difference in Amstaff And APBT - Page 2

9361 · 12-30-2011, 09:08 PM

There is much difference in looks today between and ADBA APBT and a AKC Amstaff. The UKC APBT are looking more and more like the AKC Amstaff but a UKC APBT can be conditioned to look just like an ADBA APBT.... haha Confused yet?

KMdogs · 01-01-2012, 01:10 AM

A show dog is a show dog.. A working hound is a working hound.. The APBT is a world class worker the AST is in modern times a show hound.. Dog breeds are defined by purpose, function, ability, structure and appearance.. For some breeds, such as the APBT the true standard of which one is to be called such is function, ability purpose.. While the APBT and AST was once one of the same that time is now long gone. Established in two very ends of the spectrum, each are far different..

In order to truly understand youd have to handle both.. That will speak for all you need to know.

Some say a dog is defined by bloodlines.. Some say they are defined by function.. It is all in who you ask.. For me, a show APBT is just an AST as if you take APBT "blood" and breed away from working ability and toward the show ring you end up with an AST in no time.

Put simply, if a GSD cannot protect but wins at show rings.. Is that GSD bred to true standard? If a GSD cannot be worked to form, would you consider this dog a fine example of what the breeds foundation is? How about the APBT? If an APBT cannot perform as a raw athlete (legally or not.. Remember these hounds are all over the world) but can place at shows.. Is this a fine example? What about a Fila? Presa?

Or lets turn the tables, if an AST cannot be shown due to server faults.. What good is that dog in terms of breed standard? Might make an excellent family pet yes.. But thats not what we are speaking of.

**Kingsgurl** · 01-01-2012, 09:21 AM

I think this speaks to the biggest challenge facing the breed today. Like it or not, the original function of the APBT is ILLEGAL and most people find it morally reprehensible (myself included) How does one keep the breed true, while not stooping to animal cruelty (no matter how nicely dressed up as preserving a breed) to do so? The pitting of dogs in the current day and age does nothing to 'preserve' it, as there is no place for it and it does nothing but subject the breed to seizure, death (either in the pit or outside it) and public scorn/fear. If we do not find legal venues to showcase and prove dogs, we are the ones signing their death warrant as a breed.
You can dislike that fact, you can give me negative feedback, it doesn't change it. We are the current stewards of this awesome breed, developed by the old timers, forged on the blood of all the dogs past, how do WE keep it?

MaxSBT · 01-01-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingsgurl

I think this speaks to the biggest challenge facing the breed today. Like it or not, the original function of the APBT is ILLEGAL and most people find it morally reprehensible (myself included) How does one keep the breed true, while not stooping to animal cruelty (no matter how nicely dressed up as preserving a breed) to do so? The pitting of dogs in the current day and age does nothing to 'preserve' it, as there is no place for it and it does nothing but subject the breed to seizure, death (either in the pit or outside it) and public scorn/fear. If we do not find legal venues to showcase and prove dogs, we are the ones signing their death warrant as a breed.
You can dislike that fact, you can give me negative feedback, it doesn't change it. We are the current stewards of this awesome breed, developed by the old timers, forged on the blood of all the dogs past, how do WE keep it?

Very well said

KMdogs · 01-01-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingsgurl

I think this speaks to the biggest challenge facing the breed today. Like it or not, the original function of the APBT is ILLEGAL and most people find it morally reprehensible (myself included) How does one keep the breed true, while not stooping to animal cruelty (no matter how nicely dressed up as preserving a breed) to do so? The pitting of dogs in the current day and age does nothing to 'preserve' it, as there is no place for it and it does nothing but subject the breed to seizure, death (either in the pit or outside it) and public scorn/fear. If we do not find legal venues to showcase and prove dogs, we are the ones signing their death warrant as a breed.
You can dislike that fact, you can give me negative feedback, it doesn't change it. We are the current stewards of this awesome breed, developed by the old timers, forged on the blood of all the dogs past, how do WE keep it?

Those that keep true to how the [] used to be.. Is done with the hound first and foremost priority.. There are still those out there in the world with ethics.. Meaning not what you hear in the news..

Legally, you cannot test gameness as there is only one "true" test and that is illegal.. However there are those that still do.. Legally, you want a true test of character, ability, function.. Drive, etc.. The use of bulldogs as catch dogs can deliver this as well as other venues such as Shutzhund.. The only sport IMO that can do this.. However if we look at history in order to be called an APBT one must have proven themselves and this is where the question of what lines are drawn come in.

Personally i'd rather see people at least work their hounds in any form they can that requires both mental and physical stability.. Keep the function as closely accurate as possible (think "game bred"..tightly bred yards) and i'll leave it at that..

I personally wouldn't involve my hounds in anything illegal however i know what i'm feeding..

Experience is another.. For instance someone who has been around (or had) game dogs for years has a better understanding of what someone or even themselves are feeding without testing the "ole ways".. However i'm a firm believer you don't know what you have unless you work them.. Meaning, if we are talking protection i wouldn't call someones GSD a protection hound just because of the genetic make up.. I would call them a protection hound after proving worthy of such a honorable "title"..

