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Old 11-13-2012, 08:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
 

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Champagne

Hi all,

I am new and registered here to find out more about the colors lilac and champagne. I have tried to find some good website on the genetic background and lilac i can find but nothing on the so called champagne (or is this the same?).
Maybe this question has been answered here before but when i try searching through the forum on this matter i am told: why don't you post a thread and become an active member... Well: alive, kicking and active now! Hope there are people wanting to inform me on this matter.

Cheers!
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Neither are an actual UKC or ADBA registered colors which is why actual info on them is harder to find. Most often you find the terms being used by breeders making it seems their puppies are of a "rare" color. Here's one thread on the colors. Lilac is a pretty no existent color ( I know of 1 bully kennel that has dogs I would consider Lilac). Over all they are just dilutes of blue/red. Champagne is used for the brighter yellow dilute and lilac for the dark dilute like yours. Many people will call their dogs Lilac or Champagne when they dog is really just a fawn or blue fawn.

Champagne, lilac, and similar colors

Is there a question you have in specific about the color or just looking for genetic sites?
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
 

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So if i understand it right people call a dog champagne when it is a lighter lilac. I could definately understand this because lilac dogs appear to have a bronze kind of shade over them that makes them look champagne but i can definately tell a lilac from a blue. The nose alone is lavender colored instead of dark grey as it is chocolate based (bb) with the blue dilute (dd). But i always thought champagne was a different color genetically.
I was posting this question because i am breeding blue (bluenose) but have been offered a 'champagne' looking pit that seems to be more of a lilac to me. Unfortunately i do not have any pictures yet to post but if i do i will certainly post them here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by American_Pit13 View Post
Neither are an actual UKC or ADBA registered colors which is why actual info on them is harder to find. Most often you find the terms being used by breeders making it seems their puppies are of a "rare" color. Here's one thread on the colors. Lilac is a pretty no existent color ( I know of 1 bully kennel that has dogs I would consider Lilac). Over all they are just dilutes of blue/red. Champagne is used for the brighter yellow dilute and lilac for the dark dilute like yours. Many people will call their dogs Lilac or Champagne when they dog is really just a fawn or blue fawn.

Champagne, lilac, and similar colors

Is there a question you have in specific about the color or just looking for genetic sites?
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavita View Post
I was posting this question because i am breeding blue (bluenose) but have been offered a 'champagne' looking pit that seems to be more of a lilac to me. Unfortunately i do not have any pictures yet to post but if i do i will certainly post them here.

Is there some reason other than blue nose that you think these dogs are worth breeding? Color should be the very last thing that you think of when looking for a breeding quality dog.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by American_Pit13 View Post
Is there some reason other than blue nose that you think these dogs are worth breeding? Color should be the very last thing that you think of when looking for a breeding quality dog.
Of course there is. My last litter gave a champion with very good comments such as the pigmentation which i find very important. For me, health and character come first but i strive to combine that breeding a good pigmented color too. I have a vision what a good dog should look like, do not use any linebreeding as that is (in my opinion) just some royal inbreeding. I do neither use dogs that only have the slightest sign of HD like in staffords it is allowed to breed with a light form or potention of HD which in my dictionary should not be evident AT ALL! If you are a responsible breeder you breed to improve! And as i see it there is nothing wrong with aiming to combine that with a stunning color as well.
Also: when i sell my pups i am keeping in touch with all the new owners to keep track, make sure that they are kept by responsible people but also to hear about any possible illnesses or allergies that might come up out of a specific combination.
I have studied genetics and animal husbandry, have lots of experience breeding (not only dogs) so yes i can very well say about my self that i am a responsible breeder with both feet on the ground.

Unfortunately i already noticed here a very strong movement against colorbreeding. I understand that as there are many people who breed for the money and not because it is their passion. But with that attitude it seems any colored dog is condemned to just another goldmine of some golddigger which would make me and many other good breeders who love a good color too; golddiggers.
For me the price of the pup can drop a lot if someone has proven to me to be a good owner for their dogs! It is not all about the money, yes there are idealistic people left in this world...
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Let me preface this by saying I know NOTHING about breeding.

My only input is this...I have a dog that is considered "champagne" that's what the breeder said and that is what she put on her UKC paperwork.

At the time we got the pup (6 years ago) I didn't know the pup was considered a "rare" or non-standard color. I mean Basset hounds come in Lemon, Poodles in Apricot, Champagne sounded like a perfectly reasonable pit bull color...

I did know that blue pit bulls tended to have (at least anecdotally) more problems with skin allergies and I think I knew it had to do with them having a dilute coat color. I did not know that champagne was also a dilute coat color. Didn't hear/know much about it all, and as I said, I thought it was a "standard" color.

At any rate, don't know if this is relevant but my girl who I love with all my heart and wouldn't trade for the world has fierce allergies (as in has her own dermatologist, gets a monthly injection and spends about 6 months out of the year on zyrtec, along with weekly medicated baths and special topical sprays).

