Rock-E

Hi everyone!

I have a 6 month old male neutered pit and i have been trying to socialize him and its so incredibly hard!!

He loves people, he just gets extremely excited and he always jumps up on everyone at first meeting, and he is about 50 pound now and really tall when on his hind legs. when he jumps I just tell him 'down' and push him off he usually stops after doing it once or twice. SO there isnt a problem with people, he loves every human. but with dogs its a different story...

I have taken him to be groomed at petsmart about 3 times so far and everytime he barks like crazy! Even when i took him to be neutered he barked insanely the entire time he was there ( they told me). Also at petsmart hes barking the entire time he's there! I feel so bad for him, he doesnt stop at all, and i want him to get used to it but i feel sad that hes barking the entire time hes there..i dont understand what to do? ( the vet nurse said he stopped barking when she would go open his cage and pet him, so im guessing he just felt scared at the vet)

anyway, im sorry im digressing, but the real issue at hand is the socialization. I have taught him some commands such as sit, stay, and come ( but they arent foolproof yet, although i continue to practice and practice to hopefully achieve perfection one day). I walk him daily, and he sees dogs a lot, although he never has gotten close to one. Whenever he sees one his hair goes up on his back and he starts barking--somestimes even a whimper-scared-bark, which to me makes no sense at all!! since it seems like hes scared but then again seems like he wants to attack them bc sometime he runs towards them and sometimes he runs away. ( i swear ppl need to socialize their dogs more bc they always end up barking at my dog and then he starts)

so i am confused.. twice now while i was walking him on a leash there have been dogs that were not leashed come up and scare the heck out of my dog! one of my neighbors, whom i now know has a hatred for my pitty ( he always used to joke about 'hows ur killer dog ?' which were kind of humorous before this incident are just now incredibly rude. Basically he has an adult golden retriever and while i was just returning from a walk ( had to pass by his house but on the opposite side of the street bc his dog was not leashed), he asks if he wants my dog to meet his, and i politely say no bc my dog has not been socialized yet and doesnt seem to like other dogs yet, he walks on over anyways and his dog alongside ( no leash) and all of a sudden in a blink of an eye his dog runs up to mine and start barking, growling, etc, and i hear the same from my dog--it was incredibly scary, the stupid guy didnt even pull his dog off and some other neighbor had to run over and pull him off, thank god my dog had no serious bites but alot of scratches and he was SO SCARED. the guy even had the nerve to say 'hes a pitbull, what do you expect? !!!! i was soo livid! my dog was merely a 3 month old puppy and his an adult!! i havent talked to them since...

anyhow i only told that story in detail because im afraid it has mentally scarred my dog? is that a reason why he doesnt seem to like dogs now? I introduced him to my cousins dog ( who is significantly smaller- about 18 pounds- but he is a very nice dog a jack russel and bichon frise mix). My dog kept barking like crazy and trying to lunge at him and he did nothing but want to see my dog- it was quite funny an cute that he was so nice tho. ( we introduced them on non territorial ground at the park) I walked him away a few times so he would know that he needs to be good in order to meet this dog. tthen every time he would bark and bark weird-whimper like and his hair would go up. we did this a few times that evening and at about the 5th try he actually didnt bark but he was still hyper ( and when i say hyper i mean he is pulling so hard he is choking himself and he doesnt care! he has a training -gentle choke collar, and my brothers hands were very red after that experience) i had treats for him but when he was face to face with the dog he didnt care about the food ( which is crazy bc he is food driven!!) he almost threw up a few times bc he was pulling so hard) We kept them nose to nose and he smelled him and did not bite him thank GOd!! although the last time when he didnt bark he got on his hind legs ( from pulling so hard) and actually what looked like to me gave the other dog a hug?? like he wrapped his two arms around his chest? this was weird and looked like it was going to go bad so i pulled him off of him and away. and havent had them meet since...any ideas on how i should be doing this and how often they should meet?

someone sugggested me to use a muzzle..but im unsure how he will react to a muzzle and im unsure if it will aggravate him more? but i dont like risking the fact that he could bite the other dog... i had a confident attitude when this meeting happened bc i have heard they can pick up on ur vibe....please any ideas or suggestion would be helpful!!

