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Old 11-24-2012, 09:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
 

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Couple questions about DA, etc.

Hey guys,

I adopted a "pit mix" a few months back and she has been great, even with my other dog. Since I "did my homework" and educated myself on the breed before I got her, I know that DA is a serious, real, and prominent part of the APBT, and I take every precaution against it.

Now, a couple of thoughts and questions have came up to me while having this dog, and I'm hoping to have an honest discussion with you guys.

1. Every breed of dog has the ability to be DA. It's not even all that uncommon to see other dogs (even toy sized breeds) be aggressive towards other dogs and animals. Now, I understand the history of the APBT, but there are many APBTs out there that are fine with other dogs. This brings me to my main question: Are APBT owners more cautious about DA than any other breed owner?

2. If APBT owners ARE overly cautious, why? Is it because of the strength of the breed and the damage that it can do? Is it because of BSL? Maybe both?

3. Can DA be trained out of other breeds? I always read people here saying you cannot train DA out of the APBT. If you can train DA out of other breeds, who's to say you cannot train DA out of an APBT with a standard case of DA that any breed can have? I understand that there are APBT's out there that will attack any dog with no provocation. Those dogs have the "fighting" trait in them that was bred and I could see not being able to train out. But, an APBT with a "standard" case of DA, why is it not trainable? I guess my main question is, Is DA in the APBT different than in any other breed?


I hope I didn't ramble too much. Keep in mind I'm just a normal guy with not much, if any, knowledge on dog breeding or anything like that. I'm just trying to learn.

What do you guys think?
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think we're all cautious for different reasons. Whether it's the damage your dog will do or the legal consequences of it or just because it gets old dealing with super DA dog... any reason is sufficient to be overly cautious.

2/3 of the pits I have or do own are just a nightmare around other dogs. Have a little 45 pound pit -- which is actually about normal of an APBT -- that is hell to deal with. On the other hand, since we don't have leash laws down here, I don't even put my other pit on a leash.

While my larger pit is hell on wheels in a fight, he need provocation or something else to get him jacked up. In reality, I could never take them for walks if both dogs had the disposition of my smaller one.

While heart and gameness and pride bla, bla, bla are all part of reasons we love the breed, but DA drives me a little crazy. It's very hard to deal with. I've never been able to change it without neutering or spaying the dog. That actually makes a massive difference, but short of that, I have nothing to suggest.

I spray him in the face with rubbing alcohol to make him top jerking me down the street, but that's just curbs his behavior, doesn't change his disposition.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm my knowledgeable on the other aspects as others are here who I'm sure will answer your questions accordingly. I personally am cautious because of my DA dog. She's not pit mix or pure. She's a mutt blue heeler lab but still DA. Of a dog so mic as gets in nose reach she will attack. I'm cautious because I don't want people to be afraid of her. She is the most loving dog. Just doesn't like other dogs. I don't like the fighting and I don't like having to separate her and have her potentially hurt someone else's dog who was wanting to say hi or play. She has jumped from a moving car to go after a dog before. One I don't like the thought of my dog being taken away from my family because of it and if a child was nearby I would hate for them to accidentally get in the middle. I also don't want her to pick a fight with a dog bigger than her. That would kill me. So I take necessary precautions. She is leashed outside and I have an air soft gun to keep dogs out of our yard. It's not something we can train out of her. She just does it.


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Old 11-24-2012, 10:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jec1521 View Post
Hey guys,

I adopted a "pit mix" a few months back and she has been great, even with my other dog. Since I "did my homework" and educated myself on the breed before I got her, I know that DA is a serious, real, and prominent part of the APBT, and I take every precaution against it.

Now, a couple of thoughts and questions have came up to me while having this dog, and I'm hoping to have an honest discussion with you guys.

1. Every breed of dog has the ability to be DA. It's not even all that uncommon to see other dogs (even toy sized breeds) be aggressive towards other dogs and animals. Now, I understand the history of the APBT, but there are many APBTs out there that are fine with other dogs. This brings me to my main question: Are APBT owners more cautious about DA than any other breed owner?

2. If APBT owners ARE overly cautious, why? Is it because of the strength of the breed and the damage that it can do? Is it because of BSL? Maybe both?

