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Old 12-27-2012, 04:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
 

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Post Any help with MUM and Puppies appreciated

Happy Christmas to all guys and girls new on here so bear with me.

We ( me and wife ) have two pit-bulls (mixes I guess as we don't have any paperwork they are both rescues ) but I am really happy with the way they came out, they have both come out really nice ( in temperament, size and shape ).

Big boy is about three now weighing in at about 55-60 kg ( that was before he got ehrlichiosis dropped down to 44 kg , but he is on antibiotics now so hopefully he will be back in no time) and baby girl is about 12 months, she fell pregnant a little while back ( between 22-25 of October ) and gave birth on the 23'rd of this month. ( I know she is too young to be bred, but those where not my intentions, me and the wife finally got the time to go on a delayed three day honeymoon, and a friend was looking after them for us, when we arrived back she told us what had happened !!

All puppies seem really healthy and stocky puppies 10 of them, at 4 days old weighting in from 350grms to 600grms , the birth went excellent no complications at all, she took care of everything didn't have to do a thing.

The problems now are these,

She is looking half the size from what she was when she fell pregnant and her appetite has gone down,( she weighed in at about 25-28kg when she was about 10mnths) she is producing more than enough milk for all the puppies. But because she is quite young I don't want her to get any problems, she is on Multivitamin and calcium tabs she is fed a mix 50/50 dry and wet food plus bones and offcuts, any tips on how to get her going again.

Now with the puppies ( never bred puppies before so please bear with me I am still learning ) they are eating fine and gaining weigh ok I guess but they cry allot and I mean allot. they cry when they are eating, when they are sleeping, whenever wherever it just feels like they are throwing tantrums all the time is that normal or should I be worried ? and any other puppy tips are more than appreciated.

Thanks and God Bless.
Filip.
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Last edited by angelbaby; 12-29-2012 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You can give the mum goats (not cow) milk to help get some weight on but I am not a breeder. I am sure someone will pop up. I hope you are planning on spaying and neutering all the pups before placing them. As well as your adult dogs so you never ever have a litter again.


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Old 12-28-2012, 08:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
 

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Ok thanx will try goats milk and see if it help's. not sure about neutering or spaying the pups before I place them doesn't that take away from their growth etc... plus it can cause health problems don't it ? I will do my best to place the puppies with people that I know or a friends friend with some sort of agreement of them spaying/neutering at a certain age !
About my dogs I am not sure yet my female is way to young only a year or so, not spaying her any time soon will wait till she is fully grown and then see, I guess it also depends on what type of dogs their puppies will come out to be.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
 

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Do research! Our dog was neutered at 6/7 months as soon as he had his shots, and our females (not pits) all were spayed young and believe me it didn't stunt their growth at all! Both are big and healthy, my lab is 13 years old and except for some hip issues she is going strong (well, general old lady grumps and slowing down, lol).


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Old 12-28-2012, 10:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I, like Ames, am not a breeder so I don't have any help there either. But my boy was a year when I got him from the shelter, and they nuetered him them. And if his growth was stunted at all by it, then I would hate to see what he woulda been like lol. He's 24" and 75lbs.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think you should spay and neuter your dogs now no matter what. Who cares what their pups turn out to be... they are mixed breed dogs,
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think you should spay and neuter your dogs now no matter what. Who cares what their pups turn out to be... they are mixed breed dogs,

Yes exactly you have mutts. Who if lucky will find a forever home but that's if they're lucky. If you want to start being responsible then spay and neuter every pup before they are rehomed.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
 

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For those that where here to help thanks again, the mum has picked up in the last couple of days eating 2 or so pounds of food a day ( looking much better )not sure if her being out and about for walks has triggered her appetite ? who knows

Puppies are growing healthy a week old sunday and all of them doubled in weight but the 2 boys that have sky rocketed weighing @ 700 and 750gr.

Now for the others,
Yes I do want to get the pupps spayed neutered but in the right way people stop throing fits and acting like children, one person on here seemed to give a streight forward answer to do research and i did, and this is what i found.

At What Age Should You Spay or Castrate Neuter Your Dog? What you Vet may not tell you

Don't Make This Mistake When Scheduling Your Dog's Neutering Procedure

Spaying or Neutering - The Risks and Benefits - Whole Dog Journal Article

I have never heard of a reputable honest breeder doing anything like that to dogs that are less than 12-16 months old.


And for my dogs YES are mixed but who cares,at least I don't go around forging paperwork like allot of people claiming the mastiff/dogo/presa-pit (or even worse) mix puppies they have are pure-bred !!
You see last Saturday I took my boy to the vet due to ehrlichiosis and there was a guy there that had an APBT paperwork, pedigree and all, when he saw my boy he asked me what he was and I told him a mix he didn't care.
You could see the disappointment in his face over his dog, where god knows how much he had paid for a well priced paperworked, pedigreed mix ( MUTT RIGHT ? ) . and could not get his hands of my boy. I see that all the time with my dogs specially with pitbull owners.

