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Old 08-14-2010, 12:31 AM   #16 (permalink)
 

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Thanks everyone for the help I appreciate it. Performance yes he is just my pet he will not be bred. Thats cool with me, so in reality is most amstaff huh. who woulda thought. Thanks again
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Old 08-14-2010, 12:35 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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What ever he is he is handsome and yes when ppl ask what he is I think it is fair to say Amstaff or pitterstaff
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Old 08-14-2010, 12:51 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Good post Lisa, except for the part where you say you don't know if Gotti was a bully himself. Yes, he was the original bully, and from pictures alone, anyone can see that.
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [68594] :: NOTORIOUS JUAN GOTTY

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One dog in the ped has mostly gaff blood in the dog and those dogs are pitterstaffs, meaning they are APBT and AST mixes. Then you have the other dog who is bred off of juan gotty and there is some debate about that dog, I don;t know if I believe gotty is a bully himself but I think he was bred to many bully bitches that created the big bully dogs we see and a lot of paper hanging went on. gotty's ped it's self may be true so now that I look at the pd more closely he might have be as much bully as I thought. That dog he was bred to PR GOTTYLINE'S SHEBA may be a bully but there are no pictures and i am not familiar enough with that dog to say one way or the other.

If you look at those peds they are covered in AST's or american staffordshire terriers so that is mostly what your dog is and possible some bully but having the other peds would really help since you dog looks more bully/AST than anything else.

Oh and I hope you dog is just a pet and you do not plan on breeding him, if you do want to breed him you are going to have to do a bunch of health tests because many of these dogs in the lines have known health issues. Get the dos heart checked by cardiologist and get an Ataxia test done.
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Old 08-14-2010, 03:56 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
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He was a big dog but looks like many of gaff dogs you see now, Again IMO I don't know if I would call him a bully but when he started to be bred to every dog out there you saw the bullies start to rise. That is JMO, you of course can call him a bully and this is your op. I have seen dogs bred off him that were completely normal and nice looking dogs when bred to other pitterstaffs or normal dogs. Then you look at some of the obvious bullies he was bred to and they took a whole another direction.
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:20 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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I don't think Juan Gotti is a bully I have seen pics of him where he looks completely normal. Holly has some.
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Old 08-14-2010, 07:46 AM   #21 (permalink)
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IMO, and many other people, Juan gotti is a ambully. He has the traditional ambully front(extremely out at the elbows, low to the ground) and typical lack of underjaw and big head of a bully. I think the mixxing in of bulldog or even mastiff, probably came from the chaingang stuff, as they are pretty disreputable. Plus juan gotti is famous for being the origianl bull, as he accomplished nothing else and his pedigree is very unimpressive.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...&dog_id=310197

Lisa, this is what you said before on the Leerburg board about bullies and gotti:
You know how they breed to get that look?
They use english and American Bulldogs. Razor's edge and Ghotti dogs are mixed but they "paper hang" and call them APBT's. It's really sad to see. They have been open about breeding this way and it will be interesting to see what the UKC/ADBA does. They are talking about making it a new breed, American Bully's. It's sad to see what they will do for money!

Have you changed you mind because Dixie, tempest, hurricaine, and typhoon all have Juan Gotti in them?

Last edited by Bethb2007; 08-14-2010 at 07:49 AM. Reason: added link
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:01 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Oops, here is the link to leerburg, so people can read it themselves, in case I copy pasted wrong>
Leerburg.com Discussion Forum: I hate those Stupid Bully dogs!!!!!!!!!

I must say I agree completely with all of lisa's post on this leerburg post link!She says all the stuff people are afriad to say because it may offend someone.
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:07 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Here is a better pic of the Nortorious Juan Gotty or Gotti
http://cdn.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs...res/594919.jpg
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:13 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It sounds like he may be Am bully after all with gotty line, Butthen why does my UKC papers clearly say American Pit Bull Terrier?
Excellent question! IMO they have more respect for $ than the APBT. I'd urge you to ask the UKC that question directly and bring the answer back here. Lots of people would love to understand this.
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:25 AM   #25 (permalink)
 
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Exactly I use to think that till I did a little more research on his ped and dogs he was being bred to and I have changes my op. I know what I said on that thread but again after doing some research on my own I do not feel the same way. I still think a lot of dogs he was bred to were crap and you got dogs that were horribly bully and ya just know paper hanging was going on all over but the dog that started it all.... I don't know. Now will anyone one know for sure with all the hanging going on? no but that is just how I feel about him. Again I do think the bully started with him and what he was being bred to and all the hanging but Gotty himself was not that overdone. If anything AST not so much bully, some of those gaff dogs look wose that gotty himself.
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:33 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Pictures can be very deceiving especially when a dog is over fed and in terrible condition. Gotty was infact ( well IMO) an Amstaff and not a bully regardless of the reputation that was made due to his owners wanting to bank on the image of a huge dog. Gotty is not different than any Gaff dog in bone structure and happened to be bred to many many Bully female to create a bully line.However when bred to a quality female he produced some excellent UKC style dogs.
Gotty himself before the idea of the bully fad took off


If I wanted to promote my dogs as American Bullies I could show off pictures that where bad angles or posture and misrepresentations of what my dogs look like like this one.


Or I could use a photo from the same day that looks like this and say APBT



Now its anyone opinion on what my dogs are but it the point of how photos and posture can very much misrepresent a dog as well as if the dog is lacking in conditioning or even overweight.
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:41 AM   #27 (permalink)
 
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Thanks Holly that was my point and I was looking for a better picture of him. he was bred what over a 100 times or something? some where nice correct dogs and others were bully and some I am sure were paper hung, even given how big he was you see some the mastiff mixes that ar obvious and those to not come out in one generation..... Some of the breeding were obvious where they went wrong. They took a decent big amstaff type dog and bred the crud out of him and to everything to make money and make bigger dogs. IMO that is where the bully started.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:06 PM   #28 (permalink)
 

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Gotti's sire was Raider II and his sire was said to be half mastiff...However Raider II lokks pretty amstaff to me IMO and greyline its self was known to have big dogs even back then...if the ped says 90% pitterstaff I'd say its pitterstaff or amstaff, JMO....
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:27 PM   #29 (permalink)
 

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I found a couple more pics of my dogs pedigree. These are his I guess great grandparents. Big Block's Shnoka's Mr. Riggs ad Shnoka's Blue Girl Dew. Mr riggs looks awfully bully to me. What do you guys think. My dog Nitro just turned one, but honestly his thickness is nowhere near the dogs in his pedigree. When should I expect him to start filling out like his ancestors.
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