3. Can DA be trained out of other breeds? I always read people here saying you cannot train DA out of the APBT. If you can train DA out of other breeds, who's to say you cannot train DA out of an APBT with a standard case of DA that any breed can have? I understand that there are APBT's out there that will attack any dog with no provocation. Those dogs have the "fighting" trait in them that was bred and I could see not being able to train out. But, an APBT with a "standard" case of DA, why is it not trainable? I guess my main question is, Is DA in the APBT different than in any other breed?


I hope I didn't ramble too much. Keep in mind I'm just a normal guy with not much, if any, knowledge on dog breeding or anything like that. I'm just trying to learn.

What do you guys think?
DA CANNOT BE CURED. Having them fixed might help but it shouldn't be used as an expected cure all. APBT owners and pit bull type dog owners must be more cautious because these dogs were bred for the DA trait whereas other dog breeds were not. A real APBT will have DA tendencies and if an individual cannot handle it then these dogs are not for them. DA isn't a bad trait it's like a retriever wanting to retrieve. There are people who don't understand the difference between HA and DA. Those are people I wouldn't expect much dog knowledge from and people who should never own any bulldog.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hotchkiss View Post
I spray him in the face with rubbing alcohol to make him top jerking me down the street, but that's just curbs his behavior, doesn't change his disposition.
Wow really. Maybe you should try training him instead. You cannot cure DA but as an owner it is your job to manage it. Spraying your dog in the face with rubbing alcohol is just lazy as hell.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hotchkiss View Post

I spray him in the face with rubbing alcohol to make him top jerking me down the street, but that's just curbs his behavior, doesn't change his disposition.
im sorry to say this but this is horrible advice to mention. why in lords name would you spray rubbing alcohol in your dogs face? get a prong collar and establish your role in your pack please....

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Old 11-25-2012, 12:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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WTF seriously? Spray it in the face with alcohol? That's the most ridiculous crap I've heard all day. Dog aggression can not be cured but it can definitely be managed with good training. My dog is DA as well and I have absolutely no problem walking him down the street in a heel position, even if other dogs are barking, and he also does dock diving when he is around a ton of other dogs all day long. He has never once gone after another dog at an event.

To the OP there are a lot of rescues and mixed bred dogs being called pit bulls who actually have no APBT in them at all. A lot of the times people talk about their "pits" not being DA is because they're not APBTs at all and do not carry the same traits and genetics as the real APBTs who lineage traces back to box dogs.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
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First off,you adopted him,chances are hes just a mutt and doesn't have any APBT blood in him,to the person who sprays their dog with alcohol,that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in weeks,train him,
,I trained my pup not to pull not sprayed her in the face.And DA is not curable,but it is managable.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotchkiss View Post
I think we're all cautious for different reasons. Whether it's the damage your dog will do or the legal consequences of it or just because it gets old dealing with super DA dog... any reason is sufficient to be overly cautious.

2/3 of the pits I have or do own are just a nightmare around other dogs. Have a little 45 pound pit -- which is actually about normal of an APBT -- that is hell to deal with. On the other hand, since we don't have leash laws down here, I don't even put my other pit on a leash.

While my larger pit is hell on wheels in a fight, he need provocation or something else to get him jacked up. In reality, I could never take them for walks if both dogs had the disposition of my smaller one.

While heart and gameness and pride bla, bla, bla are all part of reasons we love the breed, but DA drives me a little crazy. It's very hard to deal with. I've never been able to change it without neutering or spaying the dog. That actually makes a massive difference, but short of that, I have nothing to suggest.

I spray him in the face with rubbing alcohol to make him top jerking me down the street, but that's just curbs his behavior, doesn't change his disposition.
Honestly this just sounds like you don't know much about these dogs and how to properly train them. And neutering will NOT stop dog aggression from setting in. I have a 4 year old male who is neutered and is still very DA. He's ok with puppies but he can never "play" with older dogs. That being said, I have done extensive training with this dog and we actively compete in dock diving where he is out with tons of other barking dogs all day. All I have to do is put him in a down stay and he doesn't move until I say so. I also do weight pull training with him, he is incredibly strong and has no problem pulling my weight but he will NOT pull on a walk if he's put in heel position. He's also working on training to be a service dog. Right now were working on walking through crowded stores and parking lots and I have had absolutely no issues what so ever. The key is training, and spraying a dog in the face is not training by any means. If you think DA is hell and a pain to deal with then you might want to think about owning a different breed.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Pits have been in my family for five generations. Without a doubt, I know pits. Shock collars and biting collars and all those garbage products have little to no use.

