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Old 12-29-2009, 08:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Dog food Vs table food???

okay, my pup has been itching alot lately and shes 9 weeks old...right now i have her on Balance Small Bites Potato & Duck Formula Dog Food and some people have been telling me to give her cooked rice and chicken for a while until the itching goes away then start her on a different dog food. Is it safe to change her to cooked table food? will it be hard to get her back on her dog food? i just dont want her to go fat and lazy because i want her to get real big when she gets older. what do you guys recommend?
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
 

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Cooked Chicken and Brown Rice is excellent for dogs, in fact if you look at the history of dogs, before there was dog food......you find a lot about nutrition for dogs.

We currently feed our 5 month old puppy:

A variety of meats - chicken, lamb (she does like as much), and sometimes beef (not my favorite, because it tends to be fatty.

Grains - Brown Rice (PLAIN oatmeal if we are out of rice)

A variety of veggies - brocolli is her favorite, carrotts (rarely, because its not the best for digestion), green beans, sometimes peas (not often)

Fruit - once a week (our dog like oranges and apples)

Oils - canola, fish, peanut, or my favorite -Alaskan Salome oil

Vitamins - for doggies

READ:
Harmful Food Consumption & Toxic Plants

When we first got Akasha she was itching and stuff - I had her on potatoe and duck formula and took her off. Started cooking her food and now she is finally not itching anymore. Currently we taking away the vitamins and adding Blue Buffalo — Discover the Best Dog Food and Cat Foods with our Pet Food Comparison Tools (but she isn't crazy for it, she doesn't like lamb and they don't have the variety here) - so we are going to add
Taste of the Wild : Home

and then very slowly - introduce dry dog food again !
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
 

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Table food is bad. Properly prepared raw is good just as the right choice in kibble is good ( but not as good as raw ).

Also if you want to do a raw diet do not for the love of your dog cook it. It is making it useless by cooking out the nutrients just as most kibbles as well as enzymes. And for the love of all thats good in the world never feed cooked chicken! The bones in chicken are ok when raw but cooked is a disaster waiting to happen.

If you must cook the food make sure its boneless foods but in most cases that is what makes a dog sick on a diet such as this. You really need the enzymes and in the far run the dogs immune system as well as the digestive system over all will benefit from them being more and more present.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:05 AM   #4 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by Crash pups person View Post
Table food is bad. Properly prepared raw is good just as the right choice in kibble is good ( but not as good as raw ).

Also if you want to do a raw diet do not for the love of your dog cook it. It is making it useless by cooking out the nutrients just as most kibbles as well as enzymes. And for the love of all thats good in the world never feed cooked chicken! The bones in chicken are ok when raw but cooked is a disaster waiting to happen.

If you must cook the food make sure its boneless foods but in most cases that is what makes a dog sick on a diet such as this. You really need the enzymes and in the far run the dogs immune system as well as the digestive system over all will benefit from them being more and more present.
According to vets cooked chicken is good for dogs. However you can only use boneless chicken.....! If you cook it properly and add the proper vitamins it is prefectly acceptable to find this to the dog.

Dogs: Cooked Food Diet, natural raw diet, cooked chicken breast

http://www.blurtit.com/q3827032.html

Chicken Thighs Good For Dogs

Homemade Dog Food Recipes: Cooking for Your Canine After Pet Food Recall

See nothing wrong with cooked chicken or any kind of cooked meat. Accept for turkey and duck, which is no good for dogs period. As long as your not adding anything toxic in the meal, then its fine. Ask a vet if you are unsure !
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Old 12-30-2009, 05:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
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What do vets know about nutrition? nothing!!!! as Crash pups person said a balanced raw diet is the best you can feed a dog if you can afford it... now I'm not saying cooked table scraps have not been feed to dogs but we now know a lot more about nutrition than we did years ago like when I was coming up.
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Old 12-30-2009, 05:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Some food need to be cooked such as brown rice and oatmeal. Others parts of the diet should be raw the meat and veggies. I perfered to puree the veggies when I cooked for Chalice. I would take her squash and green beans and what ever else I used in the diet of the week( I would switch up the veggies as to cover all the vitamines) and puree it together. I would then mix this in with her rice and add the raw chicken. I only used amish raised chicken as I know this has no harmful steriods and antibiotics add to the chickens diet. An other thing I only used wingsand legs as these two parts have the erfect balance of calcium and phospherous.

