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Is dog aggression cureable? Or do we need to put him down?

7K views 45 replies 25 participants last post by  mi16reisen 
#1 ·
First off, I am very uneducated about pitts as a breed. I grew up around dogs my whole life, my parents were breeders, but I have mostly been around labs, sheepdogs, etc.

My now husband had two pitts already when I moved in. He never gave them the attention and energy they needed and deserved and I nagged him incessantly about that. He is not a bad person, was just uneducated about dogs and their needs and he is a workaholic. He is rarely home. I am not strong enough to handle either dog on its own to walk and they have never been trained to behave on a leash or in public.

Both are males, one year apart in age, both neutered and crate trained. Both sweet dogs, but don't know their own strength kind of energy and we must keep them separated from any guests we have over.

Last summer the boys got into two fights - bad enough that there were injuries involved and I was concerned but they weren't severely hurt. Looking back these were warning signs.

In November, my husband got me the puppy that I've been wanting for years, an English Bulldog female. She is a great dog and the three seemed to get along famously.

In April, the two boys had another fight but this one was beyond violent. I've never seen anything like it before. They were completely tearing each other apart, blood everywhere, and were locked onto each other for 30 minutes. I tried everything I could think of to break them apart without getting too close but failed. They eventually stopped on their own. Both were severely injured (in my opinion, a $600 vet bill and a couple weeks recovery for each of them). At this point I thought we needed to surrender the dogs. I contacted a pitt rescue who sent a trainer to us.

The trainer said that if we were comfortable we could try keeping the dogs. ALthough my female hadn't been in heat ever yet, he thought that was coming and maybe caused the fight. Both boys are neutered but he said it could still have been an issue. He also said they may scuffle in the future but we don't necessarily need to get rid of them because it will never be bad again.

A few months later, our friend brought his two dogs over and it was instantly WWIII. It was a four dog instant fight and luckily the dogs were quickly separated and sustained minor injuries. Our oldest and his oldest were definitely the aggressors in that situation. I had my puppy safe inside during that.

For the past couple of months our oldest has been acting out a lot. He suddenly started jumping up on everybody, barking incessantly, not minding, etc. Then, last week, the two boys got into another awful fight. While the trainer was right - it wasn't as severe as the last time, it was NEARLY. They were both hurt, and took a few days to recover.

My heart is breaking for these boys because they just can't seem to get along. Again, my puppy was inside and they were outside when the fight broke out. A few days later, our oldest went after her while I was standing between them. It terrified me. I smacked him on the head and he backed down but I am so afraid of him now - I have no idea what he is capable of.

I can see all of the mistakes that we have made but my question is if they are reparable? It is not practical for us to keep all three dogs separated all of the time. My husband and I work two jobs each. Its a bad situation. We have cried and kicked ourselves for all of this but we need to know how to move on. Can this type of aggression in the older dog be corrected? I have been asking and reading and everything I"m hearing is that we need to put him down? We have been halfheartedly searching for homes for both of them (my husband can't bear to keep one and not the other) but it seems hard to find a home for the oldest when I feel he can't legitimately go to a household with another dog or children.

Please help with any knowledge you have! We are just devastated at this point and I am EXHAUSTED from keeping all three dogs
separated all week.

Oh, and the oldest is 4 years old and the younger is 3 years old. They never fought until the younger one outgrew the older one in size, a little bit after he turned 1. They are both mixes that my husband got from a rescue.
 
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#2 ·
This is part of the breed. They are a Dog Aggressive breed. DA sets on at around 2 years more or less depending on the dog. This breeds fights are not like other breeds "scraps". As you have seen they are violent and dangerous. These dog were created as fighting dogs its what comes to them naturally. Keep them apart and don't have them with other dogs.
 
