lyssababe

Actually scientifically dogs are carnivores! under the order of carnivora. Not until recently was the domestic dog's name changed from canis lupis (wolf) to canis lupis familiaris. I strongly beleive that dogs are carnivores and also think iots cruel to feed them a vegan diet. I have 1 dog and 3 cats, all which are fed nothing but a raw prey model diet. All are doing much better than the premium kibble they used to be fed. All you have to do is look at their anatomy to see that their are just like the wolf. Us humans have only changed their look, not their internal structure. I would never fed my pets a commercial pet food again or any fruits or veggies!

DueceAddicTed

Point is simple nature created each animal with a digestive system made to fit them and what their bodies need ... be they carnivore, ominivore, herbivore for a reason. WE as humans like to shove our beliefs or "new found" life styles on our animals.

My dog will eat meat thats what he is suppose to eat.

I wish your dogs the best and hope that you do not have to deal with major health problems later in life over this.

Like Lisa I have only ever seen very unhealthy looking vegans so maybe they are not doing something right. My friends boyfriend became a vegan and lost all his hair and I mean ALL ...... eyebrows , lashes, body hair all ...

TO each his own , best of health to the animals caught in the middle .....

zohawn

their order and scientific name have nothing to do with the topic =p

ChaosAPBT

And please do, cause people really needed to be educated on how bad that stuff is from a non biased source. People need to get over the "digestibility" thing and realize something. There are plenty of things you or your dog can digest, but are they really all things that are healthy? Nope!


I still think that even the best kibble does not compare to a proper raw diet. It still lacks, if you think the qualities it lacks is miniscule that's up to you. Its also not what it lacks, but its whats not necessary that makes a difference, from my perspective at least.


Dogs have become domesticated, but its only the last 100 or so years that they have been fed a domesticated diet (processed foods). Not long enough for a predator as well developed for doing its job as a K9.

I personally rotate a good raw diet and good kibble. Veggies? Well, that's wasteful. They do not fully digest unless they are cooked. That takes out nutrients and enzymes. Dogs may be omnivores but its the sweet tooth in them that makes them crave veggies and fruits, sweet ones anyway. I supplement with soft fruit instead. One may argue that their prey may be a herbivore, but again, herbivores digest their food differently so by the time a K9 gets a chance to dine on said herbivore its mostly digested. My previous dog, a Husky, lived nearly 15 years on a raw diet. It was the runt out of a bad liter to begin with but was as healthy as a dog could be.

Chad M. Lane

"people saw raw is natural for dogs, well it's really not anymore. Dog are not wolves they are domesticated animals and their digestive systems are not the same anymore. " Completely wrong and I strongly disagree.

Fact and opinion are two total different concepts.

The fact dogs are carnovoies and not omnivores is fact NOT opinion.
Because we've been breeding dogs for 1000's of years but only fed dried kibble since the 1860's a 170 years changes the digestive system of a dog? I think not, and recent and old studies have proved our dogs have 99.7% identical digestive systems as there subspecies the Grey Wolf, yes around 10 years ago dogs were reclassified as a subspecies of Grey Wolf. Pre 170 years ago dogs ate meat scraps from butchers and found rodents among other things while living on the farm. As for looking at our dogs then a Wolf yes outwards they look different but how the digestive system and DNA, mtDNA says our dogs are 99.7% related and are subspecies of Grey Wolf no matter what you care to think.

Grey Wolves (Canis lupus) are a different different species of Wolf than the Red Wolf (Canis rufus rufus), yes both species have been bred into our domestic dogs (Canis lupus familiaris), but are valid and separate species, subspecies.

Dogs digestive systems are much to short and lack enzymes to properly digest plant matter, there's many studies showing this including Wolves that eat berries that they can't digest. That's why in kibbles we have to either puree or hydrolyze Veggies and Fruits to use any of the minerals and other nutrients found in plants. As our dogs lack the molars to crush individual cell walls of plant matter in order to utilize all of the minerals, fiber, phytonutrients etc..
Have you ever had a dog that eats grass? Then see it in their poop later? It's because plant matter is not digestible. I hear it all the time at work, I home cook for my dog, chicken and rice but he poops out the rice basically whole why is that? duh makes perfect sense to me that the dog is not and can't use it. Simply put grains and plant matter are in kibbles for two reasons. The first reason mostly grains is it's cheap. Second reason to keep the kibble shape you HAVE to have a starch or carbohydrate to keep the kibble formed as meat will just fall apart.

Heck I can eat Mc Donalds and live on it, doesn't mean it's good for me.
Though when I feed a half a chicken I can't even find a fragment of bone in the poop just find chalky powder from digested bone.

There is tons of sites and things saying grains and plants are goods, but if we look at it deeper than just saying a dog can live on a grain based food, and they do. If you look at the morphology, and digestive track, and the history of them before plant based kibbles came out it all points to carnivores not omnivores you really can't argue that if you have any understanding of a dogs anatomy. Heck besides hard working dogs that lived outside, dogs that at raw meat, and scraps before kibble was made lived a lot longer without TONS of health issues! 90% of our health issues now days are directly related to diet. Arthritis, Epilepsy, many cancers, have all be linked to diet related. Many of these health issues were non-existent many years ago.