BTW my vet is big on nutrition and holistic medicine. So please do not lump all vet together. There are some goods ones you just have to lk for them.
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Old 12-30-2009, 05:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Ummm, study up on what it take's to be a vet... nutrition is not part of it... what part of being a vet requires nutrition?

Not saying that some vets don't have common since but I've seen some collage educated nuts

Book learning is one thing and common since is another

Would you call science diet a good feed? How many vets calls it the best you can buy?
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Old 12-30-2009, 05:58 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Myth: VETS ARE THOROUGHLY QUALIFIED TO DISPENSE NUTRITIONAL ADVICE

This is a difficult issue that is guaranteed to offend some people, particularly those in the profession. Nevertheless, the harsh reality must be discussed. Should people fully trust the nutritional advice dispensed by their vets?

This myth is quite false. While veterinarians perform much-needed services for our pets, these services should not include a) selling pet food, and b) administering nutritional advice. Veterinarians receive very little nutritional training. The training they do receive is often advocated by or even administered by the pet food companies. Their nutritional training comes from the incorrect view that dogs are omnivores (see omnivore myth) and can safely be maintained on a grain-based diet, even when scientific research has proven that canines and felines have no evolved need for carbohydrates and fiber (see the Carbohydrates myth for further detail). That's right: dogs and cats do not need the carbohydrates that form the bulk of their processed foods. Perhaps that is why pets today are soft, doughy, and suffering from a variety of ailments linked to carbohydrate-rich, processed food (cancer, diabetes, arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, hyperactivity, seizures, etc. To read more about epilepsy and its relation to diet, please click here.).

Veterinarians are invariably linked to the commercial pet food industry. They advocate and even market commercial foods, receiving substantial revenue and kickbacks. The pet food companies make sure of this by promoting programs in the universities and by giving FREE FOOD to the up-and-coming vets to sell at their practices. For example, Colgate-Palmolive, the company that manufactures Hill's Science Diet, spends

"hundreds of thousands of dollars a year funding university research and nutrition courses at every one of the 27 US veterinary colleges. Once in practice, vets who sell Science Diet and other premium foods directly pocket profits of as much as 40%" (Parker-Pope, T. 1997. For You, My Pet. The Wall Street Journal. 3 November 1997. In Lonsdale, T. 2001. Raw Meaty Bones. p266).

The very profession is tied closely with commercial pet food companies at every turn. A tour of veterinary teaching hospitals or vet clinics shows equipment, products, and posters sponsored by and endorsing commercial foods and pharmaceutical companies. Vets are, in essence, paid for by the pet food and pharmaceutical companies, and are hardly in a position to offer sound nutritional advice. They are in direct violation of the oath and creed they swore to uphold: "First do no harm." In spite of this oath they are promoting foods detrimental to animals' health, advocating a product that will harm their patients and ensure a returning clientele and source of revenue. But remember: this is due in large part to the great lack in the education the universities have administered to them! Nothing but commercial pet food dogma is being repeated in university after university after university; these are institutions of higher learning where people are supposed to be thinking critically and evaluating things analytically, yet in reality are being told to shut off their common sense and ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence against commercial pet foods. Here is one excellent example of the ties veterinary universities and veterinarians themselves have with the pet food industry:

MSU Presents Partnership Award

"Topeka, Kan. - Michigan State University (MSU) College of Veterinary Medicine recently presented the 2004 Partnership Award to Hill's Pet Nutrition Inc.

"The award recognizes the working relationship between the MSU and Hill's.

"Hill's provides financial and educational support to nearly every veterinary college in North America, as well as to veterinary students attending those institutions. This commitment to the profession includes Hill's sponsored teaching programs, residencies and faculty programs in veterinary schools and teaching hospitals all over the world.