also i looked into a petsmart training class..but i think my dog is too hyper to sit with 10 other hyper dogs!! i dont think it would be good! and i found another trainer who does it on her ranch( she had only 3 other dogs in her puppy class, and im afraid hes too small for an adult class), but i went to observe once and she seemed like she didnt like my dog too much. she had no experience with pitty's other than one other pitty that was one month younger than mine that she had just started to work with...my dog jumped on her and she looked absolutely disgusted.. =(

i am trying to find a trainer in my area and in my budget..but it seems like petsmart is the only option i really have...but i have heard so many bad things about them as well..

thank you all so much for reading my first yet lengthy post!

Attached Images

  

MSK

First of all dog aggression is common in this breed and in some cases no matter how much you socialize them they will never be able to be trusted with another dog. The high pitch whimpering bark more then likely isn't fear thats excitement meaning he was possibly ready to attack if you dog is DA like most in this breed never trust a wagging tail b/c with his breed that could very possibly mean I'm gonna get that dog. Now the experience with the Labrador yes that could be a very traumatic experience to an unsuspecting pup and also could cause him to be semi fearful but more then likely it just trigger plain out hatred for other dogs. The whole thing about the woman coming and petting the dog to get him to stop barking NOT A GOOD THING this is encouraging that behavior never pet/praise or "comfort" your dog when its fearful, nervous, or aggressive that again only encourages bad behavior they are not humans they are animals and when dealing with animals you have to use a totally different state of mind. A muzzle honestly I believe that will make the experience more stressful on the dog making it overall a bad experience. You need to take time out with a dog trainer who knows what their doing preferable a behaviorist. What I would suggest until then if you want to try and socialize use dogs that are around the same size as your dog with a good disposition and get a friend to help you make sure both dogs are on leashes don't let them run loose together until you dog is calm like the other dog you don't want a pup or dog to introduce to your pup if it is excited b/c that can also trigger your dog to revert back to his original state of mind. Let them get used to just having the other dog int he room first them slowly and eventually get them to smell each other and so on and so forth its a slow process. Another thing sounds like hes having a touch of separation anxiety to me could cause his episodes to escalate when your out of sight. Yes dogs can feel what you are feeling which also hurts you if your trying to train in the long run. If you find yourself getting anxious, fearful, nervous, etc you need to just turn around take him out of the room and you take a break to chill out trust yourself and your judgment and the pup will trust your judgment and give you more respect. Another thing I want to add before I get my butt in the bed is that after you start your training it has to be an everyday thing even if you don't have class do it at home b/c if you are not continuous the pup will revert back eventually.

Hope this helps some I can't guaranteed how well this is worded being i'm tired and don't feel like revising at this hour i will go back over it tomorrow when i get up and am refreshed lol.

__________________

bahamutt99

Maybe the dogs bark at yours because they can tell he's not really stable. (I don't mean like he's unhinged, but as Cesar would say, not a balanced calm-submissive animal.) You seem to really be hung up on feeling sorry for this dog, and that's not the way to move forward. The best thing at this point is to show supreme confidence and quit worrying so much. Then you need to quit focusing on getting him to "like" other dogs because, as was pointed out, this is a Pit Bull. (Or AmBully, but still...) Bred for 100+ years to do combat with other dogs, so you have to expect at least some degree of dog-aggression. Your dog may not be a standard gamebred dog, but he's probably still got a glimmer of that drive.

There is no sense in using a muzzle at this point, as that has the potential of making him more defensive. Go back to the basics. First, before you take him out for socialization, get him tired. Put him on a treadmill or play ball with him for 20 minutes. The excess energy when you're trying to work with him is doing him no favors. Then get him out in public, but don't force him into any dog-on-dog encounters. Don't make a big deal about what's going on around you. Bring a pouch of treats and set yourself up in a park or somewhere that there are distractions around, but not right in his face. Then work on your obedience training while letting him get used to what is going on around him.

If another dog comes up to you, reel your dog in and put yourself between your dog and the other. Be firm and tell the other dog to go away. It sounds like he might be going through a bit of a fear stage, and he needs to know that he isn't always "on guard," and that you have the situation in hand.

