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Old 05-25-2008, 08:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
The M.F. Problem
 
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In puppies, vitamin B12 helps stimulate the appetite, leading to better weight gain and growth. It is also crucial to the production of red blood cells, and therefore may help reduce the borderline anemia seen in so many puppies.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
The M.F. Problem
 
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Here's one on B all around

Vitamin B:
Vitamin B (made up of a number of individual parts and commonly called B Complex), is fragile, water-soluble vitamins that are required for a number of critical body functions including assimilating fat and protein, promoting various biochemical reactions, building antibodies, red blood cell formation and more. Bs are crucial for neural function. Specifically, deficiency of Vitamin B6, B12 and Folic Acid are implicated in seizures. The individual parts of Vitamin B are synergistic with each other and with other vitamins and should be supplied in B Complex form in order to avoid any imbalance. Holistic veterinarians Drs. Wendell Belfield and Martin Zucker stated that "It has long been known that a deficiency of vitamin B6 or any interference with its function can cause seizures in any mammalian species, including man and dog". Deficiency of Vitamin B is widely identified as a cause for for seizures in humans and canines alike. Because these vitamins are fragile and easily destroyed by cooking, commercial diets are lacking in Vitamin B. Raw diets provide Vitamin B in unaltered form, but many raw feeders, and care givers for dogs with seizure disorders add additional Vitamin Bs in supplement form to their dogs' diets. Vitamin B is an extremely important element in an epileptic dog's diet. Vitamin B Complex supplement is crucial if you are feeding a commercial diet and is also supplemented with homemade cooked or raw diets. Remember, adequate levels of B vitamins are critical to your epi-dogs health, and because Bs are water-soluble, you cannot overdose your dog with this vitamin.
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Old 05-25-2008, 10:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Our vet recommend B12 complex for our oldest dog. He says a very small amount 2-3 times a week to help her with her energy level
When I used to rodeo, most of the contractors gave B12 to the bulls before the rodeos, it made them more energetic and buck harder. Yeah when I first started I tried it with Rebel as he was very laid back. I wanted to boost his energy levels. Honestly I really didnt see a huge difference and so I saw no need to continue. It was my own competitive edge that made me do it. I never have given them roids though. I just dont see the need to do it. I have seen dogs on the track and I KNOW they are getting injected. The pull like maniacs all frothing and drooling but I still cant do it anymore. We usually do just fine without it. There are TONS of debates to on how much is to much and does it flood the kidneys, so I said screw it, Im not doing it and we just let the dog do what the dog does.
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Old 05-26-2008, 01:10 AM   #19 (permalink)
The M.F. Problem
 
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Yeah, you're better off. Doesn't sound like that big of a deal with bull, cause of size, but dogs are another story. Like a competative sports, just stay natural, if not it's not really you winning... Same goes for dogs. What I've been reading today are articals on how beneficial B12 is to the diabetic, epileptic, and hyperthyriod type dogs. I found alot on what I already knew about supplementing with small doses for bone, blood, and cardio health too. I've yet to find out how it's directly related to muscle building though... Is it just the increase of energy linking to the ability to work longer? I see alot of muscle builders out there, especially on bully sites and it all just looks like crap, much like a tonic from back in the day!
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Old 05-26-2008, 01:22 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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I dont know that it does anything for muscle. Its basically just an energy boost.
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Old 05-26-2008, 01:28 AM   #21 (permalink)
 
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[QUOTE=reddoggy]
Quote:
Originally Posted by intensive
. Oh, A-K, by indian tenting are you refering to skin popping??? Like injecting at a 0degree thus causing the medication to make a slight bubble underneath the skin? Curiosity is getting the better of me lately.
Hey there. What I mean by "indian tenting" this skin is this: you know how you can pick the skin up between the shoulder blades and it snaps back down if they aren't dehydrated? Well, you use your fore finger and thumb, pinch some skin up (we have found that between the shoulder blades works best) , stick the needle in one side of the skin (parallel to the spine), gently pull back a little so that the needle doesn't go through both sides of the skin you have picked up. that is when you inject the immunization. this doesn't seem to create a bubble much at all. also, it seems to be less painful to the dog. most of our dogs don't even notice it once its stuck them. when you inject straight into the muscle they can become sore, much like people. that is another reason we indian tent our injections.
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Old 05-26-2008, 01:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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That makes alot of sense. I always see, on AP, the vets and techs sticking the dogs in the wrist in an upward motion, kinda always wondered how the dogs felt about that.
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Old 05-26-2008, 02:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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good explanation