#4 ·
Why is it not possible to crate and rotate? http://www.pbrc.net/rotate.html

Dog aggression is not curable. Your bulldog could also be the aggressor when she is older. If you are not able to pay for a trainer to help you how to manage them, it's not their fault they have never been trained. I would start with basic obedience. My trainer is 86lbs soaking wet and has a 90+lb dog she has 100% control over. Teach them to walk on a leash. Spend time working with them individually so you have
 
#5 ·
Confidence. 30 minutes is unacceptable. Performance kennels posted a great video in how to break up fights while alone. Search on that and get a breakstick!
 
#6 ·
I dont agree with muzzling over some DA, just be responsible and crate train and crate and rotate. I hate when they have given you so many warnings yet you guys have chosen to ignore them ALL. Would think the vet bill alone would have had you keeping them apart. DA is not curable it is manageable with the right tools, dog crates, dog runs , proper leashes . I have DA dogs and never once had to muzzle one it comes down to proper containment.
Set up rules NO other dogs should come over for a visit that is really not needed , that is there home they should not have to be locked up for some visiting dog. 2nd those males should never be together again , I find anyways males tend to be the worst with eachother. Now that you have a female in the home that is another trigger for them , they will fight over her. Do not trust ANY of your dogs home alone together free , I would crate train all 3 of them if I were you and contain them when you are not there to watch , even the EB . { bulldogs can be aggressive like this as well , so watch for the same things with her }. There is a difference between dog aggression and human aggression. I wish people did there homework before buying this breed it really would save them time and money from the mistakes they learn the hard way. Putting a dog down due to DA is absurd IMO and I feel for the dogs who go through that all over there OWNERS not researching and understanding this is part of the breed.

I agree with getting a trainer but for working more on the watch or look commands, working basic obedience so you can walk peacefully with either boy and not be worried about other dogs during walks. I don't think you should ever have the boys together again though , they have given numerous warnings already IMO.

Best of luck.
Some threads to check out.
even though they are not puppys there is some good info in this thread you may want to read over, some contains to you some doesn't
http://www.gopitbull.com/obedience-...ing-american-pit-bull-terrier-your-puppy.html
http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/11710-newbs-everyone-else.html

you can also use the search at the top of the page and type in dog aggression or any other issue or item you want info on and a ton of threads will come up with some info. Will be alot of reading but most of the info you need will already be on here.
 
#7 ·
Oh man where do I even start. Like stated above these dogs are dog aggressive by nature. Over 100 years of breeding to be warrior dogs has made them this way. It's not a fault or lack of training it genetics coming into play. These dogs generally don't want or need doggy friends. I also agree on the OB training. I've been weight pull training my dog. He can very easily pull twice my weight, I'm not berry big to start with lol, but I have no issues handling or walking him at all. Please don't put these dogs down for normal breed behavior. That is 100% unfair to these dogs. If you can't handle crating and rotating and keeping all 3 separate then you need to find a place for them, not taking them in to PTS. Look for a foster or rescue that specifically deals with bull breeds.
 
#8 ·
How did you ever allow them to be together after the first time?
First time it may be an accident...but to repeat that accident is nobody's fault but your own.
Those dogs are in their prime, more or less. Fixing them may be what caused them to quit.
Had they not been altered, they may not have stopped until both or one were dead.

You know now what you have are Pit Dogs.
So either keep them apart, or find them better homes with more responsible owners.
Not trying to sound rude, just giving cold facts without sugar.
 
#9 ·
I saw this thread this morning when u first posted it and I immediately didn't want to get wrapped up in it, I figured enough people here share my point of view, u don't need to hear me on repeat. However, I will admit that I haven't read everything u posted, that's a long post for me to read at work. But I wanted to say that I would NEVER put a dog own for being DA. HA is totally different and never acceptable, but DA is something else altogether. No it can't be "cured" can u be "cured" so that u get along with every human u meet? No, I didn't think so. I rest my case. I just hope that u come back and read this and take heed all of our advice.
 