I can say that i DO NOT consider show bred "APBT"s one of the same.. They are AST's plain and simple.. I also do NOT consider any unknown to be remotely on the same page.. An APBT is a working hound and should be bred and handled as such.. Work first pet second..

Now in days there are also breeders pairing proven show "APBTs" with some performance.. Whether it is Schutzhund or what have you.. Personally i believe if we are speaking of show bred paired to working, you might as well be breeding AST x APBT.. I have no problem with people showing their hounds no matter breed however the purpose should still be instilled and not bred towards something not in the foundation of which they are here for.

There are legal ventures that truly allow one to work their APBT's.. However breeding needs to be kept true and not reformed.. At least, not so much as to change what we already have..

**pitbullmamanatl** $Infraction Award$ · 01-01-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingsgurl

I think this speaks to the biggest challenge facing the breed today. Like it or not, the original function of the APBT is ILLEGAL and most people find it morally reprehensible (myself included) How does one keep the breed true, while not stooping to animal cruelty (no matter how nicely dressed up as preserving a breed) to do so? The pitting of dogs in the current day and age does nothing to 'preserve' it, as there is no place for it and it does nothing but subject the breed to seizure, death (either in the pit or outside it) and public scorn/fear. If we do not find legal venues to showcase and prove dogs, we are the ones signing their death warrant as a breed.
You can dislike that fact, you can give me negative feedback, it doesn't change it. We are the current stewards of this awesome breed, developed by the old timers, forged on the blood of all the dogs past, how do WE keep it?

It isn't illegal in other countries and the breed is still being preserved without breaking any laws over there.

KMdogs · 01-01-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitbullmamanatl

It isn't illegal in other countries and the breed is still being preserved without breaking any laws over there.

Exactly, there are also some dogmen here still preserving regardless of laws.. Either way if one does not want to risk it all there are legal activities that can be done to give you a pretty good idea of what you are feeding.. You couldn't claim you feed a game dog without actually testing which is illegal.. However tightly bred and keep in tact the foundation you have ways of working these hounds..

Granted, there are other ways as well if you wanted to ship a hound to another country and back as well.. However most "typical" bulldog owners wouldn't do that for various reasons.

geary · 02-02-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Nose_Bella

Yes there is a huge difference between APBT and AST. There looks alone are different when you compare them side by side. Though, to the public eye and media they all look the same and are lumped into one generic term "pit bull" When there is a bite or attack on a human. Blue isn't really considered an APBT color perse' but some will argue that and there is a mod on here who has true working blue APBT. She has gorgeous dogs true to the APBT form and not the AST. They can all correct me if I'm wrong.....I am still learning as well

I have a blue bitch that has alot of staff/ruffian blood in her who has been referred to as a pitterstaff. Blue is also a popular color in the American bullies which is another seperate breed. Put a bully beside a true APBT and you will see an even bigger difference.

dont feel bad i have a pitterstaff as well and proud of him. i bred him that way knowingly because i feel that the adba stream line 35-55 lbs is based on the early 1900's to the out law of fighting and the breed is way older than that and its frist jobs being bull baiting and catch dog. so i crossed the two and got an 80 lbs dog thats made like a 45 lbs dog

**Firehazard** · 02-02-2013, 01:00 PM

Function.. work... utility... purpose... that defines breeds.. Working dogs are just that and bred for the work. Show dogs are more often than not these days "show bred"..

Its a catch 22 ... because DNA testing wise... SBT, AST, BT, AB, Bostons, APBT> all come up the same genetic coding..
Mars Veterinary Wisdom Panel DNA Testing Pit Bulls APBT

doughboi · 02-02-2013, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ames

I had a hard time understanding this as well when I first started learning about what exactly a pit bull is. All dogs come from somewhere and all breeds do as well.

There is a difference in all the breeds you mentioned. AST may have started out as show APBT but they are their own breed through and through. I will try and find the comparison I have seen people post on where it is extremely obvious there are many different breeds that all get lumped in as a pit bull.

**Firehazard** · 02-02-2013, 03:50 PM

ON the DNA test... they are all the same..

KMdogs · 02-02-2013, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehazard

ON the DNA test... they are all the same..

Yet according to many, registered paper work and knowing where your dog came from is enough to know what you have..

HA, yeah it is a good start. But function is the final factor as a pedigreed "Pit Bull" and a pedigreed AST, well you trace them back to the same foundation and in many cases, not so long ago, paths cross over frequently. You don't have to go to the 1800s for them to intertwine.

Bosscobb · 03-06-2013, 11:30 PM

Hey guys, just joined the community, new owners of a beautiful creature

name 'Bosscobb' happen upon this thread, and enjoyed the read, we are beginners that's seeking to learn all we can

Sent from Petguide.com Free App