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Old 12-29-2011, 05:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
 

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difference in Amstaff And APBT

I have heard that there is a difference in American Staffordshire Terriers and American Pit Bull Terriers and that they are more cousins than the same type of breed. Ive also heard that they are the same breed and their is no difference. But if the AKC will not accept pits but amstaffs are allowed then how are they the same. I was also told that if a dog fighter( which i dont condone at all and hope that all people who fight dogs pits or any type of dog get put down and rot in prison) will not fight a dog if it has any Amstaff blood in it. I also read in a form about blue bloodlines that blues would have a Amstaff bloodline and would not be considered a Pitbull. I have a two blues and they fit the chartaritcs of an Amstaff but I just wanna know if there really is a difference or not. thanks
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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from what i have read, and i have read a ton....both derive from the same dog....it is the same dog, ....but one remained a work dog and one remained a show dog.....the apbt was the work dog and its conformation stayed true to what works best not what might look coolest.

the am staff was a show dog...and what do we like most about our breed...as far as looks and forgetting functionality??? ....big blocky heads, wide chests etc etc ..... when u see the am staff conformation the head varies from the apbt one...the breeders simply kept breeding show dogs with certain characteristics having nothing to do with performance. .....

and thats what u have the same breed fork in two directions because of breeding for a specific purpose....work vs show
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The original AKC Am Staff's were APBT, though the AKC refused to recognize them under that name and registered them as 'Staffordshire Terriers' instead (the American was actually added to the name later to avoid confusion with the Staffordshire Bull Terrier) Many of those first dogs were dual registered and the standard was written based on the working pit bull.
The AKC Am Staff gene pool is MUCH smaller than the APBT one, and truth be told could use an opening of the stud book to allow fresh blood back in.
Both sides are pretty adamant about them being different dogs, though no other blood was ever introduced.
Blue dogs occurred in APBT before Am Staff's came about (again, no other blood was introduced) If memory serves me right (and I'm old, so it may not) the color was believed to be introduced to the APBT from the now extinct Blue Paul Terrier. Blue's were generally looked down upon as not as game and the color was not sought after.
Anytime breeders breed to exaggerate traits you will see what you speak of as far as the loss of functionality. Form should follow function in the bred(s), but it doesn't when people want to interpret the original written standard the way they currently are. The UKC show dogs are also overdone, for the most part, especially with the recent influx of people breeding for extreme bullies. Granted, the UKC did actually revise the standard to more clearly outline the original ideal (which was a FUNCTIONAL dog) but that's too little too late, IMO Personally, I would yank papers on most UKC dogs right now if I was running that registry.
The ADBA errs on the Terrier side of the equation

Last edited by Kingsgurl; 12-29-2011 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Yes there is a huge difference between APBT and AST. There looks alone are different when you compare them side by side. Though, to the public eye and media they all look the same and are lumped into one generic term "pit bull" When there is a bite or attack on a human. Blue isn't really considered an APBT color perse' but some will argue that and there is a mod on here who has true working blue APBT. She has gorgeous dogs true to the APBT form and not the AST. They can all correct me if I'm wrong.....I am still learning as well I have a blue bitch that has alot of staff/ruffian blood in her who has been referred to as a pitterstaff. Blue is also a popular color in the American bullies which is another seperate breed. Put a bully beside a true APBT and you will see an even bigger difference.
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Last edited by Blue_Nose_Bella; 12-29-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Show dogs... no really any difference. AST is a show bred APBT.

MOST APBT today are showdogs and not WORKING DOGS. Thus most APBTs today coming from NON working stock and homes are really no different than ASTs.

Colby dogs are registered as APBTs, ASTs, and some colby trace in SBTs .. So if Colby bloodline dogs can be registered in or as all 3. The difference is simple.

Show/Function

ADBA shows contain more working type dogs than UKC or AKC but they're still those in the ADBA breeding for looks alone.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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So basically a bully is a AST or that is a different bloodline?
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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An american bully is Am staff and UKC style APBT mixed together supposedly only those, but there is speculation and some obvious cases where Eb's or corsos, mastiffs in some cases were mixed in to get size for pockets and XL's but depending on who you ask about that you will get varied responses lol.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I had a hard time understanding this as well when I first started learning about what exactly a pit bull is. All dogs come from somewhere and all breeds do as well.

There is a difference in all the breeds you mentioned. AST may have started out as show APBT but they are their own breed through and through. I will try and find the comparison I have seen people post on where it is extremely obvious there are many different breeds that all get lumped in as a pit bull.