#10 ·
Also keep in mind that a DA dog doesn't automatically mean that the dog is a danger to children. Have you ever had any indication that he was aggressive towards people, adult our child?

As Odin said, you don't put dogs down for DA alone.
 
#11 ·
We thought we DID do the responsible thing by getting a proffeaional trainer (and no, not a petsmart one). He was sent to us through a put bull rescue that we contacted for help. He is te one that said there was no provlem keeping them together still. They have all been crate trained since 8 weeks. I'm sorry if my post was so log that those details eluded. I should have shortened my post, I kind of regret asking the question. I tried to make it clear that I do not need to be berated for everything we've done wrong - we understand and have much regret. We just don't know where I go from here. I have been actively searching for new homes for the dogs that can give them the time and attention they need with absolutely no luck so far. and of course that is heartbreaking for my husband but clearly we have no business owning Pitts. I don't understand them enough and have too much fear of them and he is very rarely home. Anyone that suggests using a Pitt rescue has clearly meet tried that in California - they don't take dogs unless they're badly abused strays. I've contacted many.
 
#17 ·
I am sorry that you got a bad trainer. Any trainer that knows this breed would have educated you better and set you on the right track to begin with not told you they would be ok together. Where in CA are you?
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
where in california are you? maybe someone on here can help find a home or foster for a bit until one is found . If that is the route you want to go. really dealing with DA is not hard , crate and rotate is a great way to solve this problem and very simple to do.
 
#13 ·
Were you able to read the crate and rotate link? I was not trying to make you feel bad! I honestly wanted you to know that it's normal, not something you Would put a dog to sleep over like the others have said.

You and your man just need to work out a schedule for all the dogs. You have already crate trained them. I wish I could search from my phone easier but one mod on here posted her schedule for keeping 10 dogs on crate and rotate. It might help to see how others do it for you to realize how easy safe and manageable it could be while keeping everyone safe.
 
#15 ·
Your dogs are not 'broken' or 'bad', they simply do not get along. I'm sorry you were given poor advice by the trainer, he or she was completely wrong to tell you that any future fights would not be 'as bad' Usually, the dogs get BETTER at fighting as they practice that behavior.
Crate/rotate isn't as bad as it sounds, it becomes pretty easy after finding a routine that works for all involved and it keeps everyone safe. It is far preferable to the stress of trying to force two dogs who don't like each other to get along and it's about a million times less stressful than breaking up a serious fight.
I run a rescue in California and yes, we are swamped. I mostly try to focus on helping people keep the dogs they have, there is simply no room for the hundreds of dogs looking for homes. I fly way under the radar and I STILL get anywhere from 5 to 10 e-mails a day, each with stories that would break your heart. YOU are your dogs best advocate. You know them, you love them (or maybe you aren't that invested, since they are the SO's dogs, I don't know)
Where are you located?
 
#16 ·
I'm not sure where in CA you are but I know they just opened another one up here in my area, they are a pet rescue but they have a dedicated Pit program. These dogs get a ton of attention and all get training to pass CGC tests :) after the dog has done its CGC they pay for the spay/neuter and then adopt them to educated owners. They will tell you straight up these dogs are not for everyone, which I like cause I can't stand to see people sugar coat this breed and lure people into such a false reality with their dogs.

Second Chance Pet Rescue | Dedicated to giving adoptable animals a second chance at life.
 
#19 ·
I never had a dog that would fight because there was another dog. But with the walking situation and being in public, i would only take one at a time and buy them both harnesses. I bought one for my pit and it actually helps the pulling and jumping because it's controlling their upper body, unlike a chocker chain or a regular collar only controls the neck. I would also just start to walk around the block with the pitts one at a time just to kinda get them leash trained and used to seeing the neighbors. If they try lunging at people and or jump on them them maybe for a little while while walking them change sides of the street that the person is walking or riding a bike down, just to avoid the problem. I hope my info will help.
 