" 'Hill's is incredibly responsive to anything students or faculty have asked of them,' says Dr. Lonnie King, dean of the college of veterinary medicine at MSU. 'Their steadfast support, generosity and collaboration in advancing the college's mission is recognized as a vital part of our veterinary medicine program.'

"Hill's has shown its commitment to the partnership with MSU by providing support to many student groups and student activities; covering costs for students to attend the SCAVMA Symposium; providing students with the textbook Small Animal Clinical Nutrition and other various handouts; providing employment to student representatives; and by supporting the awards banquet for seniors graduating from the program."


—DVM News Magazine, August 2004 (emphasis added)

How are veterinarians supposed to be educated on proper nutritional practices when the very institutions from which they receive their instruction is in bed with the pet food companies? For an example of what occurs in vet school nutrition courses, please read the "A First Year Veterinary Student Comments" article in the Raw Meaty Bones 13 April 2004 Newsletter (scroll down about 3/4 of the way to see the article). For yet ANOTHER example of pet food company/veterinary alliances, visit the Purina.com site and check out Purina's Other Alliances.

Simply put, vets are not educated on proper nutrition; it was not until recently (past several decades) that pet owners started looking to their vets for advice on diet. Interestingly, this corresponded with the increase in commercial foods. Prior to the advent of commercial foods, people did not request nutritional advice from their veterinarians. Only after commercial foods arose did vets need nutritional training, and early vets also recommended feed fresh whole foods along with the dry 'biscuits' of the day (To read how kibble came about, click here.). Veterinarians today cite the nutritional deficiencies they see in their clinics as proof of raw diets being 'bad', but if you press them further, these deficiencies typically result from home-cooked diets or improperly formulated BARF diets, NOT prey model diets (which are the kind found in nature!). Interestingly, they may tell you to cook your dog's food, which will result in the kind of imbalances they see with "natural" diets that aren't formulated correctly. They then use this "evidence" to "prove" that home-made diets (into which they lump raw diets) are bad for your pets. Or they may tell you that 'science' has shown that raw diets are not good for our pets. Ask them: "what 'science'?" Press them for the answer, and what they tell you will most likely be nothing but pet food propaganda about salmonella poisoning in pets (undocumented in HEALTHY animals) or the 'reputable research' performed by pet food companies. Almost all of this research is undocumented, 'anecdotal' evidence or evidence that does not pertain to proper raw diets. For example, they will cite that all-meat diets create severe calcium deficiencies. This is true. But a proper raw diet is not all meat. A proper raw diet is a wonderful blend of meat, bone, and organs from a variety of sources.

Most veterinarians are highly qualified individuals; however, their qualifications are for surgery, conventional disease diagnosis and treatment, and conventional drug prescription, NOT for nutrition (although holistic vets are more aware of the importance of fresh raw foods in keeping animals healthy, and are also amenable to alternative therapies). Additionally, veterinarians need to respect their clients' wishes to feed a natural diet rather than berate them with pet-food company propaganda (also known as 'nutritional advice') each time they come in. Veterinarians and pet owners alike need to remember that veterinarians are consultants. A pet owner consults a vet when their pet has a specific problem or need. The pet owner pays the veterinarian's wages; the veterinarian works for them. A client is perfectly within their rights to deny treatments or request that things be done differently. Additionally, a client is perfectly within their rights to feed their dog a diet different than that which the veterinarian recommends, and a client is within their rights to ignore a vet's 'nutritional advice.' For a veterinarian to bully a client toward feeding a certain way or to blame the diet for every possible illness is unacceptable and demonstrates a lack of professionalism.