Here's a fantastic site please check it out.
Myths About Raw: Are dogs omnivores?
Myths About Raw: Are dogs too far removed from wolves to be fed raw food?

Sorry for my rant sorry if I repeated things that have been said as I didn't read the whole threat, just the commented I quoted really bugged me I understand we can't change everyones minds but at least real facts are out there, it's up to them to chose to believe facts or not, even if they are wrong.



Cheers,
Chad

Harley D

One dog out of how many?Sorry but if you look at their teeth set compared to the wolves, now compare them to a horses set of teeth...now look closely... it is clear as day they are still meat eaters.
That is just the outside proof that are designed for meat.

__________________
a wise man once said something...but I wasnt listening

KMdogs

1. Purina, of all kinds is crap.. Anyone who disagrees i can back this statement up ten fold.. Fillers and garbage, if you feed it with results its due to genetics..Nothing more or less.
2. Vegan and vegetarian (yes, they are two DIFFERENT things and dont count on PETA) is fine if an adult human decides to do so for themselves, animals are animals.. Domesticated or not dogs need meat and im utterly disgusted that people can get away with feeding these "complete veggie diets" to their animals and get away with it. I've only seen two dogs that were fed these type of diets, one was on it for a few months and the coat was dull, fairly inactive and overall the demeanor was poor.. The other extremely thin and got a sense of fatigue..24/7.

Quit trying to humanize the k9 community.. They may be part of your family but they are still animals and need to be treated accordingly.

__________________
"It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are" - Cummings

"If think you can't, you're right. If think you can, you're right." - Hatton

Kaydeon Kyle

I feel the need to chime in here, even though I am not going to say anything that hasn't been more or less said already.

I have been living on a vegan diet for the last three years. Golden Gloves boxer, competitive cyclist, and long distance runner- I have a very good sense of my body's ability from day to day and it has been my experience that a vegan diet not only aligns with my moral principles, but keeps me in better condition than I've been on eating any other way.

Having said that, dogs are not humans. From our teeth to our digestive systems, differences abound. Making a choice for your dog that it's obviously unable to make for itself, one that is so far in the opposite direction of what it not only wants, but NEEDS- it's about as unfair as someone forcing a hamburger down your throat.

I have to admit that it has been a semi-strange experience for me going into butchers and buying whole chickens and beef kidney and turkey necks and tails and feet and heads. But I feel better about it than I would about feeding kibble. Here are two reasons why-

1. My dogs like it more and it is probably better for them. I regret that I cannot often afford them the opportunity pluck food from the wild, but any fool can see how it's at least one step closer to nature.

2. Half of my reasons for going vegan involve the industrialization of food and practices that I consider unhealthy for me and horrific for the animals involved. I source my meat from ethical farms that raise and kill their animals (or at least i pray they do) a little more respectfully. I don't know where the animals in kibble come from. I can rest much more easily about the money I spend on the animals my dogs eat when I get them myself.

It's really easy to get locked into a lifestyle and apply your philosophies to everything under the sun- just remember that there are always more than one way to see a thing. Is it cruel that a snake strangles a rat, or would it be more cruel that the snake starve? I don't doubt that a dog could live on a meat-free diet, but I DO doubt that it would thrive. Something to think about, I hope.

KMdogs

You may be banned, still an idiot on the subject.

And to the topic, give me a thick juicy medium rare steak and to them hounds raw or Orijen.

Vegan diets to dogs? All this PETA bullshit talk is nothing but that.

K9 ain't the same as humans so everyone needs stop comparing the two, great a human can live well as vegan. Give the damn hound meat or don't own a damn dog if it breaks your little heart.

__________________
"It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are" - Cummings

"If think you can't, you're right. If think you can, you're right." - Hatton

Raazor

Quick nob question. Is feeding one kind of meat ok? Specifically chicken back/neck/gizzards?

EckoMac

No, feeding only one protein source is not enough. You need to really research raw before you start throwing meat in a bowl and calling it dinner. Prey Model Raw is what I feed, and I hit the butcher once a month for meat, bone, and organs from as many protein sources as possible. I researched it for several months, and have a mentor on speed dial just in case.

__________________


There comes a time in your life, when you walk away from all the drama and people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh. Forget the bad, and focus on the good. Love the people who treat you right, pray for the ones who don't. Life is too short to be anything but happy. Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living.

KMdogs

Also depends on who you ask with raw, i wouldnt recommend chicken.. Bear, deer, boar, elk, bison.. Far better options imo. To each their own though, what most consider great methods of feed whether kibble or raw i disagree with

__________________
"It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are" - Cummings

"If think you can't, you're right. If think you can, you're right." - Hatton

Raazor

How will feeding chicken only affect the puppy? In terms of health and so on.