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Old 08-11-2008, 11:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
 

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weight collar?

Couldn't find a thread on this topic, so does anyone use weighted collars in conditioning?
I was always a bit wary of them due to the potential for injury, but recently have noticed many people using them when running/walking their dogs simply to build neck tone and strength for show or just to get their pit in better shape. Anyone have opinions?
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
 

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Personally I don't like them. It seems like it would pull at the neck and promote a slouched posture. I find a spring pole works just as well and its more fun for the dog and a better overall excersize.
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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I don't like them either, because everything I've read says they just put pressure on the spine. I'd rather put my dogs in a pull harness and have them drag a tire or a drag sled. In reality, a dog is going to be limited by their genetics. Some dogs, like my boy Priest, stay in great shape with minimal work. Others respond well to exercise, but I think actually putting weight on their bodies would just serve to break them down. Lots of serious conditioners don't use them; they get the max benefit out of roadwork, springpole, dragwork, flirtpole, etc.
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Old 08-12-2008, 12:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by BedlamBully View Post
Personally I don't like them. It seems like it would pull at the neck and promote a slouched posture. I find a spring pole works just as well and its more fun for the dog and a better overall excersize.
Totall agree, I like the spring pole in the air but something I do different is the same as a springpole in the air but I also have one attached to the ground and staked with a heavy duty spring that is smaller than a normal garage door spring, it has 850pd tension rating on. My female works it heavy all day, it put where she can keep a good hold on it and one she finally releases it, it flops over on my male's chainspot. I lot of thinking and placement went into this before I did for the sake of injuries while we are not home but so far so good on it and not one problem and her front end hasn't looked better ever.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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I read a bunch about this too and every SINGLE article condemned it. Doesn't sound like a good idea. Kind of unnatural right? It's probably just like people... the movements or exercises that feel most natural tend to be the most effective for gaining strength and agility..... generally, the better conditioning, the more developed the athlete is
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
 

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Ive come across much condemning of the weight collars as well, but usually it was the form of condemning the use of weight on the neck as a substitute for any type of work or exercise, such as tying your dog up with weight on its neck all day. However some common sense leads me to think that adding 2-3 pounds to a grown dogs neck/shoulder area for ten minutes while on the mill or walking would certainly build some form of defining muscles... or else why would it have been a common practice since the early migrant dogs from the england and ireland and still practiced by many show people? I guess it comes down to weather or not it actually causes harm, and surely extended periods spent weighted would, however I am guessing (not positive) that short workouts with weighted neck, in conjunction with weight pull and spring pole work, would really cause no harm.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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I heard alot of people using it, however I have never done so myslef so I couldnt tell you about results. The only area I might ever try it is if I was teaching a dog to pull and it constantly wanted to raise its head to high but Im just guessing here.
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
 

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What muscle could a collar possible work out. High on the neck so it didn't fall down would restrict air, decently loose would fall to far down on the neck to benefit from it from it. Do as you please but even on a treadmill, or during walking I can see the no benefit from it personally but to each his own. Maybe it could work for a bully style dog where muscle mass is something to be proud of. But it is your dogs not mine. I still feel the springpole properly setup and a flirtpole one day a week would surpass a everday workout with a weighted collar. 15 minute work on a flirtpole is better than a 60 minute walk a night at a decent pace. If I had only one piece of equipment to own it would be a flirtpole and I could condition against the best ADBA champs with all the equipment and still kick their butt.

A flirt pole devolps real life movement of a working dog. It keeps the mind sharp and quick. A flirtpole is the equipment to own and knowing how to properly use a flirt pole is the way to go, IMO.
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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If your main concern is actual harm, I have heard that that weighted collars can put pressure on the spine, which is never a good thing. There's got to be a reason why a lot of the really serious conditioners don't use them.
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Old 08-15-2008, 02:12 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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What muscle could a collar possible work out. High on the neck so it didn't fall down would restrict air, decently loose would fall to far down on the neck to benefit from it from it. Do as you please but even on a treadmill, or during walking I can see the no benefit from it personally but to each his own. Maybe it could work for a bully style dog where muscle mass is something to be proud of. But it is your dogs not mine. I still feel the springpole properly setup and a flirtpole one day a week would surpass a everday workout with a weighted collar. 15 minute work on a flirtpole is better than a 60 minute walk a night at a decent pace. If I had only one piece of equipment to own it would be a flirtpole and I could condition against the best ADBA champs with all the equipment and still kick their butt.