#22 ·
I never had a dog that would fight because there was another dog. I hope my info will help.
Krista, if you never had a dog with real, true traits of the apbt then why would you even comment? Dog aggression is the number 1 issue in this breed and it IS the easiest thing to AVOID! You may have control of it but you still can never trust them not fight. I could never advise anyone other wise.
Some dogs can live in a pack setting, I've seen it! I live it! I have 6 , But I crate and rotate 2. They are perfectly good dogs but they just need some space.....or they'll destroy each other. Not my plan and you cant take chances with a pit bull dog. I do it because they don't have a chance at life any where else
 
#20 ·
Why are you going to be scared of your own pitts. If they don't act right it is all because the owner. Seriously if you dont pay attention and be nice to the dog, he or she wont do it at all for you. If your pitt is aggressive it's because of you and who ever else cares for them. Im sorry to say this but you oclearly shouldn't have a pet you dont pay attention to. Thats cruel, imagine if you were the dog and didnt get the attention needed or whatever it is they want you would feel really bad, does it hurt your feelings when your dog looks at you and you shoo it away or notice it;s sad and wants attention or just be loved. Thats not right your suppose to plan things out before you get a dog it like having a baby, it's serious.
 
#21 ·
So you're saying that a "pitt" (by the way it's 1 t,not 2) is DA because of the owners?MmmHmmm......sounds like you have a bit of learning to do.
And where in her post anywhere did she say that whenever her dogs come over to her she shoos them away and doesn't pay attention to them?I think you're reading a hell of alot into her post.
To the OP,I think crate and rotating is your best option.It's easier than it sounds.If you do decide you cannot handle the huge responsibility it is owning this breed,let alone 2 of this breed,then rehome to someone who knows and understands this breed.Not an ignorant ass like the one who posted above me
 
#25 ·
The problem being, we rescues are FLOODED with dogs the owners can no longer keep 'because they don't get along', because 'we are moving' because 'they don't like the cat' because 'we are having a baby' or whatever.
I have 6 dogs here, only 2 of which are mine. My two can interact with supervision, two of the others can with each other, but not those same 4 or combinations of them. It's all day crate rotate here, this dog in this room, this dog in the yard, this dog in the other yard, this dog in another room. Rinse, lather, repeat. Feed, walk, play, train.... go to work and field umpteen e-mails about how someone can't keep 2 dogs because it is 'too hard', yet they seldom want advice on how to make it work, and work well.
It's really not that hard, once you get the hang of it. Dogs that have beef shouldn't have access to each other.
 
#26 ·
Some good advice from alot of good peeps.. The title of the post say enough for me not to read the opening statement.

American PIT Bull Terrier ~ is revered worldwide as the ultimate [fighting] dog, thus its origins which EVERYONE is familiar enough to know they FIGHT.

You adopted a "Pit Bull" or what do they call em in shelters now: "pitties"? To soften the term.. no doubt. They really have no clue on dog origin or how to adopt these dogs out for the most part. I started as a vet tech for the SPCA by the way. Soon given the assignment of isolation dogs and dog/partner paring because I was tired of seeing people put down dogs they wanted but didn't need and adopting more dogs in the same manner. Come in put down her APBT who was 7 and fine but no: "she was old and cripple" .. NO she was killing every dog she could. Then the lady sobs and sobs and BAM! she asks can I look at your small dogs do you have jack russells .. :hammer: ARRRGGHH!!!!!

Begging the question: should you put your dog down or can DA be curbed. ...

(I did read your opening post by the way)

Im a firm believer in understanding origin to understand YOUR problem, because its not the dog. The dog is a dog. You don't expect a wolf to be anything but a wolf do you? Do you expect a fox to be anything less than a fox? How about dogs? Do you expect them to be any less than a dog?