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Old 12-30-2011, 05:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
 

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I was also told that an American Bully was the ABPT and the AST mixed together as well. another reason i thought they were different breeds. If you mix two breeds to make another breed then wouldnt that make the Amstaff a whole different breed from the APBT?
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
 

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I Like going to this website for well what it says lol "www.dogbreedinfo.com" and i found this in destription section of the page. here is the actual link if you want to read to whole page about the breed : American Staffordshire Terrier Information and Pictures


The American Staffordshire Terrier (Am Staff) is extremely strong for its size. Agile, very muscular and stocky with a broad, powerful head. The muzzle is medium in length, rounded on upper side to fall away abruptly below the eyes. The eyes are dark and round, low down in the skull and set far apart. Pink eyelids are considered a fault according to the AKC standard. The jaw is very strong. The lips are to be close and even, no looseness or dewlap. The ears are set high on the head and can be cropped or uncropped. Uncropped is preferred and should be short and held rose or half prick. The teeth should form a scissors bite. Its coat is made up of thick, stiff, glossy hair. All colors, solid, parti, or patched are permissible, but according to AKC standard it is not encouraged for dogs to be more than 80% white. The un-docked tail is short compared to the dogs size and tapers to a point. Classed by AKC as "American Staffordshire Terrier" and by UKC as "American Pit Bull Terrier." The American Staffordshire Terrier, are generally of larger bone structure, head size and weight then their cousins the American Pit Bull Terrier.
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbooss OSG View Post
I Like going to this website for well what it says lol "www.dogbreedinfo.com" and i found this in destription section of the page. here is the actual link if you want to read to whole page about the breed : American Staffordshire Terrier Information and Pictures


The American Staffordshire Terrier (Am Staff) is extremely strong for its size. Agile, very muscular and stocky with a broad, powerful head. The muzzle is medium in length, rounded on upper side to fall away abruptly below the eyes. The eyes are dark and round, low down in the skull and set far apart. Pink eyelids are considered a fault according to the AKC standard. The jaw is very strong. The lips are to be close and even, no looseness or dewlap. The ears are set high on the head and can be cropped or uncropped. Uncropped is preferred and should be short and held rose or half prick. The teeth should form a scissors bite. Its coat is made up of thick, stiff, glossy hair. All colors, solid, parti, or patched are permissible, but according to AKC standard it is not encouraged for dogs to be more than 80% white. The un-docked tail is short compared to the dogs size and tapers to a point. Classed by AKC as "American Staffordshire Terrier" and by UKC as "American Pit Bull Terrier." The American Staffordshire Terrier, are generally of larger bone structure, head size and weight then their cousins the American Pit Bull Terrier.
Don't put much stock into that website, a great deal of information not only about the Amstaff but for many breeds are wrong.. If you want to learn about any given breed go straight to the source, learn from those that have stayed true to the hounds and have had their hands on these dogs for years..

Thats just like going to dogbite.org or whatever it is to know how "dangerous" a breed is..
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:32 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehazard View Post
Show dogs... no really any difference. AST is a show bred APBT.

MOST APBT today are showdogs and not WORKING DOGS. Thus most APBTs today coming from NON working stock and homes are really no different than ASTs.

Colby dogs are registered as APBTs, ASTs, and some colby trace in SBTs .. So if Colby bloodline dogs can be registered in or as all 3. The difference is simple.

Show/Function

ADBA shows contain more working type dogs than UKC or AKC but they're still those in the ADBA breeding for looks alone.
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Originally Posted by KMdogs View Post
Don't put much stock into that website, a great deal of information not only about the Amstaff but for many breeds are wrong.. If you want to learn about any given breed go straight to the source, learn from those that have stayed true to the hounds and have had their hands on these dogs for years..

Thats just like going to dogbite.org or whatever it is to know how "dangerous" a breed is..
Yeah! What he said!
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:42 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbooss OSG View Post
I was also told that an American Bully was the ABPT and the AST mixed together as well. another reason i thought they were different breeds. If you mix two breeds to make another breed then wouldnt that make the Amstaff a whole different breed from the APBT?

Dave Wilson crossed Staff and APBT to create the American Bully (although not his intention in the beginning); however, once other people got their hands on some of his dogs nobody really knows what was mixed in other than that. There has been bulldog in them since the beginning, but nobody knows how much except for the people who did it. It is what it is and doesn't make me love the American Bully any less, but that is why the breed is so inconsistent-- nobody knows what they are actually breeding. Again, I believe DW when he states he did not mix anything else in, but he couldn't control the people who had his dogs. Easier said than done.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
 

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ohh no of course i was just showing one of the many things i found saying that they were seperate breeds...i know there alot of bogus websites out there...i've found some saying the APBT, Rotti, and the Boxer are the top three most dangerous in the world..real bogus info..ive seen one wedsite advertising that the pitbull was such a hard dog to train because of its aggressive tempermint that this one guy on there could change the dog into the perfect family pet. Hard to belive how some people can buy into that stuff when wikapidea tells you the APBT is a fun-loving family pet.

this was suppose to go under were KM Dogs replied

Last edited by bigbooss OSG; 12-30-2011 at 05:04 PM. Reason: work spot
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Depends on ones opinion. Some will say same. Others will say different. They are genetically the same breed but are very different. It's like the difference between a Border Collie and an AKC "Barbie" Collie. People don't generally mix the lines and consider them doffetent.

Blue will have AST somewhere in the pedigree unless its a rare exception.

Dogmen are not likely to have dogs with AST but sometimes it happens. There are also enough notable winners of past with AST. AST is likely to have loss gameness but some dogs with staff may be game.

AST is typically milder dog. Less drive, da.
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