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Old 06-05-2009, 05:28 PM   #46 (permalink)
 

kstr0h is a jewel in the roughkstr0h is a jewel in the rough
byb isnt always a bad thing, like everyone always makes it out to be
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:47 PM   #47 (permalink)
 

los44 reputation is over the moonlos44 reputation is over the moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Creek Kennels View Post
No, in my opinion I believe that a bloodline has more to do with who bred the dog, not who owns it. I also believe that the specific traits that are typically attached to a bloodline are also part of that bloodline.





I'm talking about any style of breeding used by a breeder for a number of generations to achieve & create the what they want in their line.





It doesnt really matter to me what the dictionary from 1896 says. I typically try to listen to men who have worked with this breed longer than i've been alive.




Just like all dogs are mixes of other breeds but become purebred after so many generations.




Alot of people still value dogs for their traits. Thats why we have different bloodlines.



No, it doesnt. If you look back I mentioned that even the dogs on the pedigree that didnt carry the Colby name, were still produced from Colby dogs.




Sure, but what if hes breeding to a dog from a different line that has a trait that he values highly? Or if his line is lacking a trait that he feels a pure Colby dog will bring? Thats the way to improve and thats what its all really about anyway.
HELL OF A RCK i think you are after my heart, lol
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:50 PM   #48 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kstr0h View Post
byb isnt always a bad thing, like everyone always makes it out to be
there are the exceptions but they are far and between, for the most part byb's are no good for any breed. just my opinion
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:50 PM   #49 (permalink)
 

Jenna23 is a jewel in the roughJenna23 is a jewel in the roughJenna23 is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstr0h View Post
byb isnt always a bad thing, like everyone always makes it out to be
I love my little byb dog, although I do understand now the importance of bl's and pedigrees.

And I agree with you as well los44, I don't condone it, but at the same time I'm glad I rescued kaiser, faulty temperament or not. I will do things different second go around

I also agree with you RCK is the wo/man (doesn't know lol) extremely knowledgeable
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
 
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Good dogs are where you find them. But supporting poor breeding practices is never good for the karma. Or the breed.
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Old 06-07-2009, 02:57 AM   #51 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by Rock Creek Kennels View Post
A dog doesnt have to be highly inbred to be part of a bloodline. Inbreeding, when done right, (and not overdone) will bring out and amplify valued traits. Thats part of the way you keep and bring out the traits you want.






BYB = posts above.


A few personal questions if you dont mind. Do you have dogs? If so what blood? Do you breed them? If so for what purpose?
Hello Rock Creek

I did respond to this post but do not see it. Still new so maybe it was in another section. If you did not receive it or would like a re-post let me know and I will be happy to.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:49 PM   #52 (permalink)
 
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Rock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moon
Rock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moon
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Originally Posted by pitbullfanatic View Post
Hello Rock Creek

I did respond to this post but do not see it. Still new so maybe it was in another section. If you did not receive it or would like a re-post let me know and I will be happy to.

Never saw your post concerning this. You may have to repost it.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:53 PM   #53 (permalink)
 
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Rock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moonRock Creek Kennels reputation is over the moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenna23 View Post
I love my little byb dog, although I do understand now the importance of bl's and pedigrees.

And I agree with you as well los44, I don't condone it, but at the same time I'm glad I rescued kaiser, faulty temperament or not. I will do things different second go around

You live and you learn! If you got a dog you're happy with, and they are happy with you, thats all that really matters!

Quote:
I also agree with you RCK is the man extremely knowledgeable
I corrected it for you! Thanks alot for the compliment. I still learn new things everyday. If it wasnt for my girlfriend and all of our "dog friends" teaching me through the years, I wouldnt know half of what I do today.
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Last edited by Rock Creek Kennels; 06-08-2009 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:58 PM   #54 (permalink)
 

Jenna23 is a jewel in the roughJenna23 is a jewel in the roughJenna23 is a jewel in the rough
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Originally Posted by Rock Creek Kennels View Post
You live and you learn! If you got a dog you're happy with, and they are happy with you, thats all that really matters!

Yeah we lub each other lol. He's my little sidekick (my four legged shadow). You're very welcome.

Well said bahamutt99
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Old 06-10-2009, 12:57 PM   #55 (permalink)
 

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Just my take on bloodlines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Creek Kennels View Post
Never saw your post concerning this. You may have to repost it.

Originally Posted by Rock Creek Kennels View Post
A dog doesnt have to be highly inbred to be part of a bloodline. Inbreeding, when done right, (and not overdone) will bring out and amplify valued traits. Thats part of the way you keep and bring out the traits you want.

BYB = posts above.

A few personal questions if you dont mind. Do you have dogs? If so what blood? Do you breed them? If so for what purpose?
Hello Rock Creek
In regards to inbreeding I understand this side of the opinion. I also understand I think its root and reasoning. I respect people's decisions in the breeding process but think science outweighs this theory and shows that inbreeding any closer than the 3rd generation can have detrimental effect on offspring.

If inbreeding alone was eliminated this would create the single greatest positive impact on all pure breeds overall health and its advancement as a pure breed. Almost if not all pure breeds greatest health hurdles are those that are the result of inbreeding. No intent to offend.

Theoretically sometimes there are situations where there may be so few within a population that inbreeding is an absolute essential in order to keep it alive. I do not think this is the case for Pit Bulls.

I understand the science behind genetic advancement and believe that every trait you are looking for can be found in a non-related mate. Does it require a little more work? Absolutely.

I understand many may take this as a . Please do not be offended as although I do not agree with inbreeding I am not offended by those who choose to do it. Personally if I bred I would just not choose to inbreed any sooner than generation 4 where scientifically inbreeding shows it looses its effect. For those who choose to inbreed (line-breed) I hope you honestly follow your theory of genetic improvement and cull all those offspring that have health issues. I could not bring myself to do this so therefore inbreeding creates to much of a personal moral conflict.