And yes, by all means, save up the money and go to a good training class. Any instructor worth their salt will know that the dogs aren't going to be perfect to start off with. But it will do your dog a world of good to be in a controlled environment where he can be exposed to other dogs, but not be expected to actually socialize with them. He needs time to simply be around them and get his confidence up before you take the next step.

Good luck! Keep at it. Be confident. Quit worrying so much.

ETA: As for the jumping up, that takes time to break. Start teaching your dog to sit before greeting, and don't let anyone pet him while he's not sitting. He will eventually start sitting on his own when he sees another person. That's the beauty of associative learning.

__________________

MY MIKADO

Okay I rad tough the whole thing and all that Amanda wrote. She had some really good advice. What I would like to know is there some place where dog people take their dogs where you live? If there is a would take my pup there and sit off the side lines and work at keeping you boy clam use treats, soothing voice, but make him sit calmly while he watches other dogs. You can do this at a play ground too when ou dog gets to excited put him a sit and praise him even if he only is quite a second treat praise and try to keep him calm for 3second the next time. You can also work on the watch me training. Ilove this method you work at getting your dog so foscused on you and world war 3 could be going on but our dog is loooking to for guidence.

__________________

MY MIKADO

Okay I read though the whole thing and all that Amanda wrote. She had some really good advice. What I would like to know is there some place where dog people take their dogs where you live? If there is a would take my pup there and sit off the side lines and work at keeping your boy clam use treats, soothing voice, but make him sit calmly while he watches other dogs. You can do this at a play ground too when our dog gets to excited put him a sit and praise him even if he only is quite a second treat praise and try to keep him calm for 3second the next time. You can also work on the watch me training. I love this method you work at getting your dog so foscused on you and world war 3 could be going on but our dog is loooking to for guidence. Good luck

__________________

Rock-E

Thank you so much for the prompt replies!

Amanda,
I really appreciate you taking time out to respond even when you were tired =)
In response to ur reply, I knew upon getting my dog that he would probably be more aggressive than other breeds, but now on the forum I see that there are a lot of pits that actually are able to be with other dogs and be calm, so I just hope my dog can become like that one day..I understand everyones different and some might not ever want to, but I guess i wont really know until trying a whole bunch more and failing? Do you think there are any sure fire ways of knowing that my dog will always be dog aggressive? Also, I don't kno of any other dogs with good dispositions that are his size-the only one i know is the small one whom i described earlier. I actually tried having them meet again today and it seemed like it was worst than the first time. My dog kept trying to get him and was barking such shrill loud barks-and getting insanely hyper, he even scraped my skin on my wrist due to his pulling on the leash.. He just loses control upon getting close to dogs...doesnt listen nor care about food and he doesnt even care about me it seems!

Lindsay,

Thank you for ur reply! I just wanted to reply to u and say that my dog doesnt care about food when he is up close to another dog. From far away he is fine, and doesnt really seem to care about them, only when they approach him he gets crazy. When they are far away he just watches them, might let out an occasional bark, but nothing bad at all.

Mikado,

Thank you also for your reply. I will definitely try the 'watch me' command...any advice how to go about this one? just say watch me and then when he looks treat, im assuming? I will definitely try it in areas where there are distractions.

Its hard for me to be so carefree when we see other dogs because my mind is going a million miles per hour trying to see if the dog that is approaching is leashed and if its displaying aggression signs, and if its soemthing i need to worry about.( there are too many dogs not leashed which scares me because if they run up to us, its hard to hold my dog back, he is 50+ pounds now). I am constantly on the lookout for dogs while walking him, if i see one approaching i will head to the opposite side of the street..is this normal? do any of you do this? I do feel paranoid in a sense..but only because I dont want my dog to get in a fight with another dog, nor have another dog attack mine.. that just wouldnt be fun at all.

any further suggestions or advise is GREATLY appreciated!!