What's a shock collar going to you if your dog gets in a fight? There is a very good reason I carry rubbing alcohol with me every morning I exercise my dogs, it's the most humane means of breaking up a fight.

...And if I hear someone start talking about breaking sticks, I'm going to stick one in someone's eye. I'd bet my pit against your cur that not a single person in here, especially the women, knows how to use one let alone has ever used one. Read someone earlier write, "and you should always have a break stick in your back pocket."

What a brilliant way to get someone seriously hurt. Genius idea, suggest these first timers shove their hand in the middle of a fight between a pit and a mutt. BRILLIANT.
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Breaksticks are much more humane and manageable that feeling rubbing alcohol!! That's asinine thinking that safe for your dog. I have had 2 incidents of off leash dogs charging and wnded up needing a breakstick and was able to keep my dog and their safe by using and having one close.

As to the OP the reason people who own dog that will be lumped into a label like Pit Bull is because the little aggressive yappy dog will not be killed for being aggressive. A pit bull type dog will be. As owners you need to respect some people and plenty of BSL think your dog is a killer. That's why I take extra precautions.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Lol who said anything about shock collars, I sure didn't and I've never had to use one. Every post you make shows more and more that you don't know what your doing? A break stick is a good way to get someone hurt? Really? If you think that then you obviously have no clue what your talking about and how to properly use one. Instead of flipping out and struggling trying to pull apart dogs, if a break stick is handy you wil be able to part the dogs with outh the risk out tearing them up as you pull on them. And the fact that you keep referring to them as Pits says a lot as well. Are you saying you've had 5 generations of "pit bull" looking shelter dogs or are you talking about APBTs? And what bloodline are your dogs?
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hotchkiss View Post
Pits have been in my family for five generations. Without a doubt, I know pits. Shock collars and biting collars and all those garbage products have little to no use.

What's a shock collar going to you if your dog gets in a fight? There is a very good reason I carry rubbing alcohol with me every morning I exercise my dogs, it's the most humane means of breaking up a fight.

...And if I hear someone start talking about breaking sticks, I'm going to stick one in someone's eye. I'd bet my pit against your cur that not a single person in here, especially the women, knows how to use one let alone has ever used one. Read someone earlier write, "and you should always have a break stick in your back pocket."

What a brilliant way to get someone seriously hurt. Genius idea, suggest these first timers shove their hand in the middle of a fight between a pit and a mutt. BRILLIANT.
You know after reading through your last thread and some of your other posts it's not hard to see what the problem is. You seem to open your mouth when you know absolutely nothing about the topic. You're a poser just a pretender with dogs you have little knowledge of. In fact until I see a ped I'm going to call them mutts and until you speak of something that's not total and utter bs I'm going to call you an Idiot.
Answer me this though how does using a breakstick get people hurt?? The dog is on the other dog and he's holding on and then you come in with the breakstick and break them up. That's all that should happen. If anything else happens then it's your fault for not being able to handle the situation. I really hope you don't own APBTs. I really do. If so then you have a lot of knowledge to catch up on regardless of how many generations of dogs were in your family. You can't even leash walk a dog. That's ridiculous.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotchkiss View Post
Pits have been in my family for five generations. Without a doubt, I know pits. Shock collars and biting collars and all those garbage products have little to no use.

What's a shock collar going to you if your dog gets in a fight? There is a very good reason I carry rubbing alcohol with me every morning I exercise my dogs, it's the most humane means of breaking up a fight.

...And if I hear someone start talking about breaking sticks, I'm going to stick one in someone's eye. I'd bet my pit against your cur that not a single person in here, especially the women, knows how to use one let alone has ever used one. Read someone earlier write, "and you should always have a break stick in your back pocket."

