Structure and Faults

**Mach0** · 02-07-2011, 02:26 PM

Still trying to practice stacking lol so excuse crappy pics

**angelbaby** · 02-07-2011, 08:54 PM

ok hopefully i got her standing right I think her back legs are kicked out too far??? let me know if this works she just turned a year { I thought she was more classic looking what you think} And could I show her UKC or ABKC?

ok lol hopefully one of those helped what you need lol let me know if you need more

LoudMouf · 02-08-2011, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach0

Still trying to practice stacking lol so excuse crappy pics

Head:
-Too narrow muzzle
-Lacking Significant Cheek

Body:
-Long Neck lacking Tapering
-Turned Out Fronts
-Excessive Tuck
-Roach Back (could possible be the photo)
-Long Tail
-Turned in Hocks (might be the photos)

Overall Impression: Lacking a bit of substance. Small standard, I would probably attempt to add some weight and continue to condition the dog and then take some new photos for re-evaluation.

**apbtmom76** · 02-08-2011, 02:22 AM

ok Devin, not that I am tryin to argue, and I am in NOOOO way a judge or any kind of expert on the bully but why do y'all like them so thick, I think Blue looks awesome, I really do like to see a bully in shape with some muscle tone, natural and in a good working condition.

What do you mean by lackin significant cheek?? ANd I see the roach back but I think that is due tot he pic, sorry I am not trying to argue, I amtrying to learn is all

And from what I haev seen he does have a long neck but I thought the original RE dogs had longer necks, see this is where my outcrossing with EB's and Presa's and stuff come in, did they do that to shorten the dog's neck, ughhh ok ok don't answer these, let me come back when I haven't been drinking

Thanks Devin, please don't take what I am saying as a knock, i really am trying to learn

Sadie · 02-08-2011, 02:29 AM

I am just curious are you basing your opinions off the ABKC standards? Because both of these dog's don't really fit the ABKC standards at least not the standards they have now. They are more on the UKC side of the fence structure wise well at least Luna is. I have never owned a bully nor have I been to an ABKC show but I know a lot of the dogs at those shows are much larger than those pictured here. So I am just trying to get a better perspective as to which standard you are using here to judge these dogs.

Thanks

Sadie

LoudMouf · 02-08-2011, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelbaby

ok hopefully i got her standing right I think her back legs are kicked out too far??? let me know if this works she just turned a year { I thought she was more classic looking what you think} And could I show her UKC or ABKC?

ok lol hopefully one of those helped what you need lol let me know if you need more

Head:
-Could use slightly more padding in the top skull

Body:
-Slight rise in backline
-Lacking Rear Angulation
-Lacking Turn to Stifle
-Narrow Chest
-Lacking Shoulder
-Could use a bit more Forechest.

Overall Impression: I actually like this dog for an ABKC Classic Class. Although it is bit lacking in rear assembly and the animal is not square.

Black Label Romo · 02-08-2011, 02:32 AM

Yes he is basing it off of the ABKC standard...these people wanted to know how their dogs would possibly do in the ABKC show ring...

**Mach0** · 02-08-2011, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudMouf

Head:
-Too narrow muzzle
-Lacking Significant Cheek

Body:
-Long Neck lacking Tapering
-Turned Out Fronts
-Excessive Tuck
-Roach Back (could possible be the photo)
-Long Tail
-Turned in Hocks (might be the photos)

Overall Impression: Lacking a bit of substance. Small standard, I would probably attempt to add some weight and continue to condition the dog and then take some new photos for re-evaluation.

I will try some actual stacking photos but thanks for your op. I knew it would be tough in the ABKC since I like him leaner than what I normally see.
He's not roach backed but i can Deff see how you would see it- it's the pic. His rear is a little bit higher but not very little. It really depends on how he stands. I guess I might stick to w/p.

Here's two diff pics so u can see some other types of photos - do you think he needs more weight? Honestly- not trying to nit pick- just really curious.

Sadie · 02-08-2011, 02:38 AM

Well IMO Luna would def do better in the UKC .. Mach0 if you put some weight on your boy he would have a better chance at competing in the ABKC ... But he's too small as of now to fit the ABKC standards you want to show him in the ABKC your going to have to beef him up. Roach back and some rib showing is ok for ADBA dogs but not UKC/ABKC dog's lol. Anyway Continue on ....

**angelbaby** · 02-08-2011, 02:44 AM

thanks loud mouf appreciate your thoughts, she is 1 will any of her flaws improve as she ages I know I have seen her fill out a TON more in the last 2-3 months Im wondering if her head will gain more cushion as she grows? and maybe her shoulders and chest will fill out more?

LoudMouf · 02-08-2011, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apbtmom76

ok Devin, not that I am tryin to argue, and I am in NOOOO way a judge or any kind of expert on the bully but why do y'all like them so thick, I think Blue looks awesome, I really do like to see a bully in shape with some muscle tone, natural and in a good working condition.

