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Old 01-04-2013, 05:41 PM   #31 (permalink)
 

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Thnx, performance kennels
I would appreciate your opinion on what you think of him, I took a look at your site BTW seems like you got some nice dogs m8.

Here are some fresh pics that I took today, not too good but will give an idea.
He is a bit chubby at the moment, as with my wife being at the end of her pregnancy he has not been in his usual long workouts.
And bfore people start going ape its not like hes not even getting to go out :-)
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:12 PM   #32 (permalink)
 
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He looks like a very tall dog, how tall is he?

First thing I notice is his tail is very thick with what looks like thick longer hair. APBT's tails should not look like that. He looks cow hocked on the rear end you can tell by the direction his feet are pointing. HE looks like he also lacks good angulation in the rear. In the first picture you see more of a natural stack and the lack of angulation, the second picture you see angulation but you can tell that is a stacked photo. Now of course i can't tell for sure but that's what it looks like. His underline looks ok for UKC standard.
Chest could be deeper it's a little shallow and he lacks forechest. In the first picture you can see his lack of forest and depth as his feet are very close together, then in the second picture his front feet are further apart but his elbows are sticking out. My guess is he moves like a train wreck based on what I see in his rear and shoulders. His shoulders are very straight and you can also see how the skin on his back goes into a roll above the shoulders. That is a good indication of straight shoulders. I can see the angulation is not good but for someone who doesn't know what to look for that's an easy place to start. Since I'm comparing him to the UKC standard his pasterns are very weak. His neck looks too long but that could just be how he is being held. His head is too big and blocky with his muzzle being too short for his long his skull is. He also has really big flews (lips are way too big and droopy) Over all I see a dog with poor breed type for UKC and he definitely does not meet ADBA standard.

Now I'm sure he is a great pet and he is pretty to look at but when you compare him to the breed standard then he is a mess conformationally. There is no perfect dog, I can give you several things about all my dogs I find wrong however they have good breed type and meet standard. The little things in the ring will determine placement as where your guy has some major structural faults. If you want to be a breeder then do some research and start off with good stock don't just use what you have. Again I'm not saying this to put you down I'm simply pointing out things wrong with your dog compared to standard. Now can you find a dog in UKC who has won or is a CH with some big faults? yes you can and that's the judges fault for putting unsound dogs up. But as a whole to preserve the breed we should be breeding for sound dogs.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:35 PM   #33 (permalink)
 
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So you'd rather them waste away in a shelter or be euthanized? Because that's what happens to the majority of bully breed mixes. Puppies or not, it doesn't matter. It's not just aborting them because they're mutts, it's because they're are already MILLIONS of MUTTS dying in shelters. Specifically bully breed mutts.


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I get what you are saying and this is where I struggle. I know that their chances for a good home can be slim and it could be more humane to just get them aborted as pups so they dont' have to go through all that pain. This makes PERFECT sense to me!
But I can't help but struggle with the issue of why I'm special enough to make the choice to take an innocent life. Again bear with me that I feel abortion is like murder. If that life is never given a chance who knows what greatness will never be?
I honestly don't know exaclty how I feel about this issue. I think not taking others feelings and beliefs into consideration is harsh, but honestly I get where you are coming from. Like I said, I don't want to change your guys mind for one reason of not knowing where I stand exactly on this issue myself.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:09 PM   #34 (permalink)
 

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In terms of high he is about 22 inches to the top of his back ..

Thnx for the info so in laymen's terms not good breeding stock in terms of UKC APBT standard ?

His rear did come out bad in the pics he is not cow hocked at all ?
But he does move pretty well ( considering his size of course :-)

But I defiantly don't know how to spot flat shoulders need to do some more research on that !

Oh those droopy lips yeah he is.

I mean yeah he is a good pet and a very hard working dog but if he is not a good breed standard there's no point breeding him.

