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Old 01-02-2011, 09:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
 

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Breeding 101

Saw this on another site GD.COM good read ..........


So many times I see people get on this board and ask, “how does this breeding look?” and “opinions on this breeding I just made” etc. There are also numerous posts regarding “what crosses best?” and “what’s the best bloodline?” “Is this breeding too tight?” And the list goes on and on. I hope that anyone who has ever asked one of these questions reads this.

First of all you have to ask yourself, “What’s the goal of this breeding?” If the answer is anything less than create dogs that compete and win at the highest level then you should not make the breeding! If you make a breeding based solely on: looks, mouth, air, ability, to preserve a “bloodline,” or even gameness, you should not make the breeding. If your brood stock has any of the above mentioned traits but does not have the ability to win, then don’t breed the dog. Why? Because our dogs were created to compete and win and anything less is a deviation from the breed standard. While some people may like certain “styles” or “traits” over others, the goal should be the same . . .to take home the blue ribbon!!!

If your “brood stock” has not shown the ability to WIN, then why breed? Why try to create more of what could not win in the first place? This is not to overlook the most valued trait we love about bulldogs, gameness. However, I have seen all to often people that make breedings with not a single win between the sire, dam, and grandparents (first 2 generations) or even worst, 3 or 4 generations only to claim that they were all “game.” What a load of bull. If they were just honest with themselves they’d admit that they would have been much better off breeding to ANY Champion then breeding to more winless dogs, regardless of bloodline.

Here is where many will want to jump in and say, “What about so-and-so, he or she was a cur/cold/untested dog and they still produced?!” We all have heard about the exceptions, but do you really want to base your time, money, and effort hoping to have the exception to the rule? Hoping to have yet another subpar dog out producing him or herself is a complete waste of time and resources 99% of the time, yet people will point to the 1% and use that as a reason to breed to something that not even the best dogman in the world could win with. When you really think about it, it’s completely STUPID!

So why is it so important to breed to winners? First of all you know breeding to a Gr. Ch. is not just breeding to the best dog on one person’s yard but he has proven him or herself to be the best over many competitors. He has accomplished the most important task of the breed, which is to compete and win over the competition. Secondly, history has shown us that most of the best producing dogs were first winners. That’s right, pick up an old book/magazine and see for yourself. Let’s take a look at the old SDJ’s R.O.M. list to drive this point home. The top 5 producing dogs on the R.O.M. list (regardless of what dog you really believe is #1) is: Ch. Jeep, Frisco, Gr. Ch. Mayday, Gr. Ch. Yellow and Gr. Ch. Buck. That means that 4 out of the 5 top producing males were not only winners but were titled dogs!

This is a good place to address another one of the BIGGEST myths in the dog game that says "inbred dogs produce better than outcrossed dogs." This is another load of BULL! Just look at the pedigrees of the above mentioned dogs

Ch. Jeep: a 50/50 cross at best. This is a dog that is a combination of a few different bloodlines, but we'll be nice and say 50/50 cross.

Frisco: Inbred, yes! Out of a father to daughter breeding but still 1/4 outcross via Bolio blood.

Gr. Ch. Mayday: A dog that was a 4-way cross between Redboy/Jocko/Bolio/Tombstone. Thats right, one of the greatest producers ever is not comprised of more than 25% of any one bloodline in only 2 damn generations!!!

Gr. Ch. Yellow: Another 50/50 cross!

Gr. Ch. Buck: A lot of controversy as to how he is really bred, but still at least a 50/50 combination.

What have we learned from this list? We learned that ALL of the top 5 producing dogs had at least 25% outcross and that most of them were at least 50% or more outcrossed!!! But what do these dogs all have in common? You guessed it, they're MOSTLY winners, coming down from mostly WINNERS! So what is more important, breeding to a bloodline or breeding to a GOOD dog? I believe history tells us that yes, there are exceptions, but the cream always rises to the top and if you want to produce winners, you better go breed to winning dogs!!!
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I enjoyed the read
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Very good reading thanks for posting Tara.



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Old 01-02-2011, 07:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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the pre-cursor to any breeding should be quality.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Good post Sadie
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Old 01-02-2011, 10:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Very good read.
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Old 01-02-2011, 11:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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I like this it is a good read.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Amen!!!! That was a real good look. Thanks for that info Sadie.
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Good read for what Im going thru lol Ill be honest....... anyway I have always wondered how bloodlines come about and since adba does not start lines how do they get certified by the adba? Thru another such as ukc? Which would mean the adba relies on others for dogs when I thought they we're supposed to be all about the APBT ? Also how can you take 2 dogs and end up with your own line? Say falin and jeep. They would be 50/50 but even after doing 4 generations with their pups it would still pretty much be inbred falin/jeep dogs that so and so calls his line "Freak" Which"Freak" would really still be products of falin/jeep. And it dont even have to be 50/50. Every dog is is always some other lines products if u look at it like that. Also ppl say the bully dogs like Gotti are mutts, which Ill agree cause most I see are pitiful lookin, but bc their is unknown's in the ped they say mutt.. Well why would adba allow it? Also have noticed it with famous lines like Falin, Colby and turpins etc. Sorry for poor grammar not on comp. Hope I made sense

