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Old 12-08-2012, 03:10 PM   #106 (permalink)
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been a while since I've been here... Okay.. the hunt is the closest your going to get legally in this country.. Put your dog in a situation of survival .. Most people who hunt hogs with game bred APBTs drive in and walk them on a lead until hounds find pigs.. I do not... I run in and run out.. ... No bout with coyotes last 2hrs .. well get out there and try it... NO a good bulldog will melt right through them yotes.. HOWEVER.. let your dog out at the wrong time and you'll see what I mean when you have to save your dog. .. my dogs also have to handle moose that wander on to the acreage or try to get bully on our runs.. My newest dog just went through that this summer she got into a bull moose and stumbled away after the bull moose dropped in exhaustion covered in bruises and road rash... the last thing you do is get in that; I wan't there my neighbor told me about it.. So she was fighting for her life and out of prey drive and out of game at some point because bull moose kill dogs all the time.

Is this game testing? Not by way of any dogman... Have to remind yourselves that game was derived first from huntin and handling feral and big game. This is just being honest to your dog as all bulldogs are catchdogs. Just as all these dogs are bulldogs, bandogs, or terriers.. nothing more nothing less unless proven otherwise..

TRUE game is only testing in a controlled experimetal environment as breeding is scientific and that is the scientific way of purifying the game gene within a breed of dog.

What I do is run well bred game dogs as dogs that they are, dogs of prey.. Can every bulldog(apbt) do this? NO.. just like not all them go the distance in the [].

Unless your willing to endevor into illegal practices hunting big game and predator control is as close to testing what game your dogs do possess. Yes every ped and most all dogs have a cur or more in there somewhere.. Curs have produced game dogs and dogs that went cold have done the same.

As far as name dropping?; Im speaking on the public knowledge those men disclosed into books for EVERYONE to understand and learn. For instance Stratton mentions before anyone gets involved in bulldogs they study and understand wolves. "The Truth About the American Pit Bull Terrier".. So when people start arguing facts presented by the authorities on the breed and those who founded it and rubbed shoulders with those who founded it, I tend to throw some scarcasm in there because I wrongly assume that every one who thinks they know bulldogs has read the library of Stratton and the other books by other dogmen: Stevens, Rocca, Faron, Colby etc.. Combining with experience... BUT thats not the case..

Those who have ears should hear; those who have eyes should see.....
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:32 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Why the hell would you want to know if your dog is game or not? Dude now a day people only use drive. Gameness is when two dogs are fighting and are badly wounded but refuse to give up. What are u planning to do with your dog. Pitbull now day don't need to have gaminess in them. What for? They are no longer force to fight other dogs.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:59 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Why the hell would you want to know if your dog is game or not? Dude now a day people only use drive. Gameness is when two dogs are fighting and are badly wounded but refuse to give up. What are u planning to do with your dog. Pitbull now day don't need to have gaminess in them. What for? They are no longer force to fight other dogs.
They were never forced to fight other dogs.
The American Pit Bull Terrier was bred to fight and bred for gameness. Those two things define the breed.
You should do a little more research before jumping on a thread that you have nothing to do with.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:16 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Why the hell would you want to know if your dog is game or not? Dude now a day people only use drive. Gameness is when two dogs are fighting and are badly wounded but refuse to give up. What are u planning to do with your dog. Pitbull now day don't need to have gaminess in them. What for? They are no longer force to fight other dogs.
Let me try to explain this so you might understand.....gameness as a trait in today's society is not as desirable as the traits that come with it. e.i. The good and positive things that come with said trait. Weight pulling, bear and hog hunting or any other "work" can be a more usefull use of the trait, but there is the occasional "A" hole that wants that trait for illegal things. We're not even talking about that here. Nor are we talking about pet bulls. And Noone wants to depend on "drive" when it comes to hogs. Drive can't equal the willingness to accomplish a job, not run away and leave a hunter on his own.
Just be aware enough to know that all dogs are not couch potatoes nor are they all "pets", but they all are awesome animals. Still as loving, dependable and not deserving of being discriminated against....
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:51 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Let me try to explain this so you might understand.....gameness as a trait in today's society is not as desirable as the traits that come with it. e.i. The good and positive things that come with said trait. Weight pulling, bear and hog hunting or any other "work" can be a more usefull use of the trait, but there is the occasional "A" hole that wants that trait for illegal things. We're not even talking about that here. Nor are we talking about pet bulls. And Noone wants to depend on "drive" when it comes to hogs. Drive can't equal the willingness to accomplish a job, not run away and leave a hunter on his own.
Just be aware enough to know that all dogs are not couch potatoes nor are they all "pets", but they all are awesome animals. Still as loving, dependable and not deserving of being discriminated against....
Amen to that one boss man!!! The reason these dogs excell at things like search and rescue is because they will tenaciously brave extreme weather and practically kill themselves to save someone and get the job done. That will and spirit make them one of the best breeds on the planet IMO
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:40 PM   #111 (permalink)
 
