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Old 11-26-2012, 02:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Heck yea I'd rather spray a loose dog then have my dog taken away because some dumb ass can't follow leash laws. That's protecting our dogs. It's not like I'm macing my own dog cause I can't control it. You can point fingers at others and dance around the issue all you want but its clear that you have no clue what your talking about once again. How bout instead of dumping alcohol in your dogs face, try spending time with it, train it. Teach it proper leash manners and the "leave it" command. You shouldn't have to carry around alcohol to control you dog on a walk.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hotchkiss View Post
Ok, so let me get this right, it's OK for you to suggest someone bear mace the neighbor's dog if it approaches you while you're walking, (bear mace having insanely toxic chemicals that can cause permanent damage to the eyes and nasal cavity) but rubbing alcohol (which is completely innocuous, just burns for a while) is inhumane?

As far as "serious pit fights," how serious does it need to be? Broken bones? Cuts from ear hole to nose hole with the top lip hanging below the bottom? A missing eye? All that can happen in less than a minute.

So while you're running around behind the dogs while they fight at 100 miles per hour, waiting for one to quit enough so the other can pin him down, the damage is done. You dump rubbing alcohol on their heads the moment it gets started and you prevent alot of damage.

My wife and her Dad used to swear by break sticks, but now my wife does the same thing I do. Meanwhile, her dad's running around like an idiot trying to get position so he can jam that damn thing in the top dog's mouth and make a teeth shattering twist... and all he's doing is wasting time.

On the other hand, it's not nearly as cool to throw a bottle of rubbing alcohol in your day pack as it is to tell someone why you have an antler hanging out of your back pocket, (yea, I know, they don't use antlers nor sticks anymore) "it's cuz I have a pit bull and they're super bad ass and their jaws lock like a vice when they fight; (please don't waste your time telling me that their jaws don't really lock) it's like totally wicked man, so I have this horn so I can breakup a fight" (and yes, I know an antler isn't a horn).

You can be cool and waste time which increases the odds of serious injury, or you can be practical. In my book, cool is a waste of time, literally.
ur sense of sarcasm is really tiring. really wat it comes down to here, is training ur dogs and having control of them at all times. no i dont sit there and brag about a goddamn break stick in my pocket but then again, i dont sit here and brag i have 5 generations that own "pits" as u have put it.

get a grip of yourself. u think anyone wants to listen to anyone that is forces their methods and opinions on them? these new owners are looking for guidance and ur sitting here telling them to dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol on their dog? ur an idiot! im pretty sure that animal control wouldnt see that as humane. so go ahead, dump some RA on these dogs, and get ur pet taken to a shelter, and put down, while all the while u could have kept ur dog on a lead, or trained them t focus on YOU THE PACK LEADER vs focuses on other dogs running around to prevent any fight from starting.

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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get a grip of yourself. u think anyone wants to listen to anyone that is forces their methods and opinions on them? these new owners are looking for guidance and ur sitting here telling them to dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol on their dog? ur an idiot! im pretty sure that animal control wouldnt see that as humane. so go ahead, dump some RA on these dogs, and get ur pet taken to a shelter, and put down, while all the while u could have kept ur dog on a lead, or trained them t focus on YOU THE PACK LEADER vs focuses on other dogs running around to prevent any fight from starting.
Good post! I agree!



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Old 11-26-2012, 05:05 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Rubbing alcohol the saftest way to break-up a fight. It's non-toxic (unlike mace) and safer than a break stick for both the person involved and the dog's teeth.

As for having complete control of your dog when you walk it, that's for another thread. This one started off about DA, became whether or not it's curable and evolved into what precautions you can take if a fight breaks out.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hotchkiss View Post
Rubbing alcohol the saftest way to break-up a fight. It's non-toxic (unlike mace) and safer than a break stick for both the person involved and the dog's teeth.

As for having complete control of your dog when you walk it, that's for another thread. This one started off about DA, became whether or not it's curable and evolved into what precautions you can take if a fight breaks out.
No one in the right mind is going to use rubbing alcohol on their dogs in a fight or if it pulls. Anyone who does so should not be allowed to own an animal. Your insistence on the usage of rubbing alcohol spells out a lot about your character. Using mace to protect yourself and your pets is different then just spraying your dog in the face. It actually makes sense that you can't comprehend the difference though and I don't expect you to. I just hope that people new to pit type dogs are not led astray by your poor advise.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by jec1521 View Post
Hey guys,

I adopted a "pit mix" a few months back and she has been great, even with my other dog. Since I "did my homework" and educated myself on the breed before I got her, I know that DA is a serious, real, and prominent part of the APBT, and I take every precaution against it.