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Old 01-10-2011, 08:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Good read for what Im going thru lol Ill be honest....... anyway I have always wondered how bloodlines come about and since adba does not start lines how do they get certified by the adba? Thru another such as ukc? Which would mean the adba relies on others for dogs when I thought they we're supposed to be all about the APBT ? Also how can you take 2 dogs and end up with your own line? Say falin and jeep. They would be 50/50 but even after doing 4 generations with their pups it would still pretty much be inbred falin/jeep dogs that so and so calls his line "Freak" Which would really still be products of falin/jeep. And it dont even have to be 50/50. Every dog is is always some other lines products if u look at it like that. Also ppl say the bully dogs like Gotti are mutts, which Ill agree cause most I see are pitiful lookin, but bc their is unknown's in the ped they say mutt.. Well why would adba allow it? Also have noticed it with famous lines like Falin, Coby and turpins etc. Sorry for poor grammar not on comp
First, I have never seen an ADBA registered Bully. All Bullies whose pedigrees I have studied are UKC with a few AKC dogs dating back to 30 yrs ago. I have never seen a Gotti dog with any ADBA registry in the ped. Second, before you start calling Am Bullies mutts because all of the ones you see are "pitiful" looking, I suggest you take yourself to a Bully show so you can see real American Bullies that are nice, clean, and conform to ABKC standard. I understand the controversy surrounding the American Bully, but in my opinion, they are not mutts as they are now an established breed.
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
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First, I have never seen an ADBA registered Bully. All Bullies whose pedigrees I have studied are UKC with a few AKC dogs dating back to 30 yrs ago. I have never seen a Gotti dog with any ADBA registry in the ped. Second, before you start calling Am Bullies mutts because all of the ones you see are "pitiful" looking, I suggest you take yourself to a Bully show so you can see real American Bullies that are nice, clean, and conform to ABKC standard. I understand the controversy surrounding the American Bully, but in my opinion, they are not mutts as they are now an established breed.
I agree when they are correct they look nice, but the majority Ive seen are way overdone. That is why I agreed on the mutt remark. The notorious Juan Gotty is very nice. But I believe not all bullies are bred with same breeds to come up with a specific bully is another reason they get labeled mutts. Hows the snow down there? Sittin at around 61/2 inches up in Dalton. Biggest since 93 I believe
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:10 AM   #12 (permalink)
 

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Old 01-10-2011, 05:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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First, I have never seen an ADBA registered Bully. All Bullies whose pedigrees I have studied are UKC with a few AKC dogs dating back to 30 yrs ago. I have never seen a Gotti dog with any ADBA registry in the ped. Second, before you start calling Am Bullies mutts because all of the ones you see are "pitiful" looking, I suggest you take yourself to a Bully show so you can see real American Bullies that are nice, clean, and conform to ABKC standard. I understand the controversy surrounding the American Bully, but in my opinion, they are not mutts as they are now an established breed.
My boy is ADBA registered. Most I see are ABKC/UKC but I see quite a few ADBA/ UKC dual registered. And I agree to a degree- as long as the breeder is ethical then they shouldnt be mutts. Sure, there were some mixing of breeds to get a new established breed. But they are ambullies now and have their own registry. To call them something that they are not is false advertising. But I have seen some clean pics you have posted online and they look nice. I prefer a more athletic dog and some of them have potential to be. Only problems I have are the obvious mixed ones or extremes. Those seem to definitely be mutts IMHO.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:14 AM   #14 (permalink)
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My boy is ADBA registered. Most I see are ABKC/UKC but I see quite a few ADBA/ UKC dual registered. And I agree to a degree- as long as the breeder is ethical then they shouldnt be mutts. Sure, there were some mixing of breeds to get a new established breed. But they are ambullies now and have their own registry. To call them something that they are not is false advertising. But I have seen some clean pics you have posted online and they look nice. I prefer a more athletic dog and some of them have potential to be. Only problems I have are the obvious mixed ones or extremes. Those seem to definitely be mutts IMHO.
Then I stand corrected about the ADBA thing. My bad! I have looked at hundreds of Bully peds online and I have yet to come across any ADBA registered bullies so thank you for letting me know. Not that I didn't think it wasn't possible I just have not seen any, well, that caught my eye at least. I absolutely agree that they should be called what they are: American Bullies. As for the the dogs that look like an American English Bulldog, well, you know where I stand on that. As for the extreme class, I have seen some really overdone ones, but I have seen some really nice and clean ones. Blackout, the dog in my avatar, is actually shown in the extreme class and won Best Extreme Male at Nationals.

Sorry for the hijack, Sadie!
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:23 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Then I stand corrected about the ADBA thing. My bad! I have looked at hundreds of Bully peds online and I have yet to come across any ADBA registered bullies so thank you for letting me know. Not that I didn't think it wasn't possible I just have not seen any, well, that caught my eye at least. I absolutely agree that they should be called what they are: American Bullies. As for the the dogs that look like an American English Bulldog, well, you know where I stand on that. As for the extreme class, I have seen some really overdone ones, but I have seen some really nice and clean ones. Blackout, the dog in my avatar, is actually shown in the extreme class and won Best Extreme Male at Nationals.

Sorry for the hijack, Sadie!
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I would say this- he's one handsome extreme if I remember correctly from your thread.
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