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Old 12-07-2010, 04:02 PM   #151 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by Firehazard View Post
Unless its an educated person *PROFESSIONAL* JMO then you should not be attempting this at home.. LOL Not everyone has the education and the time let alone the accountability of trainging HA APBTs.
You can breed and harbor mental traits and mental disorders as well such as AGGRESSION...
very well put but I think I would go a step further and say that any training should be done by a well educated person bc many activities such as weight pull and obstical corses( darn cant think right now) done improprely could cause serious damage to the animal. education is the key word here
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Old 12-12-2010, 04:51 PM   #152 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Alitlebit_ofJACK View Post
jmo and I'm not very familiar with the sport but I think a excessive ha dog wouldnt be good and since the apbt was breed not to be ha would be an advantage at lease on the aspect of stoping the attack I guess you could call it. Ive seen many vids of police dogs not immediatly(sp) stopping and to me this is one cause the dog is over excited by the attack or ha. And either way the dog should be fallowing comands shouldnt they? rather than deciding them selves weather to attck. but yes non educated people should never participate with anything dangerous wether that be shooting, fighting or teaching dogs bite work
This is the key no HA dog should be doing any type of protection sport no matter what breed they are. Not even Police dogs are HA, there is a difference between HA and willingness to bite. Granted many police dogs can be sharp and have high aggression, HA is not what drives them. Dogs with HA are not allowed to train with our club. We have kids walking all over and a ton of people that come to watch. We cannot take the risk someone will get bit.

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THE APBT is a catch and [] match dog; its game bred to be able to endure any amount of pain and still pursue victory....... No dog that can fight for 3hrs should be HA or promoted to be through training. < I mean some laymen who want a guard dog)

Lisa and her Kennel have a good program inwhich as she says she is excercising her dogs intelligence and athleticism, its a game to them.. because APBTs are NOT HA.. Hooch failed his first two trials for similar actions, just wouldnt grab the perp in the suit, Hooch was all paws, like quit playin.. ANYWAY


Unless its an educated person *PROFESSIONAL* JMO then you should not be attempting this at home.. LOL Not everyone has the education and the time let alone the accountability of trainging HA APBTs. TO offer proof, this discussion has come up before and I posted some XL bully breeders who specialize in MANSTOPPERS and their dogs are heavy HA. HOWEVER these selectively bred game/working lines that PK has with a lil show line here or there is NOTHING like it, great dogs, great trainer.

Once tribes breed wolves the FIRST litter RAISED by MAN are DOGS!<<<<<<<<<<< Laika means dog that barks for instance, Chukchi are working dogs, but to the WEST working wolf dogs, because they are wolf dogs... still wolf in the eyes of western politics.

You can breed and harbor mental traits and mental disorders as well such as AGGRESSION...
example: HA dogs .......... MANY more to POST... Lisa @ PK is a one of kind JMO. In general the APBT should not be used for or bred for GUARD work. LEADS TO THESE..
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I do not breed dogs for guard work instead I look for drive. I also agree no matter what sport you do with your dog you should have experienced ppl to train with.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:56 AM   #153 (permalink)
 

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All gamebred bulldogs have a level of DA to them. Some go insane at the site of another dog while others will tolerate other dogs while not in a [] as long as they do not try to challenge them. Not sure about specific lines throwing specifically situationally aggressive bulldogs but Gambler's Virgil was great with other dogs and animals while not in the [] and heard that that was passed into his offspring
Are American Bullies not so Dog agressive???
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Old 04-09-2011, 04:20 AM   #154 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Alitlebit_ofJACK View Post
a better example would be of wanting something like a boxer will to fight may even like to but not trying to attack eveything.

if thats what you want why not just get a boxer then?
if u dont want DA dont get a APBT just saying
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:07 AM   #155 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Cindy1979 View Post
Are American Bullies not so Dog agressive???
generally speaking i wouldnt think bullies are as aggressive as a true APBT dog. a lot of bully breeders actually try to breed out DA in their stock.
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:01 AM   #156 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Firehazard View Post
Training APBTs for GUARD work or using them as K9s..

If you train two apbts for guard work, breed them together and raise the pups doing the same work ... THERE WILL BE A HA GENE POP UP....
i know im kind of late but i dont think human aggression is a gene... it'd be more of an instinct...

if it was there would be a whole mathmatical scientific theory that you would be able to follow to breed out HA or DA. by every thing you guys have just said theres still some degree of da in the pitbull there by making it an instinct.