=)

Attached Images

 

pipsqweek

You have a blue pit. these guys were bred more for show than the other pits. They have less of a fighting background, although the still carry the lineage.
Any bulldog type like the pit bull is gonna be willing to challenge back if it is challenged. So if they aren't challenged in life with good physical/psychological activity then it makes sense for them to resort to this to make up for that empty part of their life.
Also, they will be more willing to challenge in order to defend themselves if they feel threatened. A softer breed is more likely to run away from what makes them afraid.
I think you might have a little bit of both in your situation. You should have had some friends lined up with dogs to socialize him before you got him. Just like we expose children to other children early in life. Good thing is he is still young and has a great future because he is still being inquizitive about everything and you are really willing to make the effort to provide him with a proper life.
Take your time with it and make the most out of every situation you get. anxiousness, fear, and frustration are only gonna confuse him. He needs you to take the time to find a good calm dog for him to meet, stay there until he stops the barking/pulling/growling behavior until he is calm, and then allow the dogs to meet. Another good thing would be to get a friend with a good dog and walk your dogs together for a while and then let them meet. that way they sort of bond a little and feel comfortable before they meet. Basically...he needs better experiences with dogs. Not a charging golden retriever!!!
My pits stay with my chihuaha and a rabbit walking around in my room while I go shopping and they are all in one peice when I get back home, so it is absolutlely possible for your dog to be social. Find ways to provide the proper environment (good dogs, good professionals, and patience in the air).
Best of Luck

SadieBlues

Ok I am going to chime in and say that regardless of how well socialized your apbt is you should NEVER and I stress that word NEVER leave your apbt home alone for any amount of time unattended with any animal rabbit cat another apbt any breed of dog or animal this is foolish and your just asking for an accident. I don't care what color dog he is what lines he/she is from. This should never ever be done. The golden rule in owning a bully breed is never turst your bully NOT to fight .... This must be enforced and should be followed. If your not home to supervise please please please crate your dog/dogs or chain them properly. My older male went through his entire puppy hood without showing signs of da and one day he decided he wanted to fight and guess what he did and all I can say is thank god I was there to stop the fight he would have killed this dog and after 1,000 in fines and additional medical expenses this was enough for me to seek out advice and pick up a book and really read about this breed. I was not prepared for this event and knowing what I know now I take it very seriously and am very repsonsible when it comes to the well being of all my animals and other people's animals. I always crate when not home this should be done by any responsible dog owner. Or if your dog's are outside they need to be chained properly.

I am not trying to bash the above poster I just have a big problem with someone who leaves their apbt/bully out with other animals when they are not home to supervise. I have broken up some pretty bloody fights that could have been prevented and I feel like I needed to say something regardless of weather you hear the message or not. Again I am not trying to tell you how you should rasie your dogs I just want to share my exp and hope you will take heed to them before anything bad happens

__________________
I survived because I was tougher than anybody else. ~ Bette Davis~

BedlamBully

Uhm the dog being blue has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Its just a color, it doesn't determine temperment or if he's for show or ANYTHING. Also APBT's don't walk around challenging other dogs because they are bored, DA is just part of having this breed APBT or AmBully, they both have the capability of having dog aggression issues. Its not generally a behavior that can be 'unlearned' or that you can teach them NOT to do. If he doesn't like other dogs its something you will have to learn to live with.

Also having friends "Lined up with social dogs" is not a requirement to owning the breed. Wether their dogs are social or not, if you dog does NOT like other dogs its not GOING to like other dogs no matter what you do. There may be certain dogs he will get along with for some unknown reason but he should still always always be watched with other creatures in the room.

I would never leave my pits unsupervised with a rabbit or my chihuahua (yes I have one) when I am not around no matter HOW long they have been together, not a risk I am willing to take.

__________________
Silly Boy! Pits are for Chicks.

legacy413

I personally think that having the dogs meet "face to face" wasn't the best way to meet. One of the dogs should be facing the opposite direction while the the other sniffs them out. Just my opinion.

pipsqweek

Bedlam Im sorry, but I truly disagree with you. My 13 year pitbull who just died last year was a fighting pitbull who was about to be put down by his adopted owner's because of his dog aggression when a friend of mine (a dog behaviorist) got them to adopt him out to me. after alot of hard work for 2 years he bacame my loyal dog walking partner. everyone loved him and he got along great with all my client's dogs and never acted aggressive to other dogs on leash. Although the dog aggression is in their genes does not mean that it has to be expressed. we can redirect that behavior onto something productive (like a sport) and with proper socialization and time it is possible.

