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-   -   is it pit or not?? (https://www.gopitbull.com/showthread.php?t=90090)

rocthebully 09-14-2013 10:26 PM

is it pit or not??
 
Ok guys I've been on this sight reading and learning and I was wondering, when they say an am.bully is not a" pit bull " is it because the am bully has no pit bull blood in it or because its been changed so much to create what is the am.bully today? Thnx

~Missy~ 09-14-2013 11:02 PM

American Bullies are not American Pit Bull Terriers. Pits, pit bulls are just short terms for American Pit Bull Terriers.

American Bullies originated as a cross between the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier but a lot of them today have other breeds mixed in as well.

DieselsMommie 09-14-2013 11:11 PM

Really? I never knew that's how they made the American bully.

What was the purpose of the cross between APBT & AmStaff? Since both breeds look so similar


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OldDog 09-14-2013 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Missy~ (Post 937554)
American Bullies are not American Pit Bull Terriers. Pits, pit bulls are just short terms for American Pit Bull Terriers.

American Bullies originated as a cross between the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier but a lot of them today have other breeds mixed in as well.



Wrong , and of course you will note that *ALL* AmStaffs and *ALL* APBTs will lead back to the exact same place and base dogs..

pookie! 09-14-2013 11:42 PM

To create a "bullier" style dog, they dont really look that similar but it was a cross between UKC and AKC dogs (with other breeds per what Wilson said), the first generations of the Razors Edge dogs looked like heavier boned AmStaff, because thats what they essentially were

Coyne1981 09-14-2013 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 937570)
Wrong , and of course you will note that *ALL* AmStaffs and *ALL* APBTs will lead back to the exact same place and base dogs..

Just curious about what part is "wrong"?

DieselsMommie 09-15-2013 12:09 AM

That's what I was wondering bc before they branched off....didn't they all originate from the same place?


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pookie! 09-15-2013 12:27 AM

Yea the UKC, AKC, ADBA etc all originated from the same pit dogs of old.

If you go back in the UKC or AKC dogs, they are all traced back to game dogs.

rocthebully 09-15-2013 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 937570)
Wrong , and of course you will note that *ALL* AmStaffs and *ALL* APBTs will lead back to the exact same place and base dogs..

Cause I was on bullypedia (don't know if there reliable? ) but i was looking at cbf mo money and went all the way back in his bloodline to 1900's and found some colby and other apbt lines and thought it was interesting.

rocthebully 09-15-2013 12:31 AM

Saw some pics of some bad a** old school apbt's

Coyne1981 09-15-2013 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocthebully (Post 937634)
Saw some pics of some bad a** old school apbt's

Yup. There is no doubt the american bully originated from APBT. The cross with AMSTAFF is what wilson claims and I dont doubt it. Its kind of tough as far as I know and at this point because the bully is a new breed. Im no expert, but the way I see it, if you see

NOTORIOUS JUAN GOTTY - Verified American Bully Pedigree Database

or

RAZOR'S EDGE PURPLE ROSE OF CAIRO - Verified American Bully Pedigree Database

in the last 2 generations, thats some good blood for the bully world.

DieselsMommie 09-15-2013 01:25 AM

I came across this petition in another forum(real old topic) when I was researching American bullies

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...1/#next_action




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Just Tap Pits 09-15-2013 01:38 AM

Remeber this is all ON PAPER....... paper hanging isnt hard.... amd has been admitted to.

On paper my dogs go back to "old bad ass apbt" as well. .

Coyne1981 09-15-2013 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Tap Pits (Post 937674)
Remeber this is all ON PAPER....... paper hanging isnt hard.... amd has been admitted to.

On paper my dogs go back to "old bad ass apbt" as well. .

Good point.

Just Tap Pits 09-15-2013 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coyne1981 (Post 937682)
Good point.

Not "bashing" just saying the lines I run on paper are 100% pure bred apbt but my smallest male is 90lbs... I dont see even the orginal razors edge dogs being apbt xs. Am staffs yes. Why breed in the genetics you're trying to avoid to add the drive? How do you add the drive of the apbt but cut the da?

rocthebully 09-15-2013 02:52 AM

And I find it funny how you can see a big difference in how the am bully of today looks so different from there grandparents and great grandparents , and that's not even that far back, they don't show the bulldog in the pedigree they threw in there to make them look so extreme.

rocthebully 09-15-2013 02:58 AM

For example look at gottylines Romeo ped . Look at the dogs before him then look at him and the dogs after which includes the famous stud DAX the looks are dramaticly different, its crazy

DieselsMommie 09-15-2013 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocthebully (Post 937770)
And I find it funny how you can see a big difference in how the am bully of today looks so different from there grandparents and great grandparents , and that's not even that far back, they don't show the bulldog in the pedigree they threw in there to make them look so extreme.

