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Old 12-29-2012, 11:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
 

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Ames I have lived the best part of my life in the uk where BSL is rife staffy's and so being killed by the dosen as pitbulls, those where not my intentions. euthenasia is not a big problem in Greece apart from farmers shooting dogs although I must say there are more dog killings by their owners because they did not take the time to train them thus creating unbalanced dogs that lash out so the owners feel its the dogs fault in misbehaving and their duty to eliminate it and the merigo goes around, more and more people just let them stray so there is a growing problem with strays. but again as I said if I didn't care I wouldn't have got stray dogs I would have bought a couple ! they have cost us far more than just buying with all vacs, chips etc.. already in.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
 

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You should have spayed and aborted, enough mutts in the world.. Should appreciate a good dog no matter? What has your dogs done to earn this? No matter i know how it goes.

Spay and neuter your mutts to prevent future mutts, spay and neuter the litter and hopefully none will end up in a shelter or to someone not spayed or neutered to be bred out the ass.

Dogs are good dogs according to their handlers, a true good dog earns the keep.. Suck up the pride and pay attention to truth

You cant promote what you dont know..
You will be surprised how a country boy from Greece that just happens to travelled around the world, with livestock is able to work his dogs, Damn my wife works our dogs and she is FINISH :-) But I guess they do have quite of a hunting culture in their roots to, but at the same time they are still pets !! Each to his own I guess
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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There is evidence both ways regarding early spay and neutering. There are pros and cons to both early just as there are pros and cons to waiting. I personally see no reason for pets not to be spayed or neutered. Therefore I understand if responsible people choose to keep their dogs intact. Its totally not my business. I will say you going on your honeymoon is perfectly acceptable. I just went on vacation and had a sitter. Don't get it twisted. Thats not the issues. Having them watched by someone who was irresponsible means you didn't act responsibly by finding a sitter who took proper care. You're guilty/irresponsible by default IMO. In any case, it doesn't really matter I only commented cause you mentioned it. and I do hope the pups and mum are healthy and everything is ok. I strongly feel what's done is done and just hope it doesn't happen again. I do wish you luck and I do love pictures...


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Last edited by ames; 12-30-2012 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:54 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Bottom line is you were irresponsible. You didn't handle your business and your bitch ended up pregnant. Those pups are mutts and you choosing to not spay or neuter those pups will result in more pups and more pups. Over population starts with people like yourself. There are cons to getting them fixed but the pros outweigh the cons by a ton. You created this problem with your irresponsibility, you clean it up and since its too late to get a spay abort on your dog. Fix the pups before you rehome them. It's that simple.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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You had an accidental breeding, yet you consider yourself to be a 'responsible' owner, correct? THAT is why you spay/neuter your pups before placement. It takes the burden of 'oops' off the next people. They might want to get married or live life too. Crap happens. You, yourself, have firsthand knowledge of that. Spay your bitch, neuter your male and speuter those pups before placement too. Please.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
 

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Happy New Year !!

Thanx guys Goats milk worked wonders, I got goats milk powder ( made milk ) and mixed it in with her food, since she has been eating like there is no tomorrow :-)
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:58 PM   #22 (permalink)
 
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As a breeder for the sake of the puppies I will give you advice.... then I will tell you what I really think ......

I love this website it's like a whelping and breeding online book for dummies
This page talks about right after the pups are born
Whelping Puppies, PostPartum Dam

This talks about the puppies from birth to 3 weeks
Breeding Dogs, Puppies from Birth to 3 weeks

Now for the concerning part, IT IS NOT NORMAL FOR PUPPIES TO BE CRYING ALL THE TIME! They can make a little noise but if they are crying a lot then there could be a problem with the moms milk. There is also something called fading puppy syndrome. This can happen at any time but up to about 3 weeks of age. It starts with crying and they could go on like this for a week or so before dying. Many times with fading puppies there is nothing you can do.
Whelping Stories: Trying to Save a Fading Dachshund Puppy

Your bitch should be on a good quality puppy food, water always availbe, and you can use some goats milk to help get her going again. I would feed your bitch 3 times a day for now if she will eat it. You will also use goats milk when you start to wean the puppies at about 4-5 weeks.