What a brilliant way to get someone seriously hurt. Genius idea, suggest these first timers shove their hand in the middle of a fight between a pit and a mutt. BRILLIANT.
1st, im glad youve had these dogs for 5 gens... but that doesnt mean shit... if anything that could simply mean that you have only been taught rediculous forms of training such as your running alcohol method.

2nd, ur dog shouldnt be getting in fights if you have control of them! what are u doing while they are walking? i mean jesus christ get control of your mutt. and i said use a prong collar not a shock collar. FOR TRAINING. train your dog to walk correctly, by using a prong collar and poppin the collar when they are not walking correctly. HELLO! thats a method used to train dogs to walk properly. hence when a dog is trained to walk correctly, and ignor other dogs, u wont get into a scrap and have to break up a fight... its call preventative maintenance.

and how is rubbin alcohol humane?! that breaks up a fight?! bullshit! im sorry but your wrong here. if you ask anyone who has dealt with a serious fight with these dogs, its not going to "sidetrack" them from the need to win that fight. to me it just sounds like your a trigger happy bafoon letting your dogs run loose.

and last, id like to add, that i carry a breakstick, and i am female. i know how to use it and have used it to break up a gs fight at a police bitework training. no one is telling new owners to go out and use a breakstick without looking into it and educating them on how to properly use them. so get off your "oh i have had them for 5 gens" high horse and give useful advice to ppl instead of passing on your own retarded methods. because ur methods are far from brilliant, let me tell u.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kg420 View Post
I have done extensive training with this dog and we actively compete in dock diving where he is out with tons of other barking dogs all day. All I have to do is put him in a down stay and he doesn't move until I say so. I also do weight pull training with him, he is incredibly strong and has no problem pulling my weight but he will NOT pull on a walk if he's put in heel position.
perfect example of how your dog should act!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
You know after reading through your last thread and some of your other posts it's not hard to see what the problem is. You seem to open your mouth when you know absolutely nothing about the topic. You're a poser just a pretender with dogs you have little knowledge of. In fact until I see a ped I'm going to call them mutts and until you speak of something that's not total and utter bs I'm going to call you an Idiot.
Answer me this though how does using a breakstick get people hurt?? The dog is on the other dog and he's holding on and then you come in with the breakstick and break them up. That's all that should happen. If anything else happens then it's your fault for not being able to handle the situation. I really hope you don't own APBTs. I really do. If so then you have a lot of knowledge to catch up on regardless of how many generations of dogs were in your family. You can't even leash walk a dog. That's ridiculous.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:52 AM   #15 (permalink)
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hotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scale
hotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scalehotchkiss is off the scale
Ok, so let me get this right, it's OK for you to suggest someone bear mace the neighbor's dog if it approaches you while you're walking, (bear mace having insanely toxic chemicals that can cause permanent damage to the eyes and nasal cavity) but rubbing alcohol (which is completely innocuous, just burns for a while) is inhumane?

As far as "serious pit fights," how serious does it need to be? Broken bones? Cuts from ear hole to nose hole with the top lip hanging below the bottom? A missing eye? All that can happen in less than a minute.

So while you're running around behind the dogs while they fight at 100 miles per hour, waiting for one to quit enough so the other can pin him down, the damage is done. You dump rubbing alcohol on their heads the moment it gets started and you prevent alot of damage.

My wife and her Dad used to swear by break sticks, but now my wife does the same thing I do. Meanwhile, her dad's running around like an idiot trying to get position so he can jam that damn thing in the top dog's mouth and make a teeth shattering twist... and all he's doing is wasting time.

On the other hand, it's not nearly as cool to throw a bottle of rubbing alcohol in your day pack as it is to tell someone why you have an antler hanging out of your back pocket, (yea, I know, they don't use antlers nor sticks anymore) "it's cuz I have a pit bull and they're super bad ass and their jaws lock like a vice when they fight; (please don't waste your time telling me that their jaws don't really lock) it's like totally wicked man, so I have this horn so I can breakup a fight" (and yes, I know an antler isn't a horn).

You can be cool and waste time which increases the odds of serious injury, or you can be practical. In my book, cool is a waste of time, literally.

Last edited by hotchkiss; 11-26-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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