In terms of being a breeder I wouldn't do it professionally,
but as I am doing more research it seems like APBT are diminishing !! and specially good specimens ( mine is one I guess ) in our part of the world anyway, but depending how it goes with the puppies if we are able to find them all good homes and we don't have to keep any,
then we might be able to get a couple of GOOD dogs in terms of pedigree and structurally to breed locationally if there are some people interested in proper APBT. especially when you can consider that HERE even pitbull show organisers split red nose/black nose dogs into two different categories as they are different breed types of APBT apparently :-( and loads more.
I think it would be fair on the breed to at least have a couple of representatives for their breed from linage.
If you get my drift.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:25 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I get what you are saying and this is where I struggle. I know that their chances for a good home can be slim and it could be more humane to just get them aborted as pups so they dont' have to go through all that pain. This makes PERFECT sense to me!
But I can't help but struggle with the issue of why I'm special enough to make the choice to take an innocent life. Again bear with me that I feel abortion is like murder. If that life is never given a chance who knows what greatness will never be?
I honestly don't know exaclty how I feel about this issue. I think not taking others feelings and beliefs into consideration is harsh, but honestly I get where you are coming from. Like I said, I don't want to change your guys mind for one reason of not knowing where I stand exactly on this issue myself.
Is putting a horse who has a broken leg down murder??... Aren't all animals considered innocent so the death of any animal should be considered murder. All animals from flys to cows. So the food you eat is the result of an innocent life being murdered. Or do only the lives of dogs count? Why not the lives of insects? I just don't understand your reasoning. Is it only a murder of innocence if they are aborted or should we wait until they are two years old and do it? I get the part about not knowing if perhaps there is greatness in that litter of mutts, however the statistics are greatly against that. So again your reasoning behind your statement is a bit strange to me. Even the Christian God places the lives of animals below those of man.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:11 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I get what you are saying and this is where I struggle. I know that their chances for a good home can be slim and it could be more humane to just get them aborted as pups so they dont' have to go through all that pain. This makes PERFECT sense to me!
But I can't help but struggle with the issue of why I'm special enough to make the choice to take an innocent life. Again bear with me that I feel abortion is like murder. If that life is never given a chance who knows what greatness will never be?
I honestly don't know exaclty how I feel about this issue. I think not taking others feelings and beliefs into consideration is harsh, but honestly I get where you are coming from. Like I said, I don't want to change your guys mind for one reason of not knowing where I stand exactly on this issue myself.
youre the bigger, more powerful animal
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:44 PM   #37 (permalink)
 
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Is putting a horse who has a broken leg down murder??... Aren't all animals considered innocent so the death of any animal should be considered murder. All animals from flys to cows. So the food you eat is the result of an innocent life being murdered. Or do only the lives of dogs count? Why not the lives of insects? I just don't understand your reasoning. Is it only a murder of innocence if they are aborted or should we wait until they are two years old and do it? I get the part about not knowing if perhaps there is greatness in that litter of mutts, however the statistics are greatly against that. So again your reasoning behind your statement is a bit strange to me. Even the Christian God places the lives of animals below those of man.
I personally would try EVERYTHING in my power to fix the broken leg of that horse, whether it meant vet bills destroying my credit and having to live in my car (if I'm lucky) lol. Technically yes eating cows/chicken is considered murder, but I believe God put certain animals on this earth to be a source of food and certain animals to be companions. But if you are killing the animal to stay alive and use it for good, rather than just killing an animal because it MIGHT not have a good life to me are two different things. Its like hunting, if someone has to go out and kill an animal for food and nutrition well, that's why God put those animals here. But if they are hunting an animal because they want a trophy or because they deem that animal unfit, I'm against that. I wouldn't kill an insect either unless it was hazard.
And again I know what you are saying that statisically it doesn't look good for mutts. But I guess I'd rather give them a chance then having to sign their death papers without knowing. I mean, I'm glad I was given a chance, I guess I'd like to pass that favor on.
And yes animals are below man, but I also think the greatness of a nation can be judge by how they treat their animals. Just because you have control over something or someone doesn't mean that you should abuse that privilege.
You don't understand my reasoning, because its MY reasoning lol. I don't view this world as black and white which is a lot of what your above statement is about. We have two different opinions You don't understand my reasoning and I don't understand your reasoning of lumping everything into one catagory when to me every thing is so different and unique.
I CAN see where you are coming from with the puppies however and if you think it's better for the sake of the pups to abort them then that's your choice :-) Afterall God gave us free will. But I also see the side of giving the lives a chance.
The real source of the problem are people over breeding and not spaying/nuetering their dogs. The problem are not the puppies its the people who are creating the puppies.