Hey Redoggy and Advocate- "Indian tenting" is placing the shot under the top layer of subcutaneous skin Advocate did a great job explaining it. Sub cutaneous shots work because it is the most vascular place in the skin and therefore the medicine is absorbed quickly. A deepr shot into the muscle takes longer to deliver to the body since it is not as vascular a space but the duration of the medicinal effects are longer.
Re-dog- skin popping is most commonly used (in the medicine world) when folks get a Tuberculosis test on their arm. You still get the medicine but the absorption rate is different yet again from a deeper subcutaneous route.
Yeah I do all my own vaccines and stuff except for heartworms and rabies. I just transfer the skills I already have from nursing.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by bluefamily
Hey Redoggy and Advocate- "Indian tenting" is placing the shot under the top layer of subcutaneous skin...
Is this why they do the rabies shot into the muscle? For the absorbance factor?

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Old 05-27-2008, 04:39 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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rabies shot

Abso-tively that is the short answer
-the long answer has to do with creating a steady state of vaccine within the body for all the antibodies to mount its attack on the foreign matter, virus, bacteria, etc.

As for the B12 shots here are more specific references about B12. It is a water soluble vitamin ,meaning it will wash through the body any extra the body doesn't need.
GENERAL DESCRIPTION of Vitamin b12

Cyanocobalamin is a synthetic form of vitamin B12, which is prescribed to correct vitamin B12 deficiency. Vitamin B12 is found in organ meats, liver, beef, pork, eggs, whole milk, cheese, whole wheat bread, and fish. As vitamin B12 is not found in plant foods unless they are fortified (e.g. breakfast cereal), vegans are likely to benefit from vitamin B12 supplementation.


Vitamin B12 is required for the production of red and white blood cells and blood platelets (thrombocytes), the manufacture of substances needed for correct cell functioning, and the metabolism of nutrients necessary for cell growth. It is essential for the recycling of certain enzymes that maintain the health of blood, nerve, and other cells. It also aids the metabolism of proteins, fats, and carbohydrates. It may stimulate appetite in children. An "intrinsic factor" must exist in the stomach for this vitamin to be absorbed.
--from World health.net

General Description of Steroids:

Steroids are manufactured testosterone-like drugs that are usually taken to build muscle, enhance performance, and improve appearance. While some steroids are used medically to treat many conditions including asthma, chronic lung disease, skin conditions and allergic reactions such as poison ivy, non medical use of steroids can have serious side effects. Using steroids for cosmetic or athletic purposes is not sanctioned in the United States.
Oral steroids can be found in your system up to several weeks after use. Injected steroids can be found for several months after use.

Short-term Consequences

Use of steroids can increase muscle mass, strength, and endurance, but can also cause liver tumors, jaundice, water retention, and high blood pressure. Some users show bad judgment because the drugs make them feel invincible. Other users suffer from uncontrolled aggression and violent behavior called “Roid Rage”, severe mood swings, manic episodes and depression. They often suffer from paranoid jealousy, extreme irritability and can have delusions.

Long-Term Consequences

When the body experiences a build up of steroids in its system, conditions such as hypertension, high cholesterol, kidney disease, stunted growth, and heart damage are likely to occur. Women can experience irreversible deepening of the voice, shrinking of the breasts, menstrual irregularities, baldness and hair growth on other parts of the body, and genital swelling. Men can experience baldness, breast enlargement, sterility, shrinking of testicles and impotence. Steroids such as prednisone and other synthetic steroids, can cause a rise in blood sugar by blocking the effect of insulin. Over time, users can develop diabetes.-- from American Council on Drug education


As far as giving weekly injections go, it isn't really a big deal, just a matter of keeping what you will inject clean prior to doing so and then keeping what you will inject with clean.--I must admit, it was kind of intimidating the first time I ever gave a shot in nursing.
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Last edited by bluefamily; 05-27-2008 at 04:53 PM. Reason: add on
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:45 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddoggy
That makes alot of sense. I always see, on AP, the vets and techs sticking the dogs in the wrist in an upward motion, kinda always wondered how the dogs felt about that.
The front leg is the easiest place to hit a vein. If you see them doing this it is usually for sedative, drawing blood or starting an iv. You wouldn't give vaccines there.

Stephanie
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