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Old 04-21-2009, 03:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by SadieBlues View Post

7. What type of contract does the breeder have for pet or show puppies (it should include a spay/neuter agreement and health guarantee)? Do not get pressured into becoming contracted to show or breed your dog even if you do plan to show and possibly get into breeding someday. Everything should be spelled out in the contract. And be wary of a breeder sells you a young puppy that is "definitely show quality." So much happens during growth and development the younger the puppy; the harder it is to tell show quality. A breeder who really knows the breed can tell if a young pup has POTENTIAL but should not be guaranteeing the dog will be a show dog. Another red flag is the breeder who has no written contract at all. All puppies whether pet or show potential should be sold with a written contract.
As someone who is considering breeding sometime in the future, I would greatly appreciate it if you had an example of a good contract.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I think that breeding responsibly will help the future of our great breed so thanks for such a great post and great replies.
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
 

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Probably the best definition I have found so far to answer "What is a back yard breeder (BYB)?" comes from Boxerworld.com:

"The average pet owner that breeds their dog(s)."





So, why are back yard breeders a problem? Well, they just breed dogs for the sake of it. They may have a sweet pet they want to try and reproduce or they think that their dogs are quality because they have papers and/or are registered with some registry. They think maybe they can make a few dollars selling pups, etc. They just put out dogs without real consideration for the future of not only the breed but the puppies produced.

Often, BYBs breed dogs with faults. This perpetuates fault and problems in the breed. They do nothing to prove their dogs are of sound temperament and that they are breeding good representatives of the breed, etc. They just breed. And often, they do not even breed purebreds. Some BYBs "create" neat sounding things and think they are breeds - like Dalimers. This was seen listed in the Washington Post as a rare, German breed. Well, they are mutts - crosses of Dalmatians and Weimeraners, nothing more than a back yarder trying to make a buck

But many people who show and breed dogs do so from their homes? How do you know is a breeder is good or not? Through EDUCATION and ASKING questions. These questions will help you out:

"Sadly, not all people professing to be reputable and responsible breeders are. A good breeder will all but interrogate you. You should also have the chance to question the breeder. If you are not sure or uneasy with an answer, do not hesitate to ask for an explanation. If at any time you get an uneasy feeling or just are not satisfied, look elsewhere. A few things to ask about are:

1. What is the asking price of the puppies? Some breeders will ask the same for pet quality and show potential puppies. Compare prices with other breeders of the same breed and if the price is considerably higher or lower do not hesitate to ask why. Do not hesitate to ask why if there is a big difference in pet and show pups. Unless there is a visible disqualification or the puppy visibly will not be showing potential, the younger the pup the harder it is to determine show quality. A person who really knows the breed can have a good idea what pups have show POTENTIAL and what may not. Much happens while the puppy grows and that eight week show prospect may not be show potential at 9 months! And avoid ANY breeder who charges different for males or females or who charges extra if you want a pedigree or registration. It is not that expensive to register a litter so the potential owners can individually register puppies. (Many kennel clubs like the AKC require all litters to be registered by the breeder. Then papers are sent out that are given to buyers of puppies so the owner can register them in their name).

2. What health tests have been done on BOTH parents of the litter? Any dog should have hips (OFA or PennHip), eyes (CERF) and ideally thyroid prior to breeding. Then is up to you as potential buyer to know what other tests the breed you are looking at should have. Even crossbred puppies are prone to hereditary health issues and parents should be tested prior to breeding for anything common within the two breeds crossed. Though a reputable breeder will NOT cross as the predicability in outcome is less and there are too many negligent litters of crossbred pups from unaltered pets. The breeder should be able to show documentation of all tests and do not hesitate to verify the results. Do not blindly accept their word – some dishonest breeders will lie and say all tests have been done. And if the breeder says there is nothing in the line so testing is not important, avoid this person as well. Some health problems are polygenetic (more than one set of genes involved – not a simple dominant/recessive). Some health problems take years to show fully or may be there but not showing outwardly. For example, some dysplastic dogs never show signs of having it and it is only diagnosed upon testing.