How I would personally handle a breeding situation is by reviewing the parents pedigrees if possible. I would take the dog plus the next three generations to equal a total of 15 potential dogs. I would subtract out any matches to determine genetic risk and if I have more than 3 matches (20%) I would not consider it a viable alternative for breeding. This as you may guess also plays havoc somewhat on the whole bloodline thing. I have over 30 years experience in the breed and have never really followed bloodline mostly due to its often conflict with inbreeding. But even more so due to its misuse among proclaimed enthusiasts and lack of understanding by the general Pit Bull community.

To everyone that legitimately follows true bloodline I wish to say I have great respect for what you do and think it will be detrimental to developing an accurate history on the breed as it moves forward in history.

From proclaimed enthusiasts of bloodlines I would appreciate as comprehensive a list as possible on true bloodlines, any known history and any known documentation. I would love to learn more on the issues of bloodlines by those who do know.

Interestingly enough my position does not totally kill the theory of bloodline. If you have a larger pedigree and you are daring enough try my equation on a 6 or 7 generation pedigree see what you get. Although I think this high of a standard is unnecessary for breeding I do think it will highlight true root bloodlines.

A the time I first posted I was new and still learning my way around. I have now read many posts here and agree with much that is said. I ask about BYB also because I see it as a vague term. I also see it as a term that has been perpetuated by many in the so called "humane industry" in order to devalue all breeders regardless of that breeders ethics, quality or breeding style. I think PETA fits very nicely as an example.

I think this vagueness on BYB terminology leads to confusion and this fragments the Pit Bull community unnecessarily. I think for a term that is thrown around so much now in the breeding community I would like to see them come together and create a definitive checklist of what this means. Why must it remain vague? Why must it be hard to quantify? If the breeding community does not step up and own this issue the "humane industry" will and not all are Pit Bull friendly.

In regards to personal questions. No dogs now. Well a Shih Tzu but that is hardly worth counting. I lost my last Pit a year ago and plan to spend a considerable time in Australia in the next couple of years after my children graduate. Australia does not allow Pit Bull imports and to take on a Pit and not not have confidence of where it will be in 5-15 years I personally did not think would be responsible. I am a fanatic about the breed and once in Australia will pick up stock there for my continued fancy.

In regards to breeding I would apply the standard I mentioned above and would actually love to see a healthy root bloodline on the 5+ generation level. Due to the closed population there however this may be impossible and who knows I may have to actually resort to the scenario of inbreeding if the population is actually that small. Some Aussies out there should chime in now. What kind of lines do you have there and what do their peds look like?

As for breeding purpose. If I were to breed all the following would apply:

Love of the breed and the desire to see it continue. And to also see this love manifested in others and watch them become breed enthusiasts as well.

To meet demand of the current market. Breeding without consideration for demand I think is one of the things I would place highest on the BYB checklist.

If I could make some money on it that would be nice too, but not really a make or break. I however favor capitalism and do not look at those who can find profit in what they love as evil.

To genetically improve not just my stock but the entire breed. Genetic research on pets is but in its infancy but will play a major role over time as the research process continues to become both better and more economical.

Well that was not what I wrote but instead of trying to dig it up I thought I would just throw my current thoughts down.
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:04 PM   #56 (permalink)
 

shortbedder is a jewel in the roughshortbedder is a jewel in the roughshortbedder is a jewel in the rough
Well writen, that being said, please continue to study as there are huge gaps in your understanding of inbreeding. Get as close as you can to some real pitbull breeders when in Australia, I'm sure they have some. Maybe even some Irish Staffs, the princibles will be the same. In doing your field work you may be able to advance the breed.
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Old 08-15-2013, 05:10 PM   #57 (permalink)
 

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ADBA papers dont include the bloodline. If you have a subscription to some pedigree webpages, they may or may not have the pedigree. (Not every dog that is registered has a pedigree online, its up to the owner of that dog to post a pedigree if they wish.) Or if you dont have a subscription you could post the sire and dam's names and someone with a membership to a pedigree page could look it up for you (or try), you just might have to be patient to get results.
Hi my dog has Adba paper does that mean he's already registered so If I breed him I can register the pips. Sorry this is first time owning a bully with papers. On the back the breeder signed it. Please tell what to do so when I breed him with another papered bully ill know what I Ned to do. And how much it cost please email me. [email]

Last edited by Odin`s_BlueDragon; 08-15-2013 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:09 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Well first of all.... ADBA dogs are not generally "bullies" You may want to do some more homework before you decide to breed dogs.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:22 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Second. This thread is OLD! Like 4 years old. I'll get better answers if u start a new thread.

Third. I wouldn't post my email on open forums, good way to get spam. I fixed it for u.

fourth. Do us all a favor and just don't breed ur dog. Or at least get a real good and deep knowledge of ur dog and why u shouldn't breed him...
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:24 PM   #60 (permalink)
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to think that jeep is not a bloodline, you dont have a clue what your talkin about,

bloodlines can be created at any time,
jeep offspring produced offspring that produced winners and they produced offspring that produced winners and that blood is still doing well today,

so its held up for over 30yrs now,
what does it take to be considered a bloodline?????????????

plus, you omly need to get the 4 generation pedigree on your dog, because if yuou think your getting an apbt, and you cant find a dog in the first 4 gen, on the internet.

you dont have an apbt.

you thought i was kiddin??????????
i dont care how old it is, i just like talkin dogs...........................

Last edited by surfer; 08-15-2013 at 10:27 PM.
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