So my point is this...if dilute coat color is connected to a greater tendency towards allergies (and I don't know if it is, as I said I know nothing about breeding and about 25 years separates me from my college genetics course; but IF it is) then I think it is irresponsible of breeders to breed specifically for these colors knowing the dogs are at greater risk to have a health problem that can significantly impact their quality of life. My dog does well, but it is time consuming to stay on top of, and it ain't cheap.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzy&Veronica View Post
Let me preface this by saying I know NOTHING about breeding.

My only input is this...I have a dog that is considered "champagne" that's what the breeder said and that is what she put on her UKC paperwork.

At the time we got the pup (6 years ago) I didn't know the pup was considered a "rare" or non-standard color. I mean Basset hounds come in Lemon, Poodles in Apricot, Champagne sounded like a perfectly reasonable pit bull color...

I did know that blue pit bulls tended to have (at least anecdotally) more problems with skin allergies and I think I knew it had to do with them having a dilute coat color. I did not know that champagne was also a dilute coat color. Didn't hear/know much about it all, and as I said, I thought it was a "standard" color.

At any rate, don't know if this is relevant but my girl who I love with all my heart and wouldn't trade for the world has fierce allergies (as in has her own dermatologist, gets a monthly injection and spends about 6 months out of the year on zyrtec, along with weekly medicated baths and special topical sprays).

So my point is this...if dilute coat color is connected to a greater tendency towards allergies (and I don't know if it is, as I said I know nothing about breeding and about 25 years separates me from my college genetics course; but IF it is) then I think it is irresponsible of breeders to breed specifically for these colors knowing the dogs are at greater risk to have a health problem that can significantly impact their quality of life. My dog does well, but it is time consuming to stay on top of, and it ain't cheap.
I must spread the love first...

I'm going to say I agree whole-heartedly with your post. I know very little about breeding as well, as that's just not my forte. But, I do understand the detriment to a dog's well being when it's forced to live with allergies and whatnot, all boiling down to the dog being unable to live a happy, healthy life just because the "breeder" thought it would be a good idea to pair two dilutes together b/c they liked the colors and wanted to see what they could produce.

OP, this is not intended to offend you, just stating my opinion. If you can find a way with your extensive knowledge and experience, to put dilutes together and avoid the increased allergy issues, that would be wonderful!

I can't speak much on the colors, either, other than the fact that you're correct in your idea about us (GoPitbull members) being against people breeding strictly for color. We are of the opinion that dogs should be bred for temperament, health, and conformation prior to considering coat color.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors and with your search to learn more about the colors you speak of. I'd also like to welcome you to the pack and I hope you enjoy your stay on our yard.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
 

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Thank you guys for your sincere posts! I agree fully with you that breeding should be about other things then color in the first place. But as i am always interested in genetics the world of colors fascinates me purely for that too. I have heard rumors about allergies being more common in diluted colors but did quite some research on the matter and there seems (so far) not to be any scientific proof that this is more common in dilutes.
In horses there are the same issues going round with dilutes. I think the mayor problem being inbreeding when people breed too much just on the color and neclecting the main important things like health, built and temprament. The blame are people willing to pay a lot more just for a special color! The gene pool then being too small (all decending from just a few lines in which the color originated as a mutation) is moreover the cause of health problems maybe. But, i am no scientist so anyone with good literature about it is welcome!

In my own breeding experience i have not seen more allergies or skin problems then with other colored dogs. I think in general; dogs with pedigrees often have more skin problems then have dogs of mixed breeds and again that leads me to the gene pool and line breeding.

But let me end by saying i fully agree with you guys! Breeding is about breeding a well built, good temperamented dog in the first place and anyone who JUST breeds for color is not worthy breeding! And as well as color there are too many people solely breeding back to a certain bloodline which is as damaging as breeding solely on a color. Both is dangerous and irresponsible!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaLadyPit View Post
I must spread the love first...

I'm going to say I agree whole-heartedly with your post. I know very little about breeding as well, as that's just not my forte. But, I do understand the detriment to a dog's well being when it's forced to live with allergies and whatnot, all boiling down to the dog being unable to live a happy, healthy life just because the "breeder" thought it would be a good idea to pair two dilutes together b/c they liked the colors and wanted to see what they could produce.

OP, this is not intended to offend you, just stating my opinion. If you can find a way with your extensive knowledge and experience, to put dilutes together and avoid the increased allergy issues, that would be wonderful!

I can't speak much on the colors, either, other than the fact that you're correct in your idea about us (GoPitbull members) being against people breeding strictly for color. We are of the opinion that dogs should be bred for temperament, health, and conformation prior to considering coat color.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors and with your search to learn more about the colors you speak of. I'd also like to welcome you to the pack and I hope you enjoy your stay on our yard.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavita View Post
In my own breeding experience i have not seen more allergies or skin problems then with other colored dogs. I think in general; dogs with pedigrees often have more skin problems then have dogs of mixed breeds and again that leads me to the gene pool and line breeding.
!
I have heard of color dilution alopecia:
Color-dilution alopecia in dogs. [J Vet Sci. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

but that is supposed to be fairly rare; and is something different than the skin/environmental allergies that seem to be common in bully breeds in general.
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