Now, a couple of thoughts and questions have came up to me while having this dog, and I'm hoping to have an honest discussion with you guys.

1. Every breed of dog has the ability to be DA. It's not even all that uncommon to see other dogs (even toy sized breeds) be aggressive towards other dogs and animals. Now, I understand the history of the APBT, but there are many APBTs out there that are fine with other dogs. This brings me to my main question: Are APBT owners more cautious about DA than any other breed owner?

2. If APBT owners ARE overly cautious, why? Is it because of the strength of the breed and the damage that it can do? Is it because of BSL? Maybe both?

3. Can DA be trained out of other breeds? I always read people here saying you cannot train DA out of the APBT. If you can train DA out of other breeds, who's to say you cannot train DA out of an APBT with a standard case of DA that any breed can have? I understand that there are APBT's out there that will attack any dog with no provocation. Those dogs have the "fighting" trait in them that was bred and I could see not being able to train out. But, an APBT with a "standard" case of DA, why is it not trainable? I guess my main question is, Is DA in the APBT different than in any other breed?


I hope I didn't ramble too much. Keep in mind I'm just a normal guy with not much, if any, knowledge on dog breeding or anything like that. I'm just trying to learn.

What do you guys think?
Question #1 Yes,several breeds are DA,especially at times,but they were not bred for the last 100 plus years to fight dogs.So it is a different situation.Some APBT's are alright around other dogs,there are cold dogs out there,but always assume an APBT to be DA and it won't catch you off guard.Also,there's lots of dogs out there being refered to as a APBT,when in reality it is not. APBT owners need to be alot more cautious because with most breeds if it bites another dog,no problem.An APBT gets another dog,it can very well be PTS.Not fair but that's the way it is.
Question #2. APBT owners need to be overly cautious because,yes the APBT can do pretty serious damage when it wants to,as I mentioned the dog could be taken away and PTS,and last but not least some innocent people have faced dog fighting charges for no reason at all. Question #3. No,IMHO it is not trainable,manageable but not trainable.The whole "it's all in how you raise them" is nonsense. These dogs were bred for a very,very long time to fight,it's silly to think we can just scold them and they loose that drive to do what they are bred to do. With all that said,you only have a mix,and honestly good chance the APBT part of it is probably a bully or something,so the drive may not be the anyway,but watch out for it in case it is. Also,I don't know how old your dog is but the "turn on" age varies but a dog may be puppish at a year old and by a few weeks or months later be on fire and rearing to go.Just because it's non DA at one point in life don't mean it will stay that way. What's the other part of the mix? Anyway,good luck with your dog.
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:52 PM   #22 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by jec1521 View Post
Hey guys,

I adopted a "pit mix" a few months back and she has been great, even with my other dog. Since I "did my homework" and educated myself on the breed before I got her, I know that DA is a serious, real, and prominent part of the APBT, and I take every precaution against it.

Now, a couple of thoughts and questions have came up to me while having this dog, and I'm hoping to have an honest discussion with you guys.

1. Every breed of dog has the ability to be DA. It's not even all that uncommon to see other dogs (even toy sized breeds) be aggressive towards other dogs and animals. Now, I understand the history of the APBT, but there are many APBTs out there that are fine with other dogs. This brings me to my main question: Are APBT owners more cautious about DA than any other breed owner?

2. If APBT owners ARE overly cautious, why? Is it because of the strength of the breed and the damage that it can do? Is it because of BSL? Maybe both?

3. Can DA be trained out of other breeds? I always read people here saying you cannot train DA out of the APBT. If you can train DA out of other breeds, who's to say you cannot train DA out of an APBT with a standard case of DA that any breed can have? I understand that there are APBT's out there that will attack any dog with no provocation. Those dogs have the "fighting" trait in them that was bred and I could see not being able to train out. But, an APBT with a "standard" case of DA, why is it not trainable? I guess my main question is, Is DA in the APBT different than in any other breed?


I hope I didn't ramble too much. Keep in mind I'm just a normal guy with not much, if any, knowledge on dog breeding or anything like that. I'm just trying to learn.

