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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hermossa Costa Rica
What can you tell me about that CASSIUS CLAY dog? Where did he come from? O.K. CASSIUS CLAY was brought from a preacher by Pat Bodzionowski for $10. The preacher was from Southern Illinois, just south of Chicago, and he got rid of the dog because he was killing dogs on the street and dragging them back to the church. He was driving the preacher crazy. Nobody knows how CLAY was bred and he, for sure, was not out of TEDDY or any other Corvino dog. I had TEDDY until he died and he was never bred to any bitched outside my own yard. TEDDY was never bred to GOLDIE, CRAZY MARY or any of those other bitches that I see in the magazine ads. Anyway, back to CASSIUS CLAY. He was a bid red dog with a black mask and he was a crazy acting dog. When Pat bought him he rolled him numerous times, but never matched him for money. I tried to stop that dog but I couldnít stop him. In the pit he would bark, growl and lay down, but he wouldnít stop. Once a man told me that he won 18 or 19 fights. Well let me tell you, he was never conditioned for a money fight until Pat sold the dog to Don Devine of Florida. Don came up here to buy the dog because he thought he was a Corvino bred dog. He paid $900 for the dog and that was a lot of money in those days. When he was over here he was so nervous walking around with that money that he asked me to put it in my safe. At that time, I had a bar that was always full of Mexican and black people and they would do more cutting amongst each other than they do in the hospital. Devine gave me the money and the next day he bought the dog. He matched CLAY into STRIDER from, I believe, Greenwood or Maloney. The fight was in Pickens Mississippi at 5:30 in the morning. CLAY won that fight and then Devine won another fight with him that was not too good, so he never matched him again. One time when Pat still owed the dog, I asked him to give me the dog so I could work and match him. He gave him to me, but the dog was trying to kill me because he didnít like me. Even when I came close to feed him, his eyes would turn green and he was going crazy. So, I called Pat and said ďget that son of a bitch out of here!Ē
Who put the false papers on CASSIUS CLAY? Do you know if Devine knew about that? Iím sure Pat put those papers on the dog. I donít care, itís not my business. I donít do it, but if somebody else will do it, itís their business not mine. There are a lot of dogs with false papers on them that the public knows nothing about. You have to understand one thing; we are dogfighters first, foremost and alwaysÖ like I already told you TEDDY was never bred to the females that are being mentioned in that ad on the back of the Journal.
You just said that Bert Sorrels would be a good choice to buy a dog from! Yes. TEDDY was never bred to those females. They were bred to Sykeís DUGGAN II. So anywhere you read TEDDY you should read DUGGAN II. He was a litter brother to Girouxís BEAR out of Huntís PETE and MUGGS sometimes called REGGIE.
Who made the pedigrees with TEDDY up and do you know if Sorrels knows about this? I donít know who made them up and I donít know if he knows about it, but he will know it now. You see, TEDDY had a big reputation. I matched TEDDY into Al Offer and won in 2 hours and 14 minutes. At that time he was already 7 years old and no teeth left. He was a game dog, but DUGGAN II was a good dog too. TEDDY died February 14, 1964, and Iím telling you the truth he was never bred to those bitches. I will tell you something else, too, about GOING LIGHT BARNEY; Joe sold his sire ( a dog called BOOGER) to Morris Rootberg for a guard. Rootgerg wrote Joe a letter asking for a guard dog and Joe had a different type of dog for different kind of people. So he sold him this dog which was not out of his fighting stock. Joe put the dogís papers on his name then sold him to Rootberg. Then Rootberg sold his restaurant and moved to California and bred that dog to a Corvino female named CRAZY MARY and that breeding produced GOING LIGHT BARNEY. His father was not a Corvino dog!
Why would Joe put false papers on a dog? Because he knew that some people that asked him for a guard dog, or a pet wouldnít match them anyway. Thatís how I feel about it. He would just polish up the dog by putting another pedigree on him, thatís all.
Do you know if the owner of GOING LIGHT BARNEY knew all this? I donít know. I doubt it!
What was your relation to Maurice Carver, Leo Kinard and Howard Teal, for instance? Teal was a good dogman and Iím good friends with him. Teal is from North Carolina and he owned a restaurant over there. Teal had some of those old Colby dogs that originated the REDBOY line. I donít know if his SARGE dog was a Colby dog. I believe somebody dropped the dog off at his place and that he put the papers on him. But SARGE would be REDBOYíS sire. SARGE was a good dog, but he lost his last fight. That part of the country where he came from always produced a lot of good dogmen. Leo and Maurice were both good friends of mine. Leo had a super nice place and Iíve been there many times. He would always give you a fair and square deal. I remember I was asking him some questions once like you are asking me now and bla, bla, blaÖ and he said, ďSonny, the more Iím around these son of a bitches, the less I know.Ē Just look around you and see well bred dogs that have won 2 or 3 fights, and then comes one of those scatter bred dogs and just kills them! On a scale of 10 I would say that breeding your dogs in a family and looking at the pedigrees will bring you a 4 or a 5, but them real good sons of bitchesÖ. They are where you find them. Maurice was a good dogman. There is some controversy about him faking pedigrees and Iím sure he did to some extent, but Iím also sure that all those big time breeders do the same thing. When the bad overshadows the good I think you have a problem, but he sent me a lot of good dogs. Let me tell you what kind of man Maurice was. If he knew I had a good dog he would be on the phone asking me if he could breed to him. Carver told me he made a mistake by breeding to BULLYSON and that he wanted to breed to a dog called BOOTS the BLACKSMITH. Carver was with the border patrol and he had two 44 magnums. He gave one to Eddie Klaus and the other one to Hernandez. Hernandez gave me that 44 after Carver died. Earl Tudor was a very active dogfighter, but people that say he was just a fighter donít know what they are talking about because he bred some real good dogs too. Joe had a friend who worked at the post office where Tudor got his mail. This was a black man, his name was Silvers, and this Silvers would open Tudorís mail and tell Joe what was in the lettersÖ itís incredible but Joe got Earlís mail before he did.