They ALL look like bulldogs that's why I'm so shocked an APBT and AmStaff created that. Can anyone post any pix of how these dog started off as? Bc google just shows a bulldog body with a "pit" type head.


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rocthebully 09-15-2013 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselsMommie (Post 937834)
They ALL look like bulldogs that's why I'm so shocked an APBT and AmStaff created that. Can anyone post any pix of how these dog started off as? Bc google just shows a bulldog body with a "pit" type head.


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Go to bullypedia and look up dax , miagi , mo money or any other big name bully and just click on there parents and there parents etc.go back as far as you can.

Just Tap Pits 09-15-2013 04:33 AM

Just look up "throwing knuckles" or "purple rose of cairo"

Pink 09-15-2013 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselsMommie (Post 937834)
They ALL look like bulldogs that's why I'm so shocked an APBT and AmStaff created that. Can anyone post any pix of how these dog started off as? Bc google just shows a bulldog body with a "pit" type head.


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Yeah, they were never meant to be the EB mixes you see folks parading around now.

Examples of some of the first American Bullies..

In the words of Dave Wilson:

Quote:

The dog that I created that gave me the ultimate look was Cairo. Once Cairo was created, that was basically me saying "I'm done. I've got exactly what I'm looking for in the ultimate dog, and this is the accomplishment that I've been looking for all these years, and striving for."
Quote:

Cairo, truly in his prime, I would say, was mid to upper 90's at top weight. He wasn't short, and I don't know heights these days. People are crazy, I don't even know how they measure these days. Cairo was probably 19 3/4"-20".
The dog Dave's referring to - Purple Rose of Cairo

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/...psc1bdf381.jpg

Couple others..

RE's Welcome 2 the Edge

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1a4ea323.jpg

RE's Tequila Sunrise

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8e77c79b.jpg


Shame how people have taken this breed, and what it was originally meant to be, and made it into the mockery that it is today.

Rudy4747 09-15-2013 04:44 AM

https://www.gopitbull.com/bullies-101...can-bully.html
Was put together by pitbullmomatl pretty good little read.

surfer 09-15-2013 05:10 AM

because unless you keep breeding the right[game] ones, you will lose gameness.

i believe gameness is a recessive gene, you need to keep it to the forfront,
if not you basically have a 'show' dog which is nothing like a true apbt.

you breed for gameness and everything else will fall in line and trying to do that can still take generations.

like when you see the dog shows on the tv, you have 'field' and 'show' dogs,
might be called the same but, they are definitely not the same.

just try to tell someone that works his fox hounds that your gonna mix some 'show' blood in to make his dogs look prettier, wont be worth nothing in the field but they will look prettier.

aint really quite understanding that thought process

Just Tap Pits 09-15-2013 05:27 AM

Yeah I dnt get it surfer. If you listen to dave wilson he wanted to make a drivey am staff....

~Missy~ 09-15-2013 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 937570)
Wrong , and of course you will note that *ALL* AmStaffs and *ALL* APBTs will lead back to the exact same place and base dogs..

Not sure what part of my comment is wrong...plz elaborate? We all know where they all came from....

Just Tap Pits 09-15-2013 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Missy~ (Post 938114)
Not sure what part of my comment is wrong...plz elaborate? We all know where they all came from....

Ummm we know what we've been told..... just like with my dogs depends on who you talked to and when you talked to them as to how they came to be...

DieselsMommie 09-15-2013 07:17 AM

Those dogs look nothing like what there is today.....

It's SO obvious EB is in there....c'mon now


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Just Tap Pits 09-15-2013 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselsMommie (Post 938138)
Those dogs look nothing like what there is today.....

It's SO obvious EB is in there....c'mon now


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Oh yeah. Even the bully ppl around here hate those monstrosities. Stalk bully boards, whats hot shit this year wont be seen in 3 years. Its really sad. They are only shortening the life span of the dogs and making them unhealthy mutants (dont mean it to sound degrading but I lack a better word in my vocabulary).