Most of my dogs have been PITS, You should do some research on the PITBULLS look at pictures and vids even on this website of OLD SCHOOL GAME BLOODLINES, some huge dogs mate I think at least a few of those dogs you would class as MUTTS !!
Back in the old days if my recollection of history is right ! there where no APBT , AM Bully etc... just BULLDOG bloodlines and that's what you Bred,

I would bet some of you almost anything that if an oldschool Bulldog( pitbull ) was placed in front of you it would be a mutt for you !!

And I mean ok 50 boxer 50 German shepherd I understand the mix, but 50 BULL and 50 BULL how is that a mix, anyway that's a discussion for another day.

Stop tripping over everything people, and learn to appreciate good looking dogs no matter whose dogs they are papers or not sometimes. stop being so proud hearted. learn/promote responsible dog ownership and breeding, Isn't that why we are all on this website for, because if people are here to just play smart then just stay away from my posts because you are barking up the wrong tree.

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Old 12-29-2012, 10:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Greek-Pits-2013 View Post
[

A

Most of my dogs have been PITS, You should do some research on the PITBULLS look at pictures and vids even on this website of OLD SCHOOL GAME BLOODLINES, some huge dogs mate I think at least a few of those dogs you would class as MUTTS !!
Back in the old days if my recollection of history is right ! there where no APBT , AM Bully etc... just BULLDOG bloodlines and that's what you Bred,

I would bet some of you almost anything that if an oldschool Bulldog( pitbull ) was placed in front of you it would be a mutt for you !!

And I mean ok 50 boxer 50 German shepherd I understand the mix, but 50 BULL and 50 BULL how is that a mix, anyway that's a discussion for another day.

Stop tripping over everything people, and learn to appreciate good looking dogs no matter whose dogs they are papers or not sometimes. stop being so proud hearted. learn/promote responsible dog ownership and breeding, Isn't that why we are all on this website for, because if people are here to just play smart then just stay away from my posts because you are barking up the wrong tree.

promote responsible ownership??? you are preaching to us when it was your unpapered mutts that had pups? I think you are barking up the wrong tree here. I see nothing wrong with what responses have been given to you.

You came on here saying you have no experience with pups or breeding and when people respond you claim you are better then alot of people with your mutts cause people have fake papers lol?? makes no sense.

Glad your bitch is doing better, goats milk is a great trick as well if needed you can mix a bit of oatmeal in there as a bulker but best bet is some high grade good quality puppy food. If you start to mix in too much then you can end up giving her the runs which defeats the purpose of upping calories.

And for the puppys crying all the time that is normal they are noisy and will only get worse and louder as they grow lol, enjoy them at 4 weeks when they are loud and momma is done cleaning up after them lol.

For the spay neuter If you don't know the owners or where the pups are going I would risk the small side effects like growth and have them fixed before they leave your home, another option would be to have a contract written up where they have to spay or neuter by a certain age { females usually 6 months , males could be the same or closer to a year} but with contracts they are only good if you are willing to follow through with them.
As well if you are responsible and take care of your productions for life they should be microchipped before they leave you with YOUR info in it. That way if they are ever picked up by a shelter or as a stray they have your info to come back too, ensures they wont end up in a shelter or atleast lowers the chances. {i dont believe they scan if owner surrenders them} but you can include that in contracts as well, any issues later on they are to return to you.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I know the different between a papered APBT and a mutt. The mutt has a background like yours, rescued without papers mixed with god knows what. Your female looks to have hound in it btw. You can't tell me the old doggers would take a random dog from the street and breed it just cause it looked close enough to a pure APBT

You don't know what your dogs are mixed with. You said your self that they are mixes so I don't understand why you are getting upset with us telling you the same thing. Who cares if its 2 "bull" breeds, the fact is they are mixed unpapered and untested.

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About my dogs I am not sure yet my female is way to young only a year or so, not spaying her any time soon will wait till she is fully grown and then see, I guess it also depends on what type of dogs their puppies will come out to be
Thats the comment that made me upset. Basically you are saying, If the puppies are pretty enough I'm gonna breed my mutts again.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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There's more to a dog than being 'good looking', and just because it is 'good looking', doesn't mean it should be bred. Yeah, your male may look good, and your female and male both may have good temperaments, but it still does not mean they should be bred. You say that you can't think of a good reputable breeder that would spay/neuter a dog a year old, but a reputable breeder also wouldn't have let a ten month old dog get pregnant. Members here DO promote responsible ownership, that's why they're hounding you about getting your mutts fixed. A LOT of the members (including me) have shelter mutts so don't get offended when your dogs are called mutts. And there are a few breeders with gamebred dogs on here too, but that is not what this topic was about. Although, I'm sure that even the breeders on this forum would tell you to do the same thing as the rest of us have. Be RESPONSIBLE, and spay/neuter so you don't end up with more mixed puppies. There's enough 'pit' mixes in shelters, don't need you adding too them.