3. What temperament testing and socialization has been done? Granted, young puppies should not leave the property due to a growing immune system; however, the breeder should expose the puppies to as many things as possible like vacuum cleaners, children, house sounds, etc. The older the puppy, the more experiences it should have. Has the breeder temperament tested and what method was used? A good breeder will help match the right personality to you. If you are a quiet family and the breeder pushes a dominant pup on you, leave. On the other hand, if you like the look of one puppy and the breeder, after interviewing you, decides it is not the right match, respect that.

4. What goals does the breeder have with the breeding program and how does the breeder go about to achieve this? If the breeder breeds just to produce more dogs, for pets only or anything that does not go towards the bettering of the breeder's lines and the breed as a whole, go elsewhere. And if the breeder breeds for working ability first, you could end up with a handful! Look for one who breeds for companionship as well as type and working ability – unless you are looking exclusively for a working dog.

5. What does the breeder feel are the strengths and weaknesses in the breed and the breeder's program? The breeder should be open with you about the program and where they hope to go with it. Avoid the breeder who insists there are no better dogs around then his.

6. Can you see the pedigrees of both sire and dam? Can you see at least the dam on premises? The sire may not be on site but the dam should be. If not, you could be dealing with a broker (one who sells dogs not bred by that person).

7. What type of contract does the breeder have for pet or show puppies (it should include a spay/neuter agreement and health guarantee)? Do not get pressured into becoming contracted to show or breed your dog – even if you do plan to show and possibly get into breeding someday. Everything should be spelled out in the contract. And be wary of a breeder sells you a young puppy that is "definitely show quality." So much happens during growth and development – the younger the puppy; the harder it is to tell show quality. A breeder who really knows the breed can tell if a young pup has POTENTIAL but should not be guaranteeing the dog will be a show dog. Another red flag is the breeder who has no written contract at all. All puppies whether pet or show potential should be sold with a written contract.

8. What does the breeder feed the puppies? You want to try and keep the puppies on the same brand of food. If the breeder uses something you do not, gradually wean the puppy to your preferred brand.

9. What inoculations have been given? Eight-week-old puppies should have had their first set of inoculations and you should be given documentation of this. If not, go elsewhere. If the puppies have no boosters prior to leaving the dam, look elsewhere.

10. Can you get references of previous puppy buyers? If the breeder will not give them, go elsewhere.

11. Can you have your own vet examine the puppy before you fully commit? You may be asked to put down a deposit but you should have the option of having your vet examine the puppy with in a couple days after purchase (always a good idea to have this done and the breeder may require it).

12. Are you active in any breed clubs (all breed or ideally breed specialty)? Many clubs have a breeder code of ethics that they want their members to adhere to. Just being AKC registered is not a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. It just means the puppy was from registered parents and the breeder has taken the steps to begin the registration process for the puppies. Even pet stores can sell AKC registered pups if the miller registers the dogs. The AKC cannot police everyone professing to be a breeder so again, being and educated consumer is very important.

Use your gut instinct and do not get suckered by cute faces or sob stories. Remember, this pup will be yours for the next ten years or much longer depending on breed. You should get the best possible puppy possible from the most responsible source you can find should you go the breeder route.
great post. i seriously made me decide not to breed my baby Chico. quick question. my Chico is 2 1/2 and he humps anything and everything in sight. people, couches, my front door that he has figured out how to pry open waiting on me to come home from work. just as i finished typing the prior sentence i found the answer to my own question - neuter. will this solve the humping crisis? thanks
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
 

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great post. i seriously made me decide not to breed my baby Chico. quick question. my Chico is 2 1/2 and he humps anything and everything in sight. people, couches, my front door that he has figured out how to pry open waiting on me to come home from work. just as i finished typing the prior sentence i found the answer to my own question - neuter. will this solve the humping crisis? thanks
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Old 08-03-2009, 11:06 AM   #20 (permalink)
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great post. i seriously made me decide not to breed my baby Chico. quick question. my Chico is 2 1/2 and he humps anything and everything in sight. people, couches, my front door that he has figured out how to pry open waiting on me to come home from work. just as i finished typing the prior sentence i found the answer to my own question - neuter. will this solve the humping crisis? thanks
No, neutering won't help this issue only because this is a dominance thing he is expressing towards you and other people. Try NILF... it worked wonders for me.
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Old 11-15-2009, 03:42 AM   #21 (permalink)
 

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WOW !!! i am speachless, sadieblues i could feel the love and compassion for dogs and hatered and disgust for "byb" coming right out of screen, very intense !