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youre the bigger, more powerful animal
True but I don't think someone more bigger or powerful than myself should have the right to chose the outcome of my life. Why should I be able to chose the outcome of the puppies life?
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:55 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I personally would try EVERYTHING in my power to fix the broken leg of that horse, whether it meant vet bills destroying my credit and having to live in my car (if I'm lucky) lol. Technically yes eating cows/chicken is considered murder, but I believe God put certain animals on this earth to be a source of food and certain animals to be companions. But if you are killing the animal to stay alive and use it for good, rather than just killing an animal because it MIGHT not have a good life to me are two different things. Its like hunting, if someone has to go out and kill an animal for food and nutrition well, that's why God put those animals here. But if they are hunting an animal because they want a trophy or because they deem that animal unfit, I'm against that. I wouldn't kill an insect either unless it was hazard.
And again I know what you are saying that statisically it doesn't look good for mutts. But I guess I'd rather give them a chance then having to sign their death papers without knowing. I mean, I'm glad I was given a chance, I guess I'd like to pass that favor on.
And yes animals are below man, but I also think the greatness of a nation can be judge by how they treat their animals. Just because you have control over something or someone doesn't mean that you should abuse that privilege.
You don't understand my reasoning, because its MY reasoning lol. I don't view this world as black and white which is a lot of what your above statement is about. We have two different opinions You don't understand my reasoning and I don't understand your reasoning of lumping everything into one catagory when to me every thing is so different and unique.
I CAN see where you are coming from with the puppies however and if you think it's better for the sake of the pups to abort them then that's your choice :-) Afterall God gave us free will. But I also see the side of giving the lives a chance.
The real source of the problem are people over breeding and not spaying/nuetering their dogs. The problem are not the puppies its the people who are creating the puppies.



True but I don't think someone more bigger or powerful than myself should have the right to chose the outcome of my life. Why should I be able to chose the outcome of the puppies life?
I dig the fact that you have an opinion and won't drag this on by pointing out possible contradictions or even the religious side of the spectrum, because we would be waay off topic. I do hope you eat organic and not the cloned meat at the grocery store or your argument would be lost.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:31 AM   #39 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Greek-Pits-2013 View Post
In terms of high he is about 22 inches to the top of his back ..

Thnx for the info so in laymen's terms not good breeding stock in terms of UKC APBT standard ?

His rear did come out bad in the pics he is not cow hocked at all ?
But he does move pretty well ( considering his size of course :-)

But I defiantly don't know how to spot flat shoulders need to do some more research on that !

Oh those droopy lips yeah he is.

I mean yeah he is a good pet and a very hard working dog but if he is not a good breed standard there's no point breeding him.

In terms of being a breeder I wouldn't do it professionally,
but as I am doing more research it seems like APBT are diminishing !! and specially good specimens ( mine is one I guess ) in our part of the world anyway, but depending how it goes with the puppies if we are able to find them all good homes and we don't have to keep any,
then we might be able to get a couple of GOOD dogs in terms of pedigree and structurally to breed locationally if there are some people interested in proper APBT. especially when you can consider that HERE even pitbull show organisers split red nose/black nose dogs into two different categories as they are different breed types of APBT apparently :-( and loads more.
I think it would be fair on the breed to at least have a couple of representatives for their breed from linage.
If you get my drift.
Breeding a dog because you think he is great IMO is not a good enough reason to breed a dog. That is what we call a backyard breeder and those are the people we fight against as they are the ones filling up the shelters with dogs. If you want to have a good example of the breed I encourage you to go to the shows in your area. If your dog is registered then go show him and have judges help you see what your dog is compared to the standard.

IMO a APBT should look more like this, however i'm bias because I bred him lol

ANd him, Barca is also a UKC CH


This is another dual UKC/ADBA CH of mine
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:49 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wallies_momma View Post
I personally would try EVERYTHING in my power to fix the broken leg of that horse, whether it meant vet bills destroying my credit and having to live in my car (if I'm lucky) lol. Technically yes eating cows/chicken is considered murder, but I believe God put certain animals on this earth to be a source of food and certain animals to be companions. But if you are killing the animal to stay alive and use it for good, rather than just killing an animal because it MIGHT not have a good life to me are two different things. Its like hunting, if someone has to go out and kill an animal for food and nutrition well, that's why God put those animals here. But if they are hunting an animal because they want a trophy or because they deem that animal unfit, I'm against that. I wouldn't kill an insect either unless it was hazard.
And again I know what you are saying that statisically it doesn't look good for mutts. But I guess I'd rather give them a chance then having to sign their death papers without knowing. I mean, I'm glad I was given a chance, I guess I'd like to pass that favor on.
And yes animals are below man, but I also think the greatness of a nation can be judge by how they treat their animals. Just because you have control over something or someone doesn't mean that you should abuse that privilege.
You don't understand my reasoning, because its MY reasoning lol. I don't view this world as black and white which is a lot of what your above statement is about. We have two different opinions You don't understand my reasoning and I don't understand your reasoning of lumping everything into one catagory when to me every thing is so different and unique.
I CAN see where you are coming from with the puppies however and if you think it's better for the sake of the pups to abort them then that's your choice :-) Afterall God gave us free will. But I also see the side of giving the lives a chance.
The real source of the problem are people over breeding and not spaying/nuetering their dogs. The problem are not the puppies its the people who are creating the puppies.