What do you guys think?
I will reply to original OP post first since the thread has gone way off coarse.
First, YES the DA as you call it, "I prefer combat drive CD" is different in the apbt than most any other breed. It has been bred in them for hundreds of years. And this DA can not be trained out of them, but it can be managed.
There is a saying that has been quoted many times on this and other sites, and that is "never trust an APBT not to fight". I think most owners of this breed should pin it to their forehead! But lets face it, most of the so called "pit bulls" you see out there are usually mixes, or mutts so the DA in these animals are most likely not much different than any other breed.
I personally have not seen fixing your dog work on DA, but I guess it might in some.
I have been around these dogs for many decades also, and I learned "some times the hard way" that they are all individuals and some "turn on" a lot earlier than others.

And as far as tools to use to train, or brake up a fight. Now this is only from my experience.
1. A training or prong collar work really well as long as you have it connected to a back up collar in case a link comes loose.
First let me say, accidents can happen from time to time. It does not mean a person is irresponsible if walking their dog they are suddenly attacked by a loose dog. Or if you have a multiple dogs, accident can also happen. So lets not call some one a bad owner simply because of an accident!

2. A break stick, just like any other tool works fantastic in the right situation.
It does not work well if one of the dogs is a mutt or of another breed and the owner isn't able to hold their dog. You will get bit!
And as a side note; if both dogs are apbt's you have plenty of time to separate them before to much damage happens. The trick is to stay calm, and even though it looks disturbing don't panic!
I have never tried rubbing alcohol to stop a confrontation from happening. And I have my doubts it would work on "working class" bull dogs, but IDK.
I do not understand why everyone is freaking out over it. If it works on a loose charging dog, or causes the dogs to let loose, then I do not find it inhumane at all. If it works for you, then that is great, it is much better than most of the untrained ways of trying to break up a fight, kicking, punching, water hose down the back of the throat, among other more fatal ways.
Oh and by the way, breaking sticks don't shatter teeth "as stated earlier" if used properly and is made out of wood or plastic.
The bottom line is, DON'T get an APBT if they are going to be around other dogs, and then you want to try to break them by attempting to train out hundreds of years of combat drive. Just not smart!
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Last edited by dday; 11-26-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
No one in the right mind is going to use rubbing alcohol on their dogs in a fight or if it pulls. Anyone who does so should not be allowed to own an animal. Your insistence on the usage of rubbing alcohol spells out a lot about your character. Using mace to protect yourself and your pets is different then just spraying your dog in the face. It actually makes sense that you can't comprehend the difference though and I don't expect you to. I just hope that people new to pit type dogs are not led astray by your poor advise.
I don't understand, why are you so bothered by the poster stating he uses rubbing alcohol? You are jumping down his throat as if he was using something toxic. He didn't say battery acid, or gasoline! You are being a little to hard, and judgmental on him IMO.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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In order for rubbing alcohol to stop a fight, the dog would have to care that you're spraying them. That's not a dog fully committed to the fight. Unless its supposed to send them into a sneezing fit or something. It's not what I would rely on either way. I typically choke out because my instinctive reaction is to go for the collar, but breaking sticks are good, too. It just depends on what your circumstances are when the fight breaks out.

Leri Hanson sums up my feelings on DA nicely:

"I have a problem with people who try to sugar-coat what they are. Their background comes from a fighting history. They get a hold of something and they're into it, the damage is quick, and it's violent, and its quite frightening if you're not prepared. When you watch them wrestle and play with one of their playmates, you see why they're the number one fighting breed. I mean, they're good at what they do. They're strong, they're powerful, they're quick, they're agile. Like I said, there doesn't have to be a reason for these dogs to fight. Sometimes it's just the pure love of it. Game dogs have that very very strong in them."
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:08 PM   #25 (permalink)
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In order for rubbing alcohol to stop a fight, the dog would have to care that you're spraying them. That's not a dog fully committed to the fight.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:12 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dday View Post
I don't understand, why are you so bothered by the poster stating he uses rubbing alcohol? You are jumping down his throat as if he was using something toxic. He didn't say battery acid, or gasoline! You are being a little to hard, and judgmental on him IMO.
its how he tries to force his methods to new owners who know very little when it comes to this stuff..instead its "bash the mass" and his views are far better becuase hes had these dogs for gens....