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Old 11-17-2009, 07:59 AM   #22 (permalink)
 

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that was a great post realy was i am new and have some freinds that have been doing it for a while to hlep make the best dog they can and that still was awsome to read i am a little tired after reading all of it but i think any person even thinking about breeding dogs should have to read every word of that
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Old 06-26-2010, 04:06 AM   #23 (permalink)
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thank you very much for going through the trouble of composing this thread; absolutely invaluable information.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
 

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My Opinion

To me you sound like Obama telling me why I need to pay more taxes and spread the wealth around. Telling people they have no right to do something sounds very communist! And if it werent for your back yard breeders (& the old dog fighters of the past) you would not have the breed that you say you love so much! I joined this so I could keep a track of this BSL crap and read some opinions on the greatest AMERICAN Breed ever developed. But after reading this persons opinion I am ashamed to say I signed up for it. They sure throw alot of blame around and I was always warned of people who put the blame on others! MAYBE WE SHOULD NEUTER YOU SO THAT YOU CANT BREED! And you mentioned the AKC alot and they dont even reconize the APBT as a breed! But oh well, you seem to know EVERYTHING that is best for the breed so I guess I will shut up now.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:32 PM   #25 (permalink)
 

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you wouldn't need to keep up with the bsl crap if there weren't so many byb to begin with
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
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you wouldn't need to keep up with the bsl crap if there weren't so many byb to begin with
Very true. But I don't think the breeder can always be blamed. A crappy owner is just as much to be blamed as the breeder if not more.
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Old 04-14-2011, 01:35 AM   #27 (permalink)
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To me you sound like Obama telling me why I need to pay more taxes and spread the wealth around. Telling people they have no right to do something sounds very communist! And if it werent for your back yard breeders (& the old dog fighters of the past) you would not have the breed that you say you love so much! I joined this so I could keep a track of this BSL crap and read some opinions on the greatest AMERICAN Breed ever developed. But after reading this persons opinion I am ashamed to say I signed up for it. They sure throw alot of blame around and I was always warned of people who put the blame on others! MAYBE WE SHOULD NEUTER YOU SO THAT YOU CANT BREED! And you mentioned the AKC alot and they dont even reconize the APBT as a breed! But oh well, you seem to know EVERYTHING that is best for the breed so I guess I will shut up now.
WOW! Are you angry? I agree with you to a point because I think we are also turning into a communist country. BUT on the other hand did you miss the part that states that about 1 million dogs get put to sleep every month because there are not enough homes?? Pit bulls are one of the most hardest breeds to find homes for. Spaying and neutering is the only thing that can help solve this problem! Unfortunately alot of people who choose to own this great breed are IGNORANT and will chop dogs ears off for looks but won't dare pay the extra money needed for spay and neutering them. Not all people should reproduce and neither should all dogs. And yes, most people here know more than the average pit owner because they work there dogs or show them and they health test before breeding. So they do know whats best for the breed. And then there are the responsible "pet" owners like myself..........But hey WELCOME to GP
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Old 04-14-2011, 12:58 PM   #28 (permalink)
 