A=agression c=cull

Agression being the dominant trait and cull ussually being the recessive
say you have a male thats agressive then it would be Aa or Ac
and a female that is cold Ca or CC i think thats how the
A c
A AA Ac

c Ac cc

so you would end up with 1 full aggressive dog, 2 half agressive dogs (Small possibility that being cold could be the dominant trait but not likely), and 1 full cold dog.

if it was genetic agression could be bred out by taking a full cull out of every litter and breeding them to create an animal carrying only cull genetics
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:08 AM   #157 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehazard View Post
You create a man aggressive gene... yes they do work like that, sociopaths for example are sometimes created from MANIPULATIVE parents who DO NOT SHOW their children LOVE.. This is also passed down from parent to child... LOL its psychology, yes Im going to Psych Lab this semester and shooting for my psych D.
its not genetic its taught and the more it becomes taught the more it becomes instinct i dont think instinct is a genetic while you cant teach instinct you cant breed it out either. and if you cant breed it out then its not a gene
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Old 06-10-2011, 05:26 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Instinct = genetic

Last edited by Celestial88; 06-10-2011 at 05:32 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:04 PM   #159 (permalink)
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DA in APBT's is INSTINCTIVE. Some dogs are mellow while others are not.
I know of breeders that must seperate the pups at 6 weeks or they'd kill each other.
Some dogs are fine with others as long as they are not provoked. Others never will be.

HA that is hereditary is a severe fault, and not to be tolerated, especially with all the attacks going on, and the BSL storming.
Training a dog for protection is not the same as training it for HA. It is a controlled "violence." Only well bred dogs can and should be trained in this.
IMO the APBT should not be trained for this, but that's just me.
When professionally trained, they are superb. But not every dog can do it.
But the first qualification should be a stable tempermant.
It should not be in naturally HA dogs.

Last edited by Eagle; 06-10-2011 at 06:05 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:45 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial88 View Post
Instinct = genetic
if instistinct was genetic you would be able to breed it out of any dog. i dont know of anyway or any one who can breed instinct out of a dog
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:13 PM   #161 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by stonerreakinhavok View Post
if instistinct was genetic you would be able to breed it out of any dog. i dont know of anyway or any one who can breed instinct out of a dog
You can only breed out a genetic trait by finding dog that lack the trait.
many showlines have worked for generations to reduce DA and have been greatly successful but a dog is a dog and any dog has a trigger that can be pushed. Its a short trip back to your roots.
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:45 PM   #162 (permalink)
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If it weren't, then how is it passed down through generation to generation of wild animals? They inherit it.

Which is
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the reception of genetic qualities by transmission from parent to offspring

http://www.sparknotes.com/biology/an...section4.rhtml

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Old 06-11-2011, 05:40 AM   #163 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stonerreakinhavok View Post
if instistinct was genetic you would be able to breed it out of any dog. i dont know of anyway or any one who can breed instinct out of a dog
I believe it can be lost in dogs. Look what happened to the AST, who was once the same breed. Different bloodlines carry various degree's of prey-drive. Some breeders will not sell their dogs to the public due to this. So, yes, dogs can lose instincts/genetics. Look at many of the breeds in the AKC. Their original use has been nearly lost.
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Old 06-11-2011, 02:59 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Dogs intinct cannot be manipulated through scientific breeding practices??? THEN HOW ARE THERE 1001 breeds down from wolves all with different intincts INBRED and OUTCROSSED in or out? I've been breeding sled dogs since .. since.. and wolves in rehabilitation in Okla then I got a bulldog in 2000 been active ever since.. THERE IS a HA gene! You can cull it out!

Like PK stated THE BEST POLICE AND TACTICAL DOGS ARE DOGs that HAVE HIGH BALL DRIVE SPECIFICALLY out of those BREEDS selected for such DUTIES. BECAUSE THEY ARENT LOOKING FOR DRUGS OR BOMBS.. THEY ARE LOOKING FOR THAT EFFIN BALL! The best police dogs are working APBTs that are bred for high end and are NOT HA. THEY HAVE TO BE TRAINED TO BE HA.. Check out some K9 training videos you can clearly see HA is natural for the Belgian Malinois >> LOL .. . dont give me that intincts can't be bred in or out..

The REAL APBT is supposed to NOT EVER SHOW TEETH or BRISTLED hair.. ITS SUPPOSED TO BE QUIET AND HIT LIKE A TON OF BRICKS! That came with BREEEDING those intincts in and CULLING the undesired OUT.

The CAPS arent YELLING.. IM stressing points; I gotta party to get the place ready for so Im out.. Ya'll better read on some genetics for about a year or two at least before you come telling me this or that; what I got is from book knowledge acquired with Life experience proving ALL THEM OLD MEN RIGHT.. all this science and the old timers had it right all along.
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Old 06-11-2011, 03:29 PM   #165 (permalink)
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Good one Firehazard...my cousin is a K-9 cop and do you know why a majority of police depts purchase a pup from small European countries? Because they are bred by old timers who have kept them in their "natural" form, not oversized and bred for this or that.
They are bred to be German Shepards.

Funny you pointed out the "NEVER SHOW TEETH or BRISTLED hair..." My 2 1/2 year old male has earned himself the nickname, "the Silent Assassin," because a neighbor once saw him staring at a big loose dog, and instead of barking at him, he backed up to give himself room for when the dog got into zone...he literally showed no intent, and was crouched low like a spring with his tail wagging....the rest is history. Just glad it was a year ago, and that dog had long hair.

Yes, it is through culling that HA is weeded out, as it should...and how many other factors are decided.
I can't say I trust science, since those bookworms and lab rats believe in evolution, and try and tell me I came from a monkey...but that's a topic for another board.
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