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I do not exactly know the meaning of "game" but I will post on how my dog was tested for search and rescue work. Several of the core instincts a SAR dog must have is the desire for the hunt. A great SAR dog will have infallible prey drive and will "kill" its toys. They will also continue working through uncomfortable situations, pain, and fatigue. We don't beat a dog to see if it gives up, but it will show in their work. My girl has been slashed up from the environment plenty of times. She has worked with thorns in her paws and does not care. Her nerves are pretty solid.

Combat drive, the drive to fight back, is completely useless for a SAR dog. So if game means to attack and to bring down a large prey, then I believe my dog is not that. I have never tested her for combat, but I'd imagine that pronounced prey AND combat drive would make a "game" dog.


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Old 03-20-2013, 02:33 PM   #112 (permalink)
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game is proven.. or bred for... even when bred for its not game, unless proven game whether over seas in a country where legalized sanctioned bouts still happen. In illegal [] actions here in the USA. Also in a minor degree in extensive catch work and predator control work. People still need dogs like this, the world isnt covered in a concrete jungle where everyone believes food comes from a package. There is a major disconnect problem with people and simple truth matters of life.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:03 AM   #113 (permalink)
 

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pitbull terriers came to america from ireland.im irish born and bred the last 33 years,iv been around dogs all my life,mainly pitbulls,staffs and lurchers.i hav 2 female pits at d minute,7 month old sisters.if u want ta talk about gameness for me its not about fight,i hunt all d time,des 2 sisters are always first in and last out on rabbits, foxes,badger and jus about anything else we hunt.pits are born ta hunt,and ders no better pitbull than an irish bred pitbull.fact
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:02 PM   #114 (permalink)
 
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A dog proving game means one thing and one thing only in the APBT, if you want to use that term in reference to hunting, weight pull, fetch, whatever.. dont. Use a word that already describes those things and pertains to those things and dont try and change the meaning to a word that is very carefully defined in the breed by the creators and forefathers.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:11 PM   #115 (permalink)
 

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pitbull terriers came to america from ireland.im irish born and bred the last 33 years,iv been around dogs all my life,mainly pitbulls,staffs and lurchers.i hav 2 female pits at d minute,7 month old sisters.if u want ta talk about gameness for me its not about fight,i hunt all d time,des 2 sisters are always first in and last out on rabbits, foxes,badger and jus about anything else we hunt.pits are born ta hunt,and ders no better pitbull than an irish bred pitbull.fact


Disagree with that last , and yes I've been to your side of the pond and seen the dogs , Psycho B type dogs , Limey Kennels stuff , what have you. There are some damned good ones , but " the best"..........not a chance.

And gameness means one thing in competition , means entirely another thing for hunting purposes , and yes since I was involved in Fells Terriers for a long long time ( straight Booth dogs and Booth/Nuttall dogs) I know what that entails.

And nope I'm not slagging off the Irish dogs , you might keep in mind the dogs that got imported back over their and ended up bred into various lines , dogs such as Gr.Ch. Badger among others.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:41 PM   #116 (permalink)
 
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There are good dogs in a lot of places, but I personally think, consistently we produce the best. There is a reason we have dogs from here imported all over the world.
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:36 PM   #117 (permalink)
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A dog proving game means one thing and one thing only in the APBT, if you want to use that term in reference to hunting, weight pull, fetch, whatever.. dont. Use a word that already describes those things and pertains to those things and dont try and change the meaning to a word that is very carefully defined in the breed by the creators and forefathers.
pretty sure I cleared that up

The [] is the scientific method in a controlled environment of proving game.

and yep Ol dog when hunting game is needed on a whole other level, if the dog screws up, its on me literally.