Having friends with dogs available for socialization should not only be a requirement for this breed, but every dog. We can't just expect them to know what to do in a situation unless we expose them to it properly. As responsible owners we should expose them to every situation in our daily lives, so that we have safe dogs for society. It has nothing to do with a dog being a pitbull, although with their current reputation, pitbull owners should be the most enthusiastic about preparing their dogs to be great in all areas of their lives to prove the haters wrong.

My animals all get along with eachother because they work together. The chihuaha, the rabbit, and the pits. We are in a sense "a pack" and we work hard too. When you leave animals unattended they should always be in a resting mode, so that they don't go into finding out who the next in charge is. This is the nature of animals. With out the long walks and psychological work they become frustrated because they can't express themselves the way they were meant to (they are dogs you know). this frustration leads them into finding a way to release it, so as animals it is only natural to turn to hunt as a source of work. This could leave both the rabbit and the chihuaha at risk. Most people don't live like this because they see their dogs more as pets or companions (plus they don't have the time). I don't live with pets... I live with animals. We all coexists peacefully because we live as animals should, not as a human-pet relationship. I don't expect others to do this because they obviously don't have the time to work their dogs as much as I do, and Im sure they have a beautiful relationship with theirs dogs and the dogs feel the same way, but in order to do what I do with the rabbit and the chihuaha... this is the way to do it. knowledge and timing are improtant for these situation. And it shows that it is possible. Pittbulls aren't just dog aggressive

pipsqweek

By the way I don't take anything anyone said about what I wrote personally. I fully agree with what SadiesBlue said if it was a regular family pit bull, but my guys live differently and I don't leave them alone for more than 2 hours with the rabbit and chihuaha. after 1-2 hours rest they are ready for more work. thats when i come in and provide. fighting is never an option because they use that energy elsewhere, plus they were exposed to this lifestyle at an early age and this is how they have lived since then. If u don't give them something to do, they'll find something. and that something is usually not considered ok in the human world.
thank you SadiesBlue. I truly do understand what you feel.

SadieBlues

All I can say is good luck you have been for warned ... Your taking a risk and putting your animals in danger. There are people on here right now my friend that work there apbt's on a regular basis weight pull agaility every day who's dogs have been given proper socialization from puppyhood. Those things surely do matter in any animal but the fact of the matter is we are not talking about just any other animal here we are talking about american pitbull terrier's. These dog's were bred to fight they have a high prey drive it's naturally bred into them and can surface at any given point and time regardless of how well he or she was raised trained socialized ect. Proper exersice and nutrition play a big role but don't think that because you do all of these things daily that this in some way will go against the the apbt's nature you ask anyone in here who would leave their apbt out with other animals unattended and I bet you not too many people would agree this was a very smart thing to do. But anyway Best of Luck to you.

__________________
I survived because I was tougher than anybody else. ~ Bette Davis~

reddoggy

I totally agree with Bedlam, Pipsweek...
If ya weren't prepared for some fighing then you shouldn't have gotten involved with the breed. No pitbull should ever be left alone with another animal! EVER! I think you've been watching too much Dog Whisperer, and I really dont need to say much more cause it's already been posted by people who've done their homework and know what they're talking about.

__________________
CLICK THIS LINK!!!
http://gameandbullybred.getphpbb.com/

roleary

My six month pup has similar problems regarding excitement around people, seriously he actually will start vibrating if I dont let him maul them with licking, it actually very annoying. As far as dogs go, he isnt outright aggressive but just VERY...uh... imposing I guess. Meaning that he wont bark, but he will certainly wrestle and try to be the dominant figure with any dog he encounters, he has always been that way, remarkably when he was just four or five months I just let him go at it and wrestle (play) with my brothers 4 year old pit in hopes of him maybe realizing that he isnt the dominant figure over every dog... well it went fine until my brothers dog (ruger) got tired of it and made it obvious, but I thought for sure he would relax a bit, low and behold he just continues exactly as before, ten minutes later he was back to nipping and pushing ol rugers buttons again.
Its just the breed, gotta love it though and just take the necessary precautions that come along with the dog, I know this doesnt help and may sound pessimistic, but I thought I would share.