Do you believe that a pure Corvino dog would be enough to compete these days? Well, I would sat that they are basically game dogs. Now, they would be a little clumsy and they would need a little dunky in them now and then.
What kind of dogs do you have now? I am no longer in the game, but I do have a few dogs that I keep because I like dogs and really my wife Bridgette was the one that talked me into this. I have some BOOMERANG dogs that I like and I got them from a guy in Minnesota named Reuvers. He was a policeman and got a lot of people in trouble, but at the time he spent a lot of money buying good dogs. BOOMERANG goes back to that Elias PISTOL and he was out of that RASCAL dog.
Boudreauxís RASCAL you mean? Or Trahanís RASCAL or Pete Lormondís RASCAL, whatever you want to call him. Listen , a man named Hanson wanted to buy a dog from Joe, so he wrote him a letter. Joe was out of town that time so they forwarded his mail and called back telling Joe Jr. to send this Hansen a pup. Hansen wanted to buy a show dog, but Joe Jr. sent the wrong dog and sent RASCAL who was out of Joeís fighting stock. Hanson didnít like the dog because of his build and gave the dog to a man named Claville. This man called RASCAL, PIMPLE, but itís still the same dog. Then Pete Lormond had him for a while and RASCAL stayed around Lafayette, thatís for sure. From there on he went to, I believe, Trahan and I seen him chained up behind the grocery store that was owned by a man named LaVergne and thatís how far I know about him. There was another dog over there that was also a Corvino dog called Pete Lormondís BLACKY. They rolled BLACKY into RASCAL, but BLACKY was beating RASCAL so they picked him up. Lormond was a truck driver who drove between Lafayette and Chicago and he brought these dogs down South with him.
What can you tell me about Altieriís TIM? I owned TIM. Alieri was Joeís son-in-law and he gave the dog to me, I never changed his name. At the time a man named Wilson who was a friend of mine and Joe came by with a bitch and bred to TIM. He had two pups in the litter and I told him he could keep both. I never expected him to sell these pups to Indian Sonny. Otherwise they would never have left Chicago. But, anyway, Wilson was a friend of mine and I really didnít care, but thatís how Indian CRUSHER went to California. In Chicago they called this dog RHINO, but Sonny changed his name to CRUSHER.
When did Indian Sonny come into the picture? One of the first to ship a dog to California was Freddie Jones and then Vern Baker brought COUNTRY BOY over there. He paid Gaboon Trahan $500 for the dog and we thought that was the end of world. $500 for a bulldog! Then Indian Sonny followed and you really didnít have a whole lot of people. Glen Jones in Oregon had a few, but that was about it. Now theyíre everywhere and the younger generation are 100% more knowledgeable than the first. Indian Sonny is of the older generation. He is a good dogman and conditioner, but he bears watching.
What about that poem you wrote? Well, the people that I talked about, they know what I mean. Stratton wrote that book about all those people from that part of the country, but what ever happened to the people from New York or from Chicago? If it really comes down to it, all the good ones come from Illinois. You can trace every one of them back, and they all go back to BOUNCER, GIMP, and DIBO and all that stuff. These dogs were Corvino, Feely and Menefee. In Chicago, you had all the good dogmen like Feely, Pat Conroy, Patty Mallet, the Farmer Brothers and so many others.
Do you believe there will ever be a state where dogfighting will be legal like the chickens? No, I donít think so because it has gone too far in the media, but they can never stop it. This is America! Like Pete Sparks said, as long as there are two men and two bulldogs, there will be dogfighting. Did they ever stop the drugs? Did they stop the Klu Klux Klan? Arenít they more a threat than us? Then how can they stop dog fighting?
Do you believe the magazines are doing any good to this cause? I donít know. We are the only ones that advertise our last and next move in the magazine. Do you know of a bank robber that puts in a magazine that he robbed a bank in only 3 minutes and that he is going to this and that bank next month? We are the only ones that advertise things in the book that we know are against the law, so what does that tell you Peter ParkerÖ. THAT WE ARE LOUSY BANK ROBBERS! Right, now shut off your tape and letís get out of the dogs! The endÖ.