at all other OP who might misconstrue what I posted..
Is it proven? Not by any dogmans standards. Game is needed for the dog to conquer its over sized quarry don't kid yourself. Predator Control is utilizing a dog of prey at what it does best It proves itself in the work or it don't work; dogs that don't work just wont work Play on words....
The [] is for only for proving game; unless you like to wager I guess, but in my mind its for the purpose of proving game and no other. What I do is provide folks with bulldogs worthy of predator control; up here dogs disappear and die on a daily basis while people are all so afraid to get a well bred "pit bull" and loose countless $ on other breeds to get eatin by predators or killed by moose. The American Pit Bull Terrier and the Karelian Bear Dog are the only two dogs that have been able to make the cut of a survival dog in the wilderness or a land, ranch, property dog... Completely different animals both reign supreme at working predators and large land mammals Moose, cattle, etc...
So don't get it confused I am utilizing game dogs for a purpose more than just 4 corners, to establish bulldogs back where they should be; the intelligent and prestige dog to own, especially when you live where you need a dog that will take care of you and yours. A tool, the companionship is a perk.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:27 AM   #118 (permalink)
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Gameness in hunting dogs vs gameness in the [] are utilizing the same genetic foundations for two very different functions, anyone that believes.Gameness can not be utilized in the field has.lacked there of experience in such. I am not suggesting an alternative to the ring nor does it equal to,

Vermin hunting does not bring your animal to the mental and physical ability to show what "Gameness" is within, in either avenue you must breach a point of conflicting matters for a human.. the point of which tests the uncanny strength mentality and physically to get the job done under some of the harshest elements of which majority of animals both wild and domesticated flee as survival and instict tells them to leave.

Dogo Argentino is one of the best examples of taking Gameness and utilizing the gene pool to a more diverse ability where such limitation of game can become broader and efficiently instilled.

The same genetic homeage can be found in the old war dogs and modern Bandog... Again, a new direction utilizing the same genetic disposition to enable such animals the ability to defeat odds and achieve purposes that the common animal cannot achieve.

There is no substitute for the methods of profound in the APBT, it is the only method of which deems the carried name and all that is defined by.. However, the APBT is not the only breed, if you will, to utilize and carry such gene. Though to be fair,.all of which intertwined back to the Bandog and Bulldog which within themselves were intertwined with various out comes.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:53 AM   #119 (permalink)
 
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I am not going to put it as eloquently as KM did but I have seen (heard of more so) of some terriers showing "gameness" and even "dead game" terriers in hunts with badgers etc. They can show something similar to the APBTs "gameness" in their hunts when pushed to that limit where most dogs would have that self preservation kick in, is the the same as the gameness an APBT shows in the [], no.. but it sure as shit is something when you see a dog with no bottom jaw and broken front legs still going at a badger...

And thats an extreme example as to what I think is the only exception in the definition of the term is, and I wouldnt mind someone saying their patterdale who exhibited such behavior is "game" because its hard to put a word to a dog doing something like that. Now your dog that held onto a spring pole hide for an hour is not game lol
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:40 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KMdogs View Post
Gameness in hunting dogs vs gameness in the [] are utilizing the same genetic foundations for two very different functions, anyone that believes.Gameness can not be utilized in the field has.lacked there of experience in such. I am not suggesting an alternative to the ring nor does it equal to,

Vermin hunting does not bring your animal to the mental and physical ability to show what "Gameness" is within, in either avenue you must breach a point of conflicting matters for a human.. the point of which tests the uncanny strength mentality and physically to get the job done under some of the harshest elements of which majority of animals both wild and domesticated flee as survival and instict tells them to leave.

Dogo Argentino is one of the best examples of taking Gameness and utilizing the gene pool to a more diverse ability where such limitation of game can become broader and efficiently instilled.

The same genetic homeage can be found in the old war dogs and modern Bandog... Again, a new direction utilizing the same genetic disposition to enable such animals the ability to defeat odds and achieve purposes that the common animal cannot achieve.

There is no substitute for the methods of profound in the APBT, it is the only method of which deems the carried name and all that is defined by.. However, the APBT is not the only breed, if you will, to utilize and carry such gene. Though to be fair,.all of which intertwined back to the Bandog and Bulldog which within themselves were intertwined with various out comes.
Thanks KM!!! once again filling in the blanks... where I wrongly assume this was common knowledge. Say it in CrAyOn!~
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