010, 06:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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I see many large blue dogs at the shelter, generally bullies or bullies crossed with APBTs. I see many many "blue pit bulls" being rehomed on CL at ages of 6 months - 2 years due to allergies, moving, etc. Another big trend I see are brindle bullies listed as Cane Corsos (I guess that makes them more adoptable to the pit haters?). When I went to a local shelter looking for a pup a month or so ago, the whole place was filled with bullies, bully/pits, boxer bullies, and "cane corsos". If you look at the websites often you see these dogs listed as ridiculous things, weimeraner mixes, boxer mixes, terriers, etc, but going to the shelter so many had the bully look, size etc. It's so sad what BYBs do to breed after breed. It's sad when good owners have to pay the price losing sickly dogs after long battles with illnesses that good breeding could have prevented, or by having to put down a beloved family pet because of a temperment problem that should never have been allowed to flourish in the lines. While I can't wait for the "pit bull" craze to be over, I feel bad for the next breed that gets damaged by a craze, because BYBs will always pop up.
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Old 07-03-2010, 06:12 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I see many large blue dogs at the shelter, generally bullies or bullies crossed with APBTs. I see many many "blue pit bulls" being rehomed on CL at ages of 6 months - 2 years due to allergies, moving, etc. Another big trend I see are brindle bullies listed as Cane Corsos (I guess that makes them more adoptable to the pit haters?). When I went to a local shelter looking for a pup a month or so ago, the whole place was filled with bullies, bully/pits, boxer bullies, and "cane corsos". If you look at the websites often you see these dogs listed as ridiculous things, weimeraner mixes, boxer mixes, terriers, etc, but going to the shelter so many had the bully look, size etc. It's so sad what BYBs do to breed after breed. It's sad when good owners have to pay the price losing sickly dogs after long battles with illnesses that good breeding could have prevented, or by having to put down a beloved family pet because of a temperment problem that should never have been allowed to flourish in the lines. While I can't wait for the "pit bull" craze to be over, I feel bad for the next breed that gets damaged by a craze, because BYBs will always pop up.


I am extremely saddened by this...I am very glad you didn't mistake my postings as argumentative...i am hopeful but doubtful that this situation will ever come to a real solution...lets all just try and do everything we can do to prevent these situations from arising!!!
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Old 07-03-2010, 10:01 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Post Hope this helps

There is no "rare" pit bull color. And the color of a dog's nose does not indicate it is a certain "type" of pit bull. Color is simply an expression of genetic code concerning coat color.

It might surprise you to learn that today the so called "rare blue pit bull" is in fact not rare, and not a pit bull! The blue color is a dilute of black, and occurs in the American Staffordshire breed. How it popped up in those dogs is any one's guess. Blue is a mastiff color, not a bulldog color. (There are no blue English bulldogs, but the English mastiff did used to come in blue, as do some other mastiff breeds). (Diane Jessup)

Here is what Louis Colby has to say about the "blue" dogs, and I can't think of any better authority: "As a boy growing up, and listening to multiple conversations between my father and visitors such as Collagan, Heinzl Vose, Donovan, and other dogmen from all over the country..never did the word blue appear. There never was a blue Colby dog in my father's yard, nor mine.To my knowledge there was never a blue colored dog reported in any match or sporting event."


Colby dogs are a picture of perfection, in my opinion. John Colby bred dogs from 1889 to 1941, boasting close to 5000 dogs in his lifetime. When Colby dogs were first becoming popular, dog men of the day were a very close-knit group of people and only passed dogs down to family members etc; however, John Colby broke that closeness and tradition when he began offering stud services and puppies to the "common” person. Until Colby, dog men kept their dog's pedigree a guarded secret. John Colby was a charter member of the Staffordshire Club of America; in addition, he also had a hand in establishing it. The infamous Colby's "Primo" was used as a standard for the breed when the AKC finally accepted the breed on its studbooks. Colby's wife was president of the club for a period and she worked with the AKC during the screening process when they accepted the APBT into their studbooks under the name Staffordshire bull terrier. Louis Colby, one of John Colby's sons, continued the work his father started with the breed and still produces some of the greatest APBTs I have ever seen. The Colby dogs of today that Louis produces can trace their lineage all the way back to his father's original dogs, first bred in the 1800s.



Colby Dogs


The following is a tribute to one of the greatest strains alive today.

The Colby Line
written by By Indian Sonny

Mr John P Colby was an active breeder for many years and produced some of the best dogs of his time. Much of his foundation stock was from the Gas House and Burke strains, as were the dogs of many other breeders. The difference in the quality of the dogs Mr Colby produced was the result of breeding principles he employed. Also, Mr Colby in my opinion possessed a very important attribute, which I refer to as a gift.

Mr Colby practised a simplified version of genetics, Best to Best, selective breeding

Best to Best does not mean performing dogs alone. It entails all aspects of the dogs, from performance to pedigree. The most obvious qualities would be gameness, biting power, talent, stamina and a great bloodline. A bloodline is the result of a breeders influence.

Over the years dogs bred by Mr Colby began to exhibit physical and mental characteristics such as conformation, colour and gameness which distinguished them. These dogs were then referred to as Colby Dogs. Thus we have the Colby Bloodline. People were proud to say, "This here is a pure Colby dog". This sounds simple; and it leads people to ask; why there were not more top breeders? I believe deciding on what is Best to Best is the key.