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Old 11-26-2012, 08:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dday View Post
I don't understand, why are you so bothered by the poster stating he uses rubbing alcohol? You are jumping down his throat as if he was using something toxic. He didn't say battery acid, or gasoline! You are being a little to hard, and judgmental on him IMO.
I just think there are better methods. Also when the rubbing alcohol was first brought to light he was talking about spraying the dog for pulling him while leash walking. It wasn't until later where he included information about him using it to break up fights. I don't feel I'm being judgmental. I'm simply going off information he has provided not only in this thread but in others as well. I have no sympathy for irresponsible owners. Having a dog drag you down the street isn't a reflection on the dog and it's DA it only reflects the lack of training provided by the owner and then to spray the dog with rubbing alcohol expecting that to be some magical trick in keeping a DA dog in line is ludicrous. If he can't leash train a dog how in the world can he break up a dog fight?? Oh that's right rubbing alcohol.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:37 PM   #28 (permalink)
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There you go again with assumptions. Please learn how to read. I NEVER EVER suggested using mace to break up a dog fight. Macing the dog charging at you is a deterant. Would you rather just stand there and act like an idiot and let your dog get attacked or spray it and keep it from harming your dog? I would never ever use mace as any form of training method, it has only one use wether it's people or a dog, personal protection.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:05 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Dday, I've done about everything you're talking about -- even the ones that are obviously a bad idea -- and I think you'll agree, most don't work. I could spray my dogs all day with a water hose and nothing would happen. Light the end of a newspaper and wave it at them, don't have a single one that's going to break his hold. Twisting ears and cranking on tails doesn't work and they're both hard on the dog. Punching and kicking them can break bones...

Appreciate you being honest enough to say you've never tried it and that even though you doubt it will work, that it might be something to consider.

I trust the alcohol method because it has worked for me. More importantly, it works for my wife. She's been around pits her entire life. She's the one that told me about it.

I could probably badger her into learning how to use a break stick, but...

I'm not going to explain to my wife that she needs to wait for a break in the action, then with cat reflexes squat over the dog's hackle bones, pinch it at the hips with her knees, get a handful of skin behind the neck with her weak hand, start sliding her strong hand (with the breaker in it) up from the dog's shoulders, then along side its neck, then up to its cheek bone, then slide it into the dogs mouth, start working it back and forth like a motorcycle throttle -- but careful not to break any teeth -- until the dog lets go or the other dog breaks free.

I'm not going to explain to her how you can't just start stabbing at the dog's mouth without holding the dog at the hips and the neck. I'm not going to try and describe the right moment to jump in.

I'm not going to explain that she needs to be watching the back of the other dog's neck at all times as she's doing all this or she could get bit. I'm not going to explain to her that once she breaks the dog's hold, to drop the stick, pick her dog up around the chest while continuing to hold the back of it's neck, raise it, turning her back on the other dog to prevent the fight from breaking out again, all the while knowing as I'm giving the explanation that there's always a chance the other dog might bite her in the legs or the back when she does it --

I'm not going to explain all that and HOPE she understands it all and HOPE that everything turns out text-book perfect and HOPE she doesn't break any of the dog's teeth and HOPE and HOPE and HOPE when I can simply say,

"yea, do that rubbing alcohol thing you like. It's much easier."

Dday, in reality my wife knows everything I described above and she carries a break stick because she was raised her around pits, but I'm trying to make a point.

I think it's a terrible idea to tell some young man or woman that break stick is the first resort and not the last.

The danger is just too high. It's just like you said, breaking a dog off isn't a concern. It's the dog that doesn't have a hold that makes my heart race... even when someone else has a hold of it.

Suggesting a green kid use a breaker to split up a fight -- alone with no one else there to hold on the other dog -- is just asking too much. Better to just let the fight play out if you're inexperienced, or use alcohol!

Last edited by hotchkiss; 11-26-2012 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:27 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Waving a flaming piece of newspaper? Are you freaking serious? What on earth is wrong with you. You just sound more and more irriaponsible with every post. Like I have said over and over if your responsible and protect your dog you shouldn't be worring about breaking up fights left and right. Keep your damn dog on a leash and be aware of your surroundings. Like I said before if a loose dog is coming after me or my dog I have no problem macing it. I'd rather just keep it away from me and not have to deal with a fight in the first place.
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