DieselsMommie 09-15-2013 08:18 AM

I never understood why people always considered an EB to be 'muscular' and 'tough' looking. My cousin had one and the puppy almost died bc of all the health problems it was born with. The dog couldn't even go downstairs bc it was so unporportioned. Going up stairs, he sounded like an obese person with emphysema. Never was a fan of the English bulldog. Very curious about the ORIGINAL bulldog tho.

The American bully confuses me. So many classifications it's so scattered.


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DieselsMommie 09-15-2013 09:26 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I bet this will be their next direction or class size Attachment 31786


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OldDog 09-15-2013 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Missy~ (Post 938114)
Not sure what part of my comment is wrong...plz elaborate? We all know where they all came from....



Your claim that the APBT and AST were interbred to get the AmBully , the APBT and AST are derived from the exact same genetic material in the first place.

And ashcan that snotty " we all know where they came from" , because apparently you don't.

Sarah~ 09-15-2013 10:04 AM

So the AmBully and APBT and AST all came from the same dogs, so what all did they put in to get AmBullies? Just curious, since I thought the same thing Missy did til I read through here. You guys mentioned English Bulldogs, anything else? And while I'm at it, I keep seeing some people say that APBTs were not crosses between bulldogs and terriers. Everything else I've looked up on APBTs (Wikipedia and such, mostly online stuff so this could be false) says they were. So unless I read what those people were saying wrong (very possible) what makes you guys say that? Not trying to start an argument or drama, just wanting to learn a little history on the breed. If my question is dumb, I apologize. I'm just feeling a bit confused reading one story and then another.

Edit: If the answer to my question is too long or better answered in private, feel free to pm.

surfer 09-15-2013 12:54 PM

myself, i dont know where they really came from..............
england, ireland, or somewhere.
i agree there had to be a 'core' of dogs to be consistant,

but once we got them here and really developed what we see today.

in other words, we took the ball and ran with it.

Sarah~ 09-15-2013 03:24 PM

It's interesting to see the different stories... When I was researching the history of the German shepherd before I got one, it was "this happened, this happened, and the GSD was created". But the GSD is a much newer breed, I'm sure that makes a difference.

rocthebully 09-15-2013 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfer (Post 938234)
myself, i dont know where they really came from..............
england, ireland, or somewhere.
i agree there had to be a 'core' of dogs to be consistant,

but once we got them here and really developed what we see today.

in other words, we took the ball and ran with it.

On bullypedia it said a lot of them were from ireland, I think only the people who created the apbt and am.bully really know what went In to these dogs of course but I'm also confused but there was a lot of good points and info and I'm sure a few people learned a lil in this thread

~Missy~ 09-16-2013 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 938202)
Your claim that the APBT and AST were interbred to get the AmBully , the APBT and AST are derived from the exact same genetic material in the first place.

And ashcan that snotty " we all know where they came from" , because apparently you don't.

The American Bully derived from crossing the ADBA APBT and the UKC AST. More breeds have be introduced in since the original breedings started. Yes they are ALL derived from the same genetic material, but I'm sure you are aware that the ADBA APBTS and the UKC ASTs have different structures.

DieselsMommie 09-16-2013 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Missy~ (Post 939010)
The American Bully derived from crossing the ADBA APBT and the UKC AST. More breeds have be introduced in since the original breedings started. Yes they are ALL derived from the same genetic material, but I'm sure you are aware that the ADBA APBTS and the UKC ASTs have different structures.

Isn't UKC APBT & AKC is AST?


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Coyne1981 09-16-2013 12:48 AM

Well, that is what Wilson said he did. An AST and APBT. And purple rose of cairo is what he bred as "razors edge". After that, all kinds of things hit the fan. And you have all kinds of mixes for the am bully. But, unless you know something about the american bully thats some top secret thing. I dont think you have any way to tell us what they originally started from Old Dog.

OldDog 09-16-2013 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Missy~ (Post 939010)
The American Bully derived from crossing the ADBA APBT and the UKC AST. More breeds have be introduced in since the original breedings started. Yes they are ALL derived from the same genetic material, but I'm sure you are aware that the ADBA APBTS and the UKC ASTs have different structures.


Nahhhh , in better than four decades of involvement with these dogs I guess I missed all that. I wouldn't know anything whatsoever about the ADBA dogs as opposed to the UKC/AKC dogs.

Nope wouldn't know a thing.........

~Missy~ 09-16-2013 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselsMommie (Post 939034)
Isn't UKC APBT & AKC is AST?


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lol, yes....I was trying to say AKC AST and UKC APBT...got all mixed up.


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