I'm not sure that every dog Mr Colby bred to was Dead game; and I'm equally sure he did not breed to every Dead game dog he owned. This is where the gift comes in. It seems to be an in-born sense or ability. I believe most outstanding accomplishments have been made by men who were endowed with a gift for their respective fields.

I do not believe that man knows enough about genetics at this time to produce great animals; and he most certainly didn't know enough in the days of Mr Colby. Race horse people spend millions of dollars a year, trying to produce great horses, with only marginal success. Similarly, there is no pattern for producing Great dogs.


The most essential qualities a breeder may possess are; dedication, a gift, a knowledge of Best to Best, and money might come in handy. If a breeder combines these attributes he is likely to produce, with luck, a great strain of dogs.

It doesn't take too much effort to recall the great Colby dogs of the past. These dogs were bred from the pit and for the pit.

But all of this brings us to a very important question; When a strain of dogs that were once highly regarded, such as Colby's, stops producing consistently good pit dogs, is this strain still to be considered good? I have heard people say, "I know he's a cur, but the blood is there". While this is true in many cases, I wonder how long we can continue to breed to curs and hope to produce game pit dogs.

What is good blood and how long will it remain good if we continue to breed to dogs, who do not possess the qualities of their ancestors? While great breeders can breed to dogs who themselves do not exhibit good qualities; can the average breeder afford to take this gamble?

I have seen strains of dogs that have not produced dogs fitting this description for many years, and people who are active in the sport refer to them as good blood or good brood stock. Many seem to proceed under the assumption, that once a bloodline is good it remains good forever. Many well-meaning people have continued to breed Colby dogs exclusively, thinking all that was necessary to preserve the quality of the strain, was to breed to a dog that had the name Colby on his pedigree.

I believe that we have to continuously strive to improve the strain, in order to keep it as good as it was or is. It's an accepted theory, that in order for an institution to continue, it must change and continuously seek to improve. To preserve a bloodline, there is more required than just breeding to dogs whose pedigree shows a particular name. Change is required in order to prevent change in the quality of dogs produced. The Colby strain was developed by change.


I have heard people say, that the dogs of yesteryear were gamer than those of today. Could it be, in some cases, because we have tried to play Pat and in doing so have lost ground. The people that have bred Colby dogs exclusively for these many years, thinking they were doing what was best, have perhaps underestimated their own ability to breed good dogs.

Many of them have bred dogs for 40 years or more and could have perhaps contributed much more to their own dogs, by using their own ideas and experience. New ideas are necessary in every field. Sports records are consistently surpassed by those not satisfied with repeating someone else's past performance. Last year's record won't win this year's meet.

Were the dogs of yesteryear really superior? I'm sure many dog men of the past would think we have it too easy, because we don't have to grow secret vegetables and cook our dog's food or boil their water. Penicillin has replaced many old remedies, making better dog care possible. I have read some diets that top dog men used. While some were good, none could compete with any good commercial dog food available in countless supermarkets. The poorest feeder today is able to provide better nutrition than the best feeder of yesteryear. We also have refrigeration and other conveniences.

It is not my intention to criticise old-timers and their methods. How many of us would be feeding as many dogs if we had to cope with the same adverse conditions? I think our mission however, is to pick up where they left off, emulating their objectives rather than their methods. The Colby dogs of the past, fit the description of good blood, as their pit records indicate. The Colby strain was developed on the principle of Best to Best. When that principle is no longer employed there is bound to be a drastic change in quality. In a very short period of time a great strain of dogs can be reduced to a strain that can do no more than refer to their pedigree and say "My great, great, grand-daddy was a pit dog....I think!"


Colby Dog's 20 generation pedigree


American Pit Bull Terriers
The Colby Strain Since 1889
Written By Louis B. Colby



John P. Colby (1875-1941) started his strain of American Pit Bull Terriers in 1889, from the best dogs from England and Ireland brought here by immigrants to such ports as Boston, Ma, Portsmouth, NH and New York. The Colby dogs have been bred continuously since then.

Now, some 116 years later, the strain is still known worldwide for tops in conformation, temperament, and gameness. A "Colby dog" would be readily recognized by breeders anywhere in this country, as well as many foreign countries.

The American Pit Bull Terrier has been referred to in recent years in many ways; some complimentary, some with negative inferences. Yet this breed is probably the most versatile of all breeds.

During the "Great Depression of the 1930's" the American Kennel Club added American Pit Bull Terriers to their registry under the name of Staffordshire Terriers. With this new name for the breed, they needed a standard. After visiting a few kennels, a committee headed by Wilfred T. Brandon chose Colby's Primo as a standard for the breed.

Our family of dogs, the "Colby Dogs", are probably the oldest, purest strain of dogs in the world as attested by the following exhibit. (Click to see 20 Generations dating back the 1890's.

We still breed our dogs for quality. Owning a "Colby dog" is like owning a piece of history.
__________________
Lauren, Kangol, & ABKC CH New Pair of Shox
The Bully Booth- Producer
ABKC- Rep


*If you can't take the heat don't annoy the dragon*

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