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Old 12-20-2012, 07:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
 

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my dogs really went at it this time.

Hi, i am new to these forums and i joined because i came across something i need help with that is pertaining to my dogs. I have two dogs. Both babies. both around two years old with Luna 1/4 pit/ 3/4 black lab about 2 1/2 years old, had her since she was about 4-5 months old. Steve yes Steve the big blue nose, hes pure but im not sure what bloodline, it was complicated a situation when i acquired him. he is about 2 years and 3 months old and i have had him since he was 2 weeks old. Heres a pic of them. I am trying to be as detailed as possible so you guys can help me out as much as possible. Luna is spattered and steve is not.
[IMG][/IMG]

up until 5 months ago i wasn't able to live with my dogs anymore because of a housing situation i had to move back into a condo, and wasn't able to keep my dogs. My dogs have then sense been at my dads house which a nice large yard and a garage which is small and where they usually stay. My father has raised dogs his whole life and definitely knows how to take care of them. I have no doubt at all about my dad so that isn't the issue.

Growing up luna has always been the dominant one, alpha female if you will call it, she has always tried and does mount steve. Whenever attention is given to steve she gets jealous but never does anything out of line. Shes an attention whore lets just say that. If steve chews a bone she has to have it, and she doesn't even chew bones, i swear only because steve chewed it she chews it. 2 times in their life these two got into a fight and steve was the hurt one, luna wasn't even touched. Once it was my fault i threw a bunch of steak and they got into a fight over it.

Steve on the other hand is the most misunderstood, he is a complete baby, scared of a plastic bag, rolls over on his back instantly. whimpers all the time, hes never the instigator, believe me i know he isn't.

For the most part i always play with them, i walk them everyday, they sit when i say sit, the know what to do and what not to do. They are very very obedient. I have raised them well. They aren't mean at all around other people they never have attempted to bite anyone else even.

One time my neighbors dog got under my fence at my fathers and luna did kill the dog and steve watched, he had no blood on his face this is how i know this, luna hunts the squirrels, steve chews his bone, two total different personalities.

Well yesterday my father came home to Luna almost dead, torn up so bad she couldn't walk, steve was barley hurt. I think he had enough of her shit, im not sure however. I feel horrible to crate these dogs or put mussels on them or even get rid of one, as they sleep together curled up every night, they always play and never fight, but this one time could have been much worse.

What do i do? i will dedicate all my time i have to do this, in these past 6 months was in my last semester of my business degree, time has been so short but i am finished now, and i know i have neglected them at my fathers and i feel bad, but i know i have raised good dogs, i never let them act out of control, i have always trained them well so people can meet them and be impressed how well they listen to me. But i can't be there 24/7 and im scared of what will happen next time.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
 

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Its really hard to have two bully breeds in one home. I really wish there was a simple answer too this. Id ask a trainer if i was you just to see what he/she will say
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Size:  14.5 KB mine was so close Bestfriends in the end I had to split them up and it's upsets me so much because of how close they was not to put u down but in the end for me the only option was splitting them up I hope u can have different outcome


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Old 12-20-2012, 01:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Rule number one with owning bully breeds. Never trust them not to fight! It is in their genetic makeup. Just like guarding breeds guard, herding breeds herd, hunting breeds hunt. Hope that makes sense.
There are many owners who have multiple bully breeds. They crate and rotate. It's not that hard to do either. Use the search tool at the top and look it up I would also do some obedience training. While dog aggression can not be trained out, it can be managed with training.
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Rule number one with owning bully breeds. Never trust them not to fight! It is in their genetic makeup. Just like guarding breeds guard, herding breeds herd, hunting breeds hunt. Hope that makes sense.
There are many owners who have multiple bully breeds. They crate and rotate. It's not that hard to do either. Use the search tool at the top and look it up I would also do some obedience training. While dog aggression can not be trained out, it can be managed with training.
and rule #2 is to not leave 2 bully breeds alone unsupervised. i currently have 2 males in my household. my boy Odin who is almost 2 years old and my foster dog Boss who is about 9 months old. and now that they are used to each other they are starting to curl up and sleep together too but trust me that when i go to bed or go to work they are separated. so yea crating is the easy answer or since they sound like yard dogs u can look into outdoor dog kennels or dog runs. u can find them on Craigslist often too. that way the dogs still have room to move and chew on bones and what not. just a thought.
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Never leave them unsupervised together. That's the first rule of bull breed life. If you can't see it, you can't stop it. If they get along with supervision, there's no reason to deny them that. But carefully manage triggers (ie, steak, bones). And when humans are departing, dogs get separated. Getting rid of either dog is an unfair outcome; they're just doing what dogs (bull breeds in particular) do. Having dogs that don't get along is a common scenario with these guys.
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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There was a whole bunch of red flags for you that being uneducated on this breed you let go. The fights before hand should have been your warning and you should have taken action at that time. As well some of the major triggers that start fights you mentioned in your post , jealousy { more attention to one}, feeding together, are all big triggers. As well as when you are not there or not able to supervise they should be seperated , crated ect. Crating is not a bad thing and in fact once used to it they may even like being in there. I would crate for feeding times and when you are not home, in there crates you can give them there chew toys to keep them busy.
I have dogs who grew up together and then things changed one day. They say DA can kick in at any age but typical is 1-2 years when they mature. So sounds to me like yours are right in that range.
Hard lesson to learn but hope you learned it. I would do some reading on here, you can use the search button at the top and type in DA or Dog aggression. Many threads on that topic already.
Hope your girl is doing ok now
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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There was a whole bunch of red flags for you that being uneducated on this breed you let go. The fights before hand should have been your warning and you should have taken action at that time. As well some of the major triggers that start fights you mentioned in your post , jealousy { more attention to one}, feeding together, are all big triggers. As well as when you are not there or not able to supervise they should be seperated , crated ect. Crating is not a bad thing and in fact once used to it they may even like being in there. I would crate for feeding times and when you are not home, in there crates you can give them there chew toys to keep them busy.
I have dogs who grew up together and then things changed one day. They say DA can kick in at any age but typical is 1-2 years when they mature. So sounds to me like yours are right in that range.
Hard lesson to learn but hope you learned it. I would do some reading on here, you can use the search button at the top and type in DA or Dog aggression. Many threads on that topic already.
Hope your girl is doing ok now