Now for how I feel about it.....
You are an irresponsible owner for not finding someone responsible enough to watch your dogs. If you were gone for 3 days then you already knew your bitch was in season and should ave made it very clear to the person watching your house to make sure they didn't breed. A females heat cycle is about 21 days long not 3 days. This is being irresponsible so take responsibility for your actions. I am a firm believer in waiting till the dogs are mature before fixing them but ONLY if the owner is responsible enough not to let them breed. Since you can't keep them from breeding then you should get at least one of them fixed now. Yes accidents do happen but instead of making excuses you take responsibility, that determines if you can learn from them or you just are going to do what you want.....
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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I think the point your missing is how many dogs, mutts or otherwise, are already being killed everyday. Why add to the population. Not sure why country you live in but in the states we have HUGE problems with BSL (breed specific legislation) where they will ban any dog with a blocky head and a short coat and call it a pit bull. It's wrong. Just like when the media and society label a do based on looks. It's a disservice to every dog to allow them to be lumped into a category. If you have no clue what the lineage is for your dog, its a mutt just like my dog is. I don't love him any less because i don't know what he is and he is the best dog out there. There is NO REASON to breed mutts. There are a lot of papered dogs who should not be bred as well. Papers don't mean you should breed. There are many many factors to take into consideration before adding to the thousands of dogs already out there.

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Agree! Why would you continue to breed dogs were the majority of these types of dogs and mutts end up in shelters?? A dog should not be breed just because it has a good temperment. There are plenty of dogs out there especially mutts who are filling up shelters, why take the risk of adding to those numbers?
I guess the main question I want to ask you is why do you feel the need to breed your dogs/mutts when there are plenty of good healthy homeless dogs out there that need homes? What cause are you helping? Or are you just breeding your dogs to make a quick buck?

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You should have spayed and aborted, enough mutts in the world..
Slightly harsh don't you think? His female got pregnant, obvioulsy this shouldn't have happened but it did. Why abort them just because they are mutts? My family has owned papered dogs and mutts, and I'm sure a lot of other people on this board with mutts agree with me when I say my mutts have been some of the best dogs we've owned. Being a mutt doesn't make them bad dogs. I would never support breeding a mutt but I would also never support aborting a batch of puppies because they are mutts.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Slightly harsh don't you think? His female got pregnant, obvioulsy this shouldn't have happened but it did. Why abort them just because they are mutts? My family has owned papered dogs and mutts, and I'm sure a lot of other people on this board with mutts agree with me when I say my mutts have been some of the best dogs we've owned. Being a mutt doesn't make them bad dogs. I would never support breeding a mutt but I would also never support aborting a batch of puppies because they are mutts.
Not harsh at all, go to any shelter and you will find plenty of mutts no need homes, why bring more dogs into the world when you have a choice not to. It's a pretty simple fix to a problem.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:16 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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Not harsh at all, go to any shelter and you will find plenty of mutts no need homes, why bring more dogs into the world when you have a choice not to. It's a pretty simple fix to a problem.
This is were we are going to have to agree to disagree I can see where you are coming from if you believe the unborn pups are not yet a life. I believe aborting is like murder so human or dog I personally don't agree with it. To me aborting the pups is like euthanizing them when they are born, I at least think they deserve a chance. But this thread isn't about that and we obviously won't agree, and I honeslty don't want to change your opinion
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:06 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Leave breeding for designed purpose function and beneficial to both breed, yard and man. You want a good family pet? Go to a shelter. You want a unintentially bred mutt for no reason other than it happend? Go to the shelter. Harsh? No, it is what it is.If i had an oops moment or irresponsibly kept my female in heat and got preg, the pups are going to be aborded. No point in adding to the population or absolute no reason.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:12 PM   #27 (permalink)
 
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This is were we are going to have to agree to disagree I can see where you are coming from if you believe the unborn pups are not yet a life. I believe aborting is like murder so human or dog I personally don't agree with it. To me aborting the pups is like euthanizing them when they are born, I at least think they deserve a chance. But this thread isn't about that and we obviously won't agree, and I honeslty don't want to change your opinion
So you'd rather them waste away in a shelter or be euthanized? Because that's what happens to the majority of bully breed mixes. Puppies or not, it doesn't matter. It's not just aborting them because they're mutts, it's because they're are already MILLIONS of MUTTS dying in shelters. Specifically bully breed mutts.