Don't assume anything less than two dogs of the same sex are gonna get in spats and if you do not assume alpha one of your dogs will. STEP UP and handle your dogs. If two adult dogs of opposite sex are suddenly put together they are just as likely to fight. The best fighting dogs ever were female. Don't piss a bitch off! :D ANYway..

its real simple. All those wanna be dog trainers out there are screwing people up worse than the dogs which makes it even worse for people and the dogs :hammer:

Richard F. Stratton ................. Get a book any book, and begin to understand the mentality of your dog, not your opinion of it nor the shelters nor the medias but the source of documentation of the breed collaborated for bulldog students like ourselves. Even more so GREAT for educating the PUBLIC not to go waving them in air but for sure keep the knowledge and promote people to search for the answers to their questions by diving in the book themselves.

If you have any confidence in yourself then all the training tips you need are here on GPB. I wouldnt pay any trainer: in which you walk in first day and leave your dog, in which couldn't take a problem dog or my dog and show me a change in behavior right then just something small that I couldnt do. inwhich has no breed knowledge of history or purpose. At most you need someone to show you how to break your dogs up.

get a pill bottle put some change in it, when they start that crap throw it at em or at the ground between em and let out a good gutteral AHT (AT) they'll stop usually and you then say "BAD DOG" I dont use bad dog very often but thats one time I DO. Then if they test you or tempt or taunt each other in any way ... AHT >> IN THE CRATE.. they will go. BIGGEST thing is DON'T panic. Then your dogs are fighting because your scared and they're protecting you. Relax.

People don't adopt teenagers into a home of teenagers without expecting quarrels, so whats the similarities here?

Trying is preparing to fail~ Did you adopt an APBT to save it and give it a stable home: because you obviously like em or you wouldnt have gotten one, or did you "want to try and save one cause he/she seemed so sweeet?" A good deal of ch pit dogs were very sweet and their owners loved them dearly and they were the nanny dog for them while they were at work or in the field. Don't expect a "pitbull" not to fight........

Get TWO crates..

make you a dog corner. Give them a solid chew toy in their crate. Start exercising them more and in doin so work on your training. Dogs are built to run and piss all day..

What do people expect of them? They can't read a multitude of signs, they don't have opposible thumbs, and they are a walking liability because accidents are from ignorance which is simply a lack of knowing; which does not hold up in court.

IF the "pitbull" is not for you then ALL OF THE BREEDS that are considered PIT BULL type and are down from or cousins to such should also be taken off your list. If you can't handle DA and are afraid and don't want to change your views then you probably should just take it back to the shelter.

How ever, if you want to fight for the breed and keep your dog... Do the responsible thing even if you have to crate and rotate. Don't put two dogs of the same sex in the house and expect no fights or spats; don't adopt an adult dog to put in the home with an adult dog and expect no spats.. being relaxed around each other will be the best treatment for them. Go out in the yard and give them each a ball and keep the fetch game going. Walk em down to the water if you have any if not go somewhere that does. A tired dog is a happy dog. Don't tolerate DA and use a bean bag or a pill bottle to catch it in moment or before accompanied with that AHT, if it can be curbed it will be if it can't then CRATE and ROTATE or forget about bulldog breeds all together. IF it seemed like I repeated myself its because some things need to be reiterated.

Good luck and best wishes............
 
#32 ·
It is interesting reading what advice people give... I have met plenty of pitbulls that are not dog aggressive. I have met plenty of dogs that are not pitbulls that are dog aggressive. All animals have a time in their very early stages of life of being 'imprinted', learning certain behaviors due to their environment and then the behaviors sticking with them. It seems pointless to try to blame something on the bad behavior but to just figure out how to deal with it. Cesar Milan gets a bad rap, but I enjoy watching and listening to him and assume that he is real and that he is not full of lies. He would not agree that you cannot train a dog out of being aggressive. Here is an episode of the Dog Whisperer that you might like: It is kind of a long one, but it is very inspiring and I know because I am also working with a dog with aggression.
Ultimately, though, it sounds like you don't have a whole lot of time on your hands. Could that be part of the problem? I hope things work out for you.
 