Even more unacceptable (downright heinous!) is for a veterinarian to refuse their services to a client because the client does not feed the diet the vet recommends, as is the case with a California Bay Area emergency clinic. During the summer of 2005, a raw-feeder brought her dog to the emergency clinic with a possible case of bloat (bloat is not only possibly genetic and food-related, but possibly vaccine-related as well.), and the attending veterinarian began to berate her for her choice to feed a raw diet instead of attending to her dog's possibly life-threatening situation. The raw-feeder requested a different veterinarian so as to avoid confrontation and receive an unbiased medical report; this second veterinarian proceeded to check her dog over thoroughly (as the first vet should have done), and came to his diagnosis (which was not bloat, but simple enteritis with no particular reference to diet issues.). Several days afterward, the raw-feeder received a letter from the clinic stating that she was no longer welcome as a client because she was reluctant to follow the advice of the first veterinarian, presumably regarding the raw diet. For an EMERGENCY clinic to act this way is tantamount to animal cruelty; their decision is punishing the dog (who is innocent and has no voice in all of this) for a well-informed choice his owner made to feed fresh foods. This is similar to refusing to treat a person for cancer or a heart attack because they ate processed foods instead of fresh whole foods like the doctors recommended (notice the irony in that what is recommended for humans—fresh whole foods—is the exact opposite of what is recommended for our pets.)! It is an unacceptable act of animal cruelty and an outright denial of the creed veterinarians must uphold.

Pet owners, you have every right to demand that your vet honor your decision to feed a raw diet. Make it known that your pet's diet is not up for negotiation unless you so choose. Unwarranted nutritional advice is not welcome, nor should it be necessary since you are paying for your vet's MEDICAL opinion, not nutritional opinion. Be aware that vets have been admonished to sufficiently inform their clients of the benefits and risks of various dietary practices. But considering how feeding fresh, raw foods to pets is NOT taught in veterinary school, their knowledge in this area will be very minimal, and will most likely be restricted to the negative aspects of raw diets (most of which are half-truths and myths, and are dealt with in these myth pages). After all, whenever studies on raw foods are published in publications like the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, the negative aspects (such as bacteria) are all that are researched (and not very well, I might add). The studies start out with a distinct bias that is seen in the way they are structured in addition to the topic they are studying, and rarely include good science that should involve scrupulous methods that can be repeated, large sample sizes, and a sound hypothesis.

Veterinarians and vet technicians: please respect the rights of your clients. Respect their wishes to feed a raw diet, and they will respect your skills as a trained professional. Be open to their choice to feed fresh whole foods to their pets instead of letting prejudices get in the way. When it comes to the welfare of their pet, you should be one of their strongest allies instead of one of their harshest enemies, particularly since you possess valuable knowledge and skills in emergency situations.

Myths About Raw: Is my vet really qualified to be giving nutritional advice?
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaylexi248 View Post
okay, my pup has been itching alot lately and shes 9 weeks old...right now i have her on Balance Small Bites Potato & Duck Formula Dog Food and some people have been telling me to give her cooked rice and chicken for a while until the itching goes away then start her on a different dog food. Is it safe to change her to cooked table food? will it be hard to get her back on her dog food? i just dont want her to go fat and lazy because i want her to get real big when she gets older. what do you guys recommend?
What do you mean by "I want her to get real big when she gets older". APBTs are not large dogs by design. They are a medium sized dog ranging from from 40-70 lbs by standard. If you were looking for a large dog you've chosen the wrong breed. Feeding a dog more might make them fat but you can't change a medium sized dog to a large breed by making them fat...
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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some great info on here. was a good read
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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From everything I've read, cooked meat is extremely lacking in nutrition for dogs. Many vets, and people generally knowledgeable about dogs will recommend boiled chicken and rice for a sick dog. This often leads to the misconception that boiled chicken is a good protein source, however, the chicken is mostly to add flavor to the rice and encourage a sick dog to eat the rice, which fills it up, settles the stomach and provides valuable carbs. As dogs' digestive processes are very different from humans, food passes through much more quickly, and the dog doesnt break the cooked meat down thoroughly enough to get the same amount of protein as a human would. If you want to take a vet's advice on nutrition, please seek out a holistic vet, or a vet who has specifically studied canine nutrition. While most vets can make some common sense generalizations about canine nutrition, most are lacking in this area. Please consider that vets are trained to study such a broad spectrum of species and ailments (which humans would see specialists for) that often certain subjects are breezed through. I have known people to lose bulldogs (EBs) during routine surgery because many vets have no idea how to properly anestetize (sp?) brachycephalic dogs. Ask your vet if he has specifically studied nutrition, another sure fire way to determine if his opinion is valid is to ask him what food he recommends. If he suggests science diet, look for a new vet for nutritional advice. Search for some of our old threads on feeding raw, there are some great raw diets recommended.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:59 AM   #12 (permalink)
 