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Old 01-02-2013, 11:29 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Ya know I thought it was kinda sad when Ryan took MJ in for the spay/abort but I totally understand and stand by his decision. I know it was for the best.
Sometimes you just need to think about the breed as a whole, not just one or two dogs, and do the right thing. If you can't afford to keep and raise every puppy you produce then you shouldn't bring any more into the world. If an owner can no longer care for one and you can't take it back where do you think it will go? To the pound to be destroyed Over breeding is a huge problem and because of it more and more dogs died every day to make room for the new ones.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:42 PM   #29 (permalink)
 

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Thnx for the replies, PERFOMANCE KENNELS - the mum is being free fed at the moment on high quality puppy food with water always available and since I started the goats milk she is looking much better.

Sorry I didn't reply about the puppies I think I got a bit carried away with the posts :-), she has 10 puppies and probably because of sleep depravity staying up most of the night worrying that she will squash them and rescuing the puppies for the first few days until she figured out what she was doing !! ( she is in the house now ), I failed to process in my head all the information :-)
So now I have figured out the reasons for all the crying ( or I think so anyway )
1 - half of the puppies sleeping the other half step over them to get to milk ( crying )
2 - once they get to milk crying over who will get best pick ( crying )
3 - puppy strayed away from mum a little bit ( crying )
4 - mum moves pups around as she cleans them ( crying )
5 - a bit of a sqeek at sleep time when they jerk ( I heard this is normal ? )
All of whom make sense and as I get abit more sleep nowadays It does not seem that bad ( guess a bit grumpy and it seemed worse than it was !! )

Now so many people have been bashing me for THINKING ABOUT IT when it comes to sterilizing young puppies, as I had said that I would do my best with the new owners wasn't enough, but I took the liberty today when most shops etc.. where open fter new year and looking at it with the vet and shelters, it turns out that there's a law in Greece saying that you are not allowed to sterilize any puppy/dog that is younger than 6 YES 6 months of age its illegal !!!
So I am left with two options keep the pups until they are 6 months old fix them and then find them homes or apply some sort of written agreement, any ideas ?

As for the breeding part I didn't say that I would breed my male just because he had good temperament ??? someone else though sought and people just assumed that was my point of view !!! without ( probably ) reading my replies. I don't think that you should breed a dog just because of that, there are many more factors that come into play, genetics, structure, and for whatever use the dog will be used for etc.......

Secondly please read the posts, I said that I would breed considering we got hold of papers, that does not mean that I am determined to breed him NO, but it does mean that if a good female comes up and the puppies have already been secured to good homes ( as that's how I believe breeders should do it, you can agree to disagree ) than yes there could be a possibility to breed him.
Considering the fact that I have been approached by countless amount of people that wanted to breed with him and I haven't for various reasons (but just saying :-).
As with the female being fixed I have clarified that in another POST ( not going to bother reposting !! )
People keep banging on about DONT BREED DONT BREED, you will just ad to those on the street.
I strongly disagree with you, the actual problem is with the owners not the number of DOG'S ( to a certain extent of course )
someone said that would I be able to take care of the pups myself if so and so etc.. !! ( probably not all of them even if I could feed them as 12 dogs need allot of time and hard work in order for them to become well balanced dogs.
Concerning to that I have a cancer stricken 80% paralized dad at home we take care of and a wife 9 months pregnant it will be allot of work !!!!!
On the other hand I now a few people who could not take care of their dogs but taking the time found them very loving and caring homes.
So I am a very strong believer in that, and here is a piece of an article by the city shelter that says pretty much the same thing !!

It’s worth mentioning that from the 3,000 stray animals, as estimated, at the Heraklion Municipality, only one fourth are really stray animals, while the rest are dogs left by their owners to walk around unsupervised.
There are many complaints regarding great numbers of stray dogs in particular areas within the city of Heraklion. But when the personnel of the kennel reaches these areas discovers that these are housed animals that do not bear the necessary microchip and wander around without the supervision of their owner.

and here the website
Measures for Stray Dogs in Heraklion - The Animals Shelter in Heraklion
if anyone wants to check
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:00 AM   #30 (permalink)
 
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The puppies sound normal to me, and now for some tough love....
As a breeder myself I do not think your male is a good example of the breed conformationally. If you want post up some more pictures in a stack and I will show you what I am talking about and compare your dog to the UKC and ADBA standard. With that said leave the breeding to the breeders who already have good stock to choose from. Sterilize your dogs, keep a pup or two, and be a happy pitty owner. You don't have to be a breeder to have dogs!

With the pups you have now I agree about the S/N NO dog should be S or N younger than 18 months IMO. To S/N a pup at under 3 months IMO is WRONG! Adopt the pups out on contract and hope the owners stick to it and do the right thing.
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