#36 ·
It is interesting reading what advice people give... I have met plenty of pitbulls that are not dog aggressive. I have met plenty of dogs that are not pitbulls that are dog aggressive. All animals have a time in their very early stages of life of being 'imprinted', learning certain behaviors due to their environment and then the behaviors sticking with them. It seems pointless to try to blame something on the bad behavior but to just figure out how to deal with it. Cesar Milan gets a bad rap, but I enjoy watching and listening to him and assume that he is real and that he is not full of lies. He would not agree that you cannot train a dog out of being aggressive. Here is an episode of the Dog Whisperer that you might like: Season 4 Episode 30 part 1 - YouTube It is kind of a long one, but it is very inspiring and I know because I am also working with a dog with aggression.
Ultimately, though, it sounds like you don't have a whole lot of time on your hands. Could that be part of the problem? I hope things work out for you.
If you think cesaer has not had "accidents " on his yard you are poorly mistaken. There are video's that show him setting dogs up to fail and having them go at it on camera and having people scramble cause they didn't read the body language of the dogs and break it up before it go to a fight. He is an idiot who plays on the fur mommys heart strings and makes it seem like this breed is perfect for doggy parks and little play dates. This breed is what it is, why do people want to change things that dont need to be changed. If you want a doggy park play buddy then get a different breed. If people just researched breeds and got what SUITS their lifestyle and home and wants in a dog there would be alot less reports of this breed in the media.

Krista YOu are just wayyyy off base with your comment on it being the owners. There are people on here that are way more qualified in training, working and have owned this breed longer then you who DO have dog aggressive dogs, to say it is them is ABSURD. You just lucked out to have some watered down , possibly mixed or just a curr of a dog to never have dealt with it. I hope you educate yourself enough before you end up getting another dog and heaven forbid find out it is NOT all in the owner. Heaven forbid you learn the hard way. You are lucky you dogs have not been reactive yet but never say never. Seen some dogs in there elder years change to become dog aggressive it is never too late.
 
#33 ·
Cesar is an idiot... check out the other Cesar threads if you have questions. I'm hoping you read this whole thread and what people said about this breed being bred for the pit. Would you put a border collie in a field of sheep and try and train it not to heard? You may have a little success but the second that BC gets a chance to be free and away from you they are going to do what instinct tells them. You are fighting an instinct behavior not a training issue. You sound very nieve and you are newer to the breed. Hopefully you stick around learn what this breed is all about. Just because you have had a little success with DA doesn't mean that can happen with all pits and it also doesn't mean you are not going to have a problem later. I have had bitches get along for 9 years..... 9 years they were best buds till one day they hate each other. This is completely normal and what pit owners do not need is some asshat on TV to give them a false sense of security that it's all in how the dogs are raised bullcrap...... My suggestion is that you do some research about what this breed was bred and raised for.

The last thing this breed needs is someone trying to give bad advice that you can train the DA out of a pitbull.
 
#34 ·
Nuh uh! Most owners don't have the ability to guarantee an accident won't happen...no matter how you raise them, the minute they decide to think for themselves, it's on! Don't encourage setting up a dog to fail! You should be pushing responsible ownership and not "if I can do it, you can do it". That and a cup of kibble will give you :poop:
 
#35 ·
Put a Bulldog down for dog aggression? Jesus..

Rehome to someone experienced if your not willing tonset aside the pride and accept how these ''type'' of animals are genetically.

Even the most experienced of folk have accidental yard scraps or fights throughout their life times, no one is perfect and we all have duh moments. However if you dont learn from those moments you are unable to gain from this and in thr end it will happen again and again..

Thats all i have to offer because it has all been said too many times and research should have been done before getting a Bulldog or a dog with Bulldog in the genes, these dogs are noy for everyone and many realize this too late.
 
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