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you wouldn't need to keep up with the bsl crap if there weren't so many byb to begin with
I blame BSL on one thing: Liberals! BSL is nothing more than a liberal agenda and another way of taking away freedom from the average US citizen. Read up on and really pay attention to what your reading and its ALL POLITICS! And they use fear as a means of pushing it! It started in your liberal states and now its moving across our country. Morgan City, LA for example. And its not BYB causing it! Its gang bangers & rednecks who care nothing for breed but think their creating some ultimate fight dog by mixing it with other bully breeds. And cops & animal control & our lovely media who have NO idea what kind of dog their collecting and reporting on! Most are mutts & look nothing like a pit bull! But boy does that name get the attention of most people so thats what they use to sale papers & get attention to their stories! Then of course you have these owners who have these toy breeds and think they can do no wrong. They halfa?? train these dogs then when they start something they have no chance of finishing its the other dogs fault. I also own a dashound & australian cattle dog. Example: We were at the dog park and this older woman (in her 50's) had some type of dog that looked alot like a St. Bernard. Soon as we got in the park and let my ACD off his leash that dog had him pinned by the throat. When we got him off of my dog (who by no means is a fighter) he would not leave him alone. I put mine back on his leash and we walked the park. The whole time this dog would not go away and constantly after mine. The lady obvisously could not control her dog but the whole time was blaming mine. She would never leash her dog and even suggested maybe we should come back another time. Of course we left. I was getting very angry & my wife is very persistant. As I was loading up my pit and cattle dog, my wife was coming with our dashound. This lady stopped her and commenced to telling her how we need to train ours better and maybe we should leave our cattle dog at cause theres just something about him she said. (My pit is just 4 months by the way). These are the kind of people who in my opinion are the problem and supporters of BSL. And to answer the lady who chimed in: YES, I am very angry about all this! But I do not blame byb for this or for hurting the breed. Most I know truly love their dogs & the breed and our quite selective of how they breed.
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Old 04-14-2011, 02:21 PM   #29 (permalink)
 
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Oh geeze, I haven't read a lot of this. But I'm not so sure about all this liberal stuff. I don't ask everyone who says "Oh...you have a pitbull...??" what political party they're from...in fact I know that my aunt who always gives me bs about them is VERYY conservative.

I think the OP was a very good one, even breeders who have good intentions can produce the wrong type of dog, and after that, in my opinion it depends A Lot on the owner. From experience.

Loki is my first pitbull and I got him from a shelter where he was rescued at 5 weeks and then kept isolated just because he was so young. He's my first dog over 20lbs, and he was my first puppy in a long long time. Mistake on my part, probably. I wasn't sure how to handle the breed, and now I have a 1 year old APBT that is nervous and he's skittish around people. The difference is that I can't wait to get him to a good trainer once school is out and learn what I'm doing wrong and how I can fix it. (in a month or so we'll have time and can afford it.) I'm far from perfect but I took this dog in, I love him to death, and there's no way in h*ll I'm giving up on him.

I'm just saying, It takes responsible breeding + responsible ownership to help the reputation of a breed.
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Old 04-14-2011, 02:34 PM   #30 (permalink)
 

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[QUOTE=tommy500us;422640] And its not BYB causing it! Its gang bangers & rednecks who care nothing for breed but think their creating some ultimate fight dog by mixing it with other bully breeds.QUOTE]

What do you think byb is?It's any kind of breeding that should not be done.It doesn't matter how much they love their dogs or not.If they are not doing things like some kind of sport or work with their dogs and exceling at it or heck even showing them then they don't need to be bred. What is the purpose of taking 2 pet quality dogs and breeding them together?Not a darn thing besides making more pet quality dogs.If someone wants a pet,go to a shelter.
BYB is the problem because you have all these yahoos thinking they have pretty dogs that would make pretty puppies that they could then sell.They do not care about temperment or anything else.So what happens when you have all these dogs being bred for nothing?You need to find homes for them.And sometimes you may go with a home that may be less than suitable just to get rid of it.Well then they are not properly caring for the dog and then they probably decide to then breed it to make money.Then the cycle goes on and on.If byb was not a huge part of our breeds problem then there wouldn't be so many of them in shelters.
I could go on and on but I don't think it's even worth it.And frankly I don't feel like arguing with you.And blaming the liberals is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.And I'm a republican.
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