True but I don't think someone more bigger or powerful than myself should have the right to chose the outcome of my life. Why should I be able to chose the outcome of the puppies life?
The spay abort issue is a tough one. I hate it, but I will spay any bitch who comes into my rescue pregnant. I hate it and I feel miserable about it, but I was not the one who chose (either on purpose or through ignorance) to add to the problem facing the breed. I feel way, way worse when I hold the nine month old pup at the shelter so he won't be alone when he dies because no one cares about HIM, he is no longer a puppy and somehow now, doesn't deserve a chance at life.
I would probably feel the same way as you if I hadn't seen, first hand, the suffering puppies and dogs go through in a shelter, or seen how hard it is to place those adorable puppies in homes that will stick with them past the adorable puppy stage. I see litter after litter born by dogs who belong to people with good hearts and good intentions and no clue. They place those pups, unaltered into other, equally well meaning, homes and the cycle expands.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:59 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I strongly disagree with you, the actual problem is with the owners not the number of DOG'S
Yes, the PROBLEM is there are not enough good owners for the amount of these type of dogs ALREADY, there is no need to add more, More puppies does not equal more quality owners, it equals more dogs in need of good homes that already don't exist.
Don't be suckered by all the people who 'want one just like yours' ... there are tons out there already in every shape, color and size. The Pit Bull is a victim of it's own popularity
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:50 PM   #42 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by KMdogs View Post
You should have spayed and aborted, enough mutts in the world.. Should appreciate a good dog no matter? What has your dogs done to earn this? No matter i know how it goes.

Spay and neuter your mutts to prevent future mutts, spay and neuter the litter and hopefully none will end up in a shelter or to someone not spayed or neutered to be bred out the ass.

Dogs are good dogs according to their handlers, a true good dog earns the keep.. Suck up the pride and pay attention to truth

You cant promote what you dont know..
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Usually have at least a foster a month,its so rewarding to see a dog that always stayed in the back of the kennel turn in to a playful puppy :)
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:00 AM   #43 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
I dig the fact that you have an opinion and won't drag this on by pointing out possible contradictions or even the religious side of the spectrum, because we would be waay off topic. I do hope you eat organic and not the cloned meat at the grocery store or your argument would be lost.
You said you didn't understand my reasoning and gave me several questions to answer, so I was just being polite and answering your questions with more reasoning. So dragging it on yea, but I'm not the only one And I do get the sarcasm
I do specifically remember saying I didn't want to change your minds. I would have left it at that had you not asked more questions, like I said, I was just being polite. I feel like we've in way hijacked the thread but he is still getting his questions answered at least.
I appreciate that you seem to be at least be more on the intelligent side when it comes to debating. But, it'd also be appreciated if you kept the condensending sarcasm out of it.
As much as I'd love to eat organic my poor wallet just won't allow it. It's either eat some meat or not eat at all, after all my husbands and I weekly grocery limit is about $30, when I can I will eat organic, because I get what you are saying.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:21 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallies_momma View Post
You said you didn't understand my reasoning and gave me several questions to answer, so I was just being polite and answering your questions with more reasoning. So dragging it on yea, but I'm not the only one And I do get the sarcasm
I do specifically remember saying I didn't want to change your minds. I would have left it at that had you not asked more questions, like I said, I was just being polite. I feel like we've in way hijacked the thread but he is still getting his questions answered at least.
I appreciate that you seem to be at least be more on the intelligent side when it comes to debating. But, it'd also be appreciated if you kept the condensending sarcasm out of it.
As much as I'd love to eat organic my poor wallet just won't allow it. It's either eat some meat or not eat at all, after all my husbands and I weekly grocery limit is about $30, when I can I will eat organic, because I get what you are saying.
There was no sarcasm. You're reading too much into what I said and attempting to make something bigger out of nothing. Which is fine but if I'm going to be condescending I'm going to do it by being as much of a bitch as I can be and I was not. Believe me, I was not. Let's try not to be so sensitive over the internet.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:20 AM   #45 (permalink)
 
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How are the pups doing Greek Pits?
And yes you guys, your are hijacking the thread, its getting tiresome. Wally'smomma, I agree with you all the way. Even so, let's leave this thread open to the op.

Pls post some pics of the pups as soon as you can, I'd love to see them
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