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Old 12-29-2012, 10:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You go on a public dog forum and ask advice you are going to get what you ask for, and then some. The truth of the matter is that you were irresponsible for having two intact dogs of the opposite sex together without taking proper precautions. Yes, accidents happen for for those of us who have been at this forum for any decent span of time we see the likes of you waltz in here on a weekly basis asking advice and then getting all butt-hurt when people throw the cold-hard truth at you and it's not what you wanted to hear. The conversation progression goes something like this:

NOOB/BYB: "Oops, we had an 'accidental' litter of puppies, what do we do?

GP MEMBER: "Be more responsible" "Spay/neuter all of your animals" "Stick around and learn a thing or two"

NOOB/BYB: "Booo, you a-holes answered my question and then gave me unsolicited, yet sound, advice but I am going to lash out at you because you told me I already knew but didn't want to admit to myself. I am now going to do some actual research (which I should have done in the first place before I ever put two intact dogs together and assumed they wouldn't breed) and try to prove you wrong anyway"


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Old 12-29-2012, 11:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think the point your missing is how many dogs, mutts or otherwise, are already being killed everyday. Why add to the population. Not sure why country you live in but in the states we have HUGE problems with BSL (breed specific legislation) where they will ban any dog with a blocky head and a short coat and call it a pit bull. It's wrong. Just like when the media and society label a do based on looks. It's a disservice to every dog to allow them to be lumped into a category. If you have no clue what the lineage is for your dog, its a mutt just like my dog is. I don't love him any less because i don't know what he is and he is the best dog out there. There is NO REASON to breed mutts. There are a lot of papered dogs who should not be bred as well. Papers don't mean you should breed. There are many many factors to take into consideration before adding to the thousands of dogs already out there.

Most dogs do not take after their parents. They take after THEIR parents. The pups grandparents. So just because you like how your dogs acts doesn't meant the puppies will be the same. People who think their dog is special obviously don't know much about the bully breeds. I guarantee most feel their dog is special. Meaning although I know my dog is better than every single dog on this forum, it doesn't make it true. I bet everyone feels that way about their dog because to them, they ARE the best dog! It doesn't mean they should be bred.






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Old 12-29-2012, 11:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
 

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Guys yes there was an accident and I am pretty sure most of you have made them taking the wife on a honeymoon I don't consider irresponsible I think I owed it to her, Irresponsible I would consider leaving the dogs with a person but again we don't have the luxury in Greece/Crete of dog hotels so to say that will accept such dogs no matter how much money you give them !! , I came on here asking for some general advice about mum and puppy welfare tricks of the trade so to say that I could not get from picking up he phone and calling my VET as on matters such as these they seem to just give you a text book answer.

I get the point concerning neutering/spaying as I said before and I still don't see what the problem is with not neutering the pups straight away at this age if its not good for them, they are already being planned for microchips and passports when they reach 6-7 weeks ! and as I said in my previews post ANGELBABY I do plan on following up on the dogs, I live in Greece/ Crete an island the furthest the pups can go is 3 hours drive away !!and I am not preaching to anybody I just said that we are here to learn/promote !!

In terms of the comment BULLYGAL I didn't explain myself properly thus maybe the misunderstanding ( as I didn't think it would cause such a fuss ). The not neutering part went for the boy, the girl we actually found and was not from a shelter. we walked into a supermarket one day and she followed us in with a broken rope tied around her neck starving at about 3 months, as I said she seemed to me anyway a little bit to young to be spayed as we was planing on doing so because she does seem to have a slight hip problem with her rear leg joints leaning inwards .
The boy we got from an owner that could not care for him any more, he had changed 3 owners and we are still trying to track down the original owner or breeder and see if he has any paperwork !! on that chance he will not be neutered as he does seem to have good genetics concerning that the puppies will come out OK. hope that clears things up a little bit BULLYGAL.

Kwhitaker0604 : In terms of a dog just looking good is not good enough to breed I agree to a certain extent, unluckily here in Greece we don't have the privilege allot of the time to see physically or in pictures pedigreed ancestors even in papered dogs, you either see the parents and the paperwork or they say here are the papers the parents where from abroad that's it so to a certain eextent theres always a risk, and as for the neutering I didn't get upset about my adult dogs just the puppies as it seemed unhealthy.
Thnx
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You should have spayed and aborted, enough mutts in the world.. Should appreciate a good dog no matter? What has your dogs done to earn this? No matter i know how it goes.

Spay and neuter your mutts to prevent future mutts, spay and neuter the litter and hopefully none will end up in a shelter or to someone not spayed or neutered to be bred out the ass.

Dogs are good dogs according to their handlers, a true good dog earns the keep.. Suck up the pride and pay attention to truth

You cant promote what you dont know..
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Last edited by KMdogs; 12-29-2012 at 11:29 PM.
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