What do you mean by lackin significant cheek?? ANd I see the roach back but I think that is due tot he pic, sorry I am not trying to argue, I amtrying to learn is all

And from what I haev seen he does have a long neck but I thought the original RE dogs had longer necks, see this is where my outcrossing with EB's and Presa's and stuff come in, did they do that to shorten the dog's neck, ughhh ok ok don't answer these, let me come back when I haven't been drinking

Thanks Devin, please don't take what I am saying as a knock, i really am trying to learn

I will be the first to tell you I believe a bully should be conditioned and not overweight. BUT you have to remember that the American Bully is NOT a working breed, it is a companion breed and does require that the dog carry more substance. I guess the only way I can describe it in basic terms, the height/weight ratio should be overdone and excessive compared to a working breed. What it should not be is: lacking muscle definition. These are not sloppy fat dogs. "They [American Bullies] should medium/large dog with muscular bodies and blocky heads"

If you refer to ABKC Breed Standards you will notice the standard refers to "very pronounced cheek". If you refer to apbtconformation.com the best example of what I am referring to is under the Head Structure you will find a section where they refer to "The Cheek muscles are also becoming overly developed as one of those fad characteristics. Cheek muscles should be prominent but not exaggerated. There is a standard and the standard does not present a dog that has gross overly developed cheek musclulature."- That is a direct definition of what an American Bully SHOULD have.

Actually quite the contray, short necks is not a trait of mixing breeding. Ironically it is a trait that comes from the Amstaff lines which also added alot of the excessive cheek. A Presa or any other Mastiff would not shorten the necks and will add excessive dewlap and excessive loose skin.

**Mach0** · 02-08-2011, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadie

Well IMO Luna would def do better in the UKC .. Mach0 if you put some weight on your boy he would have a better chance at competing in the ABKC ... But he's too small as of now to fit the ABKC standards you want to show him in the ABKC your going to have to beef him up. Roach back and some rib showing is ok for ADBA dogs but not UKC/ABKC dog's lol. Anyway Continue on ....

:-p
Idk if I wanna show ABKC- unless I can thicken him up and keep him looking good and athletic.

Loudmouf- Ty for your input.While I understand the ambully is a companion not a working breed-I prefer a working capable dog.just my personal pref. I'm kind of stuck lol.

LoudMouf · 02-08-2011, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadie

I am just curious are you basing your opinions off the ABKC standards? Because both of these dog's don't really fit the ABKC standards at least not the standards they have now. They are more on the UKC side of the fence structure wise well at least Luna is. I have never owned a bully nor have I been to an ABKC show but I know a lot of the dogs at those shows are much larger than those pictured here. So I am just trying to get a better perspective as to which standard you are using here to judge these dogs.

Thanks

Sadie

I wouldn't say either dog fit the revised UKC breed standard for the APBT. I am not sure how much show experience you have, but they would call both dogs very much overdone. Now I would agree with you that they are very fitting of the previous UKC breed standard.

Thus far I am reviewing the dogs to the ABKC Classic Breed Standard based on the written breed standard along with my experience within both the American Bully and APBT communities. By your own account you have never attended an ABKC event, and if you read my disclaimer I noted it is very difficult for me to evaluate by pics without actually seeing the actual size and movement of the animal. But make no mistake I have seen American Bullies come in all shapes and sizes, just as you have with the APBT........it is much more important to review Breed Type and Balance over actual size figures.

This isn't the best picture of her, but this was a dog I showed in the UKC. Knowlwood and Gaff blood and probably a good example of what an ABKC Classic female looks like. If the ABKC had been established when I was showing this girl, I am sure she would have championed out easily within the ABKC Classic class.

LoudMouf · 02-08-2011, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach0

:-p
Idk if I wanna show ABKC- unless I can thicken him up and keep him looking good and athletic.

Loudmouf- Ty for your input.While I understand the ambully is a companion not a working breed-I prefer a working capable dog.just my personal pref. I'm kind of stuck lol.

I am absolutely agree. I actually own the very first American Bully to very compete in SplashDogs dock diving. He was very athletic while still carrying bully traits. I think it is a misunderstanding of the breed which makes people think that the American Bully is suppose to be a grossly overdone sloppy fat dog. It's a balancing act and honestly I love your dog's rear assembly!!!! With more weight I think he could have a chance in the ABKC.

**Mach0** · 02-08-2011, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudMouf

I am absolutely agree. I actually own the very first American Bully to very compete in SplashDogs dock diving. He was very athletic while still carrying bully traits. I think it is a misunderstanding of the breed which makes people think that the American Bully is suppose to be a grossly overdone sloppy fat dog. It's a balancing act and honestly I love your dog's rear assembly!!!! With more weight I think he could have a chance in the ABKC.

Thank you bud- lets see. I have made him lose alot of fat-when our winter is over- I'm going to be doing some drag to up the definition.