Originally Posted by Rock Creek Kennels
Never saw your post concerning this. You may have to repost it.
Originally Posted by Rock Creek Kennels View Post
A dog doesnt have to be highly inbred to be part of a bloodline. Inbreeding, when done right, (and not overdone) will bring out and amplify valued traits. Thats part of the way you keep and bring out the traits you want.
BYB = posts above.
A few personal questions if you dont mind. Do you have dogs? If so what blood? Do you breed them? If so for what purpose?
Hello Rock Creek
In regards to inbreeding I understand this side of the opinion. I also understand I think its root and reasoning. I respect people's decisions in the breeding process but think science outweighs this theory and shows that inbreeding any closer than the 3rd generation can have detrimental effect on offspring.
If inbreeding alone was eliminated this would create the single greatest positive impact on all pure breeds overall health and its advancement as a pure breed. Almost if not all pure breeds greatest health hurdles are those that are the result of inbreeding. No intent to offend.
Theoretically sometimes there are situations where there may be so few within a population that inbreeding is an absolute essential in order to keep it alive. I do not think this is the case for Pit Bulls.
I understand the science behind genetic advancement and believe that every trait you are looking for can be found in a non-related mate. Does it require a little more work? Absolutely.
I understand many may take this as a
. Please do not be offended as although I do not agree with inbreeding I am not offended by those who choose to do it. Personally if I bred I would just not choose to inbreed any sooner than generation 4 where scientifically inbreeding shows it looses its effect. For those who choose to inbreed (line-breed) I hope you honestly follow your theory of genetic improvement and cull all those offspring that have health issues. I could not bring myself to do this so therefore inbreeding creates to much of a personal moral conflict.
How I would personally handle a breeding situation is by reviewing the parents pedigrees if possible. I would take the dog plus the next three generations to equal a total of 15 potential dogs. I would subtract out any matches to determine genetic risk and if I have more than 3 matches (20%) I would not consider it a viable alternative for breeding. This as you may guess also plays havoc somewhat on the whole bloodline thing. I have over 30 years experience in the breed and have never really followed bloodline mostly due to its often conflict with inbreeding. But even more so due to its misuse among proclaimed enthusiasts and lack of understanding by the general Pit Bull community.
To everyone that legitimately follows true bloodline I wish to say I have great respect for what you do and think it will be detrimental to developing an accurate history on the breed as it moves forward in history.
From proclaimed enthusiasts of bloodlines I would appreciate as comprehensive a list as possible on true bloodlines, any known history and any known documentation. I would love to learn more on the issues of bloodlines by those who do know.
Interestingly enough my position does not totally kill the theory of bloodline. If you have a larger pedigree and you are daring enough try my equation on a 6 or 7 generation pedigree see what you get. Although I think this high of a standard is unnecessary for breeding I do think it will highlight true root bloodlines.
A the time I first posted I was new and still learning my way around. I have now read many posts here and agree with much that is said. I ask about BYB also because I see it as a vague term. I also see it as a term that has been perpetuated by many in the so called "humane industry" in order to devalue all breeders regardless of that breeders ethics, quality or breeding style. I think PETA fits very nicely as an example.
I think this vagueness on BYB terminology leads to confusion and this fragments the Pit Bull community unnecessarily. I think for a term that is thrown around so much now in the breeding community I would like to see them come together and create a definitive checklist of what this means. Why must it remain vague? Why must it be hard to quantify? If the breeding community does not step up and own this issue the "humane industry" will and not all are Pit Bull friendly.
In regards to personal questions. No dogs now. Well a Shih Tzu but that is hardly worth counting. I lost my last Pit a year ago and plan to spend a considerable time in Australia in the next couple of years after my children graduate. Australia does not allow Pit Bull imports and to take on a Pit and not not have confidence of where it will be in 5-15 years I personally did not think would be responsible. I am a fanatic about the breed and once in Australia will pick up stock there for my continued fancy.
In regards to breeding I would apply the standard I mentioned above and would actually love to see a healthy root bloodline on the 5+ generation level. Due to the closed population there however this may be impossible and who knows I may have to actually resort to the scenario of inbreeding if the population is actually that small. Some Aussies out there should chime in now. What kind of lines do you have there and what do their peds look like?
As for breeding purpose. If I were to breed all the following would apply:
Love of the breed and the desire to see it continue. And to also see this love manifested in others and watch them become breed enthusiasts as well.
To meet demand of the current market. Breeding without consideration for demand I think is one of the things I would place highest on the BYB checklist.
If I could make some money on it that would be nice too, but not really a make or break. I however favor capitalism and do not look at those who can find profit in what they love as evil.
To genetically improve not just my stock but the entire breed. Genetic research on pets is but in its infancy but will play a major role over time as the research process continues to become both better and more economical.
Well that was not what I wrote but instead of trying to dig it up I thought I would just throw my current thoughts down.