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Old 12-20-2012, 05:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
 

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WOW thank you so much for the information and help everyone has recommended. I would never sell or give one of them away so ill do what i have to do. I though I was being cruel keeping them in cages when im gone but i guess throw a bone in there and they will love it/ get used to it. I am purchasing a house this summer and will have to have some kind of dog walk installed for both of them, that sounds like the best possibility when i am NOT there. So temperately two kennels will have to do.

So is there an age where i can let me be together again when i am gone? when their older presumably? thanks again everyone, i really appreciate the information everyone has offered to me!!
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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I would never chance them together alone again , even when they are older. Actually older I find they get even grouchier , like old people lol and may be more tempermental to start crap. Just play it safe, if they get along while you supervise then be happy you can have them both out when you are there. I have a couple who just can't be together EVER regardless if im watching. Just don't set them up to fail again.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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They will not outgrow their issues. Unfortunately, when two dogs start fighting, they get better and better at it the more they scrap. My two dogs have lived a rotation lifestyle for about 4 years now. Their first fight resulted in barely any bloodshed. Their last fight (last year) injured all of us, and they wasted no time getting to the nitty gritty. Don't leave them alone together. That's just tempting fate.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
 

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good to know, and i agree with what you are all saying. So im sure this question has been asked but while i have your guy's attention here i may as well ask. I would love to take my dogs to dog parts and let them play. What i thought would be best is take them one by one with dog mussels on and see how they react. Any advice you guys could give me?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
 

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good to know, and i agree with what you are all saying. So im sure this question has been asked but while i have your guy's attention here i may as well ask. I would love to take my dogs to dog parts and let them play. What i thought would be best is take them one by one with dog mussels on and see how they react. Any advice you guys could give me?
Dont bring them to dog parks. Even one at a time and muzzled.
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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This is why I consider the APBT primarily a "fighting" breed...."performance", etc. breed secondary. This is my opinion of course. To the OP, sorry to hear about your situation, but good advise has been given. For me, I've always ruled with a loving, yet iron fist around the house and it has paid off. No real incidents with the sets of males I've owned thus far, but I really keep an eye on things whether at the food dish, or when someone enters my house and the excitement begins, to when they're in bed with me at night. They are separated when I'm not available. You really have to work hard at reading their mannerisms and predicting the outcomes...basically you have to think like an APBT. It's a dedication that some people aren't ready for. Living alone affords me the luxury of being the alpha male without having other distractions thrown into the mix, which makes my situation a bit more unusual than most. Good luck.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:08 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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I've been through 3 serious dog fights all of which ended up with one or both at the vet and $1000 in vet bills and surgeries. We C&R after the initial fight and did great. My one boy which I had to pts in the end was a plotter. He would plot until an opportunity presented itself. The final incident he broke through his barrier causing damage to not only the dogs but myself. For everyone's safety C&R and avoid all types of triggers. You have already mentioned some in your post, there could be many more. Hoping it will change is fool-hearted. You can manage it but it will never be cured if you are willing to work hard at it. Exercise and spend time with each one individually and they will love the time spent together and the C&R won't seem as bad. Never take a bully to a dog park even if muzzled. They can come off or a fight can break out and trust me your bully will be blamed even if he they weren't involved. It's the nature of the beast in having a bully breed. Good luck and hoping Luna heals quickly.
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