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What do vets know about nutrition? nothing!!!! as Crash pups person said a balanced raw diet is the best you can feed a dog if you can afford it... now I'm not saying cooked table scraps have not been feed to dogs but we now know a lot more about nutrition than we did years ago like when I was coming up.
How is cooked chicken table scraps? Yes its true that the good stuff is cooked out of the chicken....but what is so wrong about it? Yeah raw is better for dogs (that's if they eat it, ours won't), but if you add the proper nutrients to the food it makes it better right? I'm not talking about table scraps here, I'm talking about a cooked balanced meal ! I'm not talking about a meal that we cooked for ourselves, packed with fat and calories. With a little BBQ sauce and some onions, NO.....Obviously I'm mis-informed here and so are a lot of other people who feed there dogs chicken and rice.....
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by FloorCandy View Post
From everything I've read, cooked meat is extremely lacking in nutrition for dogs. Many vets, and people generally knowledgeable about dogs will recommend boiled chicken and rice for a sick dog. This often leads to the misconception that boiled chicken is a good protein source, however, the chicken is mostly to add flavor to the rice and encourage a sick dog to eat the rice, which fills it up, settles the stomach and provides valuable carbs. As dogs' digestive processes are very different from humans, food passes through much more quickly, and the dog doesnt break the cooked meat down thoroughly enough to get the same amount of protein as a human would. If you want to take a vet's advice on nutrition, please seek out a holistic vet, or a vet who has specifically studied canine nutrition. While most vets can make some common sense generalizations about canine nutrition, most are lacking in this area. Please consider that vets are trained to study such a broad spectrum of species and ailments (which humans would see specialists for) that often certain subjects are breezed through. I have known people to lose bulldogs (EBs) during routine surgery because many vets have no idea how to properly anestetize (sp?) brachycephalic dogs. Ask your vet if he has specifically studied nutrition, another sure fire way to determine if his opinion is valid is to ask him what food he recommends. If he suggests science diet, look for a new vet for nutritional advice. Search for some of our old threads on feeding raw, there are some great raw diets recommended.
Okay I understand what your saying here, and I understand now why folks are saying its bad. I didn't get this information directly from a vet. It was something we came upon on our own, because our dog refuses raw meat. But I don't understand why it can't be good if you are properly preparing it? With the proper vitamins, and other things the dog needs to grow.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Okay I understand what your saying here, and I understand now why folks are saying its bad. I didn't get this information directly from a vet. It was something we came upon on our own, because our dog refuses raw meat. But I don't understand why it can't be good if you are properly preparing it? With the proper vitamins, and other things the dog needs to grow.
You can prepare a balanced meal for your dog by adding other supplements, like eggs, eggshells, ACV, veggies, bones, grains, etc, but the raw meat provides vital protein, if your dog will not eat raw chicken, you are better off trying other raw meats, like beef, venison, turkey, etc, cooking the meat renders it close to being a filler. Many dogs will eat raw meaty bones, which is a good option for a dog who wont eat raw chicken. My EB will not eat a raw diet, so I give my dogs a good quality kibble. I am not telling you that you CANT feed your dog cooked boneless chicken, but a good quality kibble will provide a more complete diet, and a raw diet will provide the best.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:25 AM   #15 (permalink)
 

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Yes I understand all that, and we feel that our dog has a pretty good meal. She won't anything thats raw except for stripped chicken bones. However you can add a supplement to the meal in replacement of raw meat bones.

Bone Meal for Dogs
Not to mention supplements (or vitamins) are easy to find as well...it's all a matter on how much you intend to spend.
Dog Health Supplements, Dog Nutrition Supplements, Animal Naturals, Wholistic Pet Organics

kibble is good yes, and may be better....however what happens when something goes wrong with the kibble? Like they have to recall it, and some people get tired of risking it. Either way I still haven't seen any evidance showing that cooked chicken is bad for dogs. As crash pups was stating....

Well I guess people can choose what they feed their dogs, and we know our dog is healthy. As long as the dog is healthy and happy.....Does it really matter?
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