A flirt pole devolps real life movement of a working dog. It keeps the mind sharp and quick. A flirtpole is the equipment to own and knowing how to properly use a flirt pole is the way to go, IMO.
I'm getting/making a flirt pole. by the way... would a spring pole work if I tied to to a tree in the woods?
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by shadowgames View Post
What muscle could a collar possible work out. High on the neck so it didn't fall down would restrict air, decently loose would fall to far down on the neck to benefit from it from it. Do as you please but even on a treadmill, or during walking I can see the no benefit from it personally but to each his own. Maybe it could work for a bully style dog where muscle mass is something to be proud of.
lol, what makes you think that weight on the lower neck would not strengthen the shoulder/neck of the dog?
I hate to break it to you, but I think you are over generalizing quite a bit with your assumptions in saying "maybe it will work in a bully dog where muscle mass is something to be proud of", many people are proud of their strong muscle bound dog regardless of its pedigree, are you telling me you dont think an old game dog fully fitted and toned with muscle mass is a beautiful thing? Keep in mind that weight collars have been used far before the razors edge concoctions were anywhere to be found.

Quote:
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If I had only one piece of equipment to own it would be a flirtpole and I could condition against the best ADBA champs with all the equipment and still kick their butt.
"Kick their butts" in what exactly? Weight pull? Only using a flirtpole? I doubt it. Tug contests? Doubt it. Conformation...? maybe, but I think a trainer with a variety of conditioning methods would have an advantage over someone strictly using the flirtpole.
etc. etc.
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Old 08-15-2008, 03:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
 

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lol, what makes you think that weight on the lower neck would not strengthen the shoulder/neck of the dog?
I hate to break it to you, but I think you are over generalizing quite a bit with your assumptions in saying "maybe it will work in a bully dog where muscle mass is something to be proud of", many people are proud of their strong muscle bound dog regardless of its pedigree, are you telling me you dont think an old game dog fully fitted and toned with muscle mass is a beautiful thing? Keep in mind that weight collars have been used far before the razors edge concoctions were anywhere to be found.



"Kick their butts" in what exactly? Weight pull? Only using a flirtpole? I doubt it. Tug contests? Doubt it. Conformation...? maybe, but I think a trainer with a variety of conditioning methods would have an advantage over someone strictly using the flirtpole.
etc. etc.
What form of weight pulling would a weight collar hold in training. Also incorrect form is just as bad as not weight training at all, form means more than weight. The guy I trained my dogs with owns a 5 X ACE in ADBA Weightpull that is one dog, not counting his other seven dogs that are at least aces. Secondly, to give you an idea of who has taught me conditioning, I own the treadmill that Bert Clouse owned the day he died and added to it, Joe Corvino made it for him. The mill was given to me out of respect and I didn't pay a single dime for it. I conditioned a 70lb blue dog and won at ADBA Conformation show under Hank Greenwood as the judge, a definte proud moment that others said couldn't be done. I would sit back and say nothing but I have a decent amount of knowledge passed on to me, believe what you want I will believe what I want. Next time a ADBA show is near you stop in and ask each person who takes first what is the most valued piece of a equipment they own, I bet 8 out 10 say a flirtpole.What do you think produced the CH. on the cover of the gazette that took nationals last year in Iowa, what tool do you think they used. I will be happy to foward her number to you.Also if you don't believe me, call up Greg Mealer down in Texas who has produced many weight pull dogs and won many weight pull shows, or call Draw the line and ask him how he trains, you won't hear any weight collar BS, I promise you that. How about the guy on here who has TNT's Rolex, ask him to ask Robert Craig. I give my opinions nothing more or less so do as you please.

Secondly muscle mass is not something even a weight pull dog needs necessarily, you bring a muscled dog and I will bring my lean athlete down and I will put my 35lb female up against anything you got male or female up to 70lbs (double the weight of my dog) and I bet my flirtpole work will out pull your dog. It is not just about the dog itself, but the man/ woman behind the dog that makes the dog.

Also for newbies take everything you hear with a grain a salt, take what read and walk away with 25% because the other 75% is crap, and only believe 50% of what you see in these dogs and you will be fine. All forums should say 12 people here are lieing about their dogs.

I don't know what state you are in, but give me a class and age group and I will find a dog to condition against you also. Let the conformation ring do the talking. Next show I will be at is Sept. Land of OZ ADBA show.

Last edited by shadowgames; 08-15-2008 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 08-15-2008, 03:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
 

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The springpole in the tree is fine, same place I have mine, I use the quick connects in the tree to remove it when not in use. Makes the dogs want it more when they see you removing it away, makes them work it harder next time. Keep it fun for them, give them enough where they are getting really excited after 10 - 15 minutes, then take it away. You will get a more willing athlete. Keep it where their front paws are barely touching or slightly above the ground (1/4 of a inch) when not tugging on it. Never put it up so high they can't touch the ground, or make it adjustable heights because it is awesome watching them jump and take a hold.
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Cow chains and a padlock has always done the trick for my old dogs.
I only kept it on for long walks...like 2 miles or more. After that we take it off and flirt pole, tug rope, and or treadmill or good ole fashion run.
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Old 08-15-2008, 06:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
 

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The added weight...say 5 pounds on a 50 pound dog or 10% would add to the overall weight of the dog during some activity. I think they use the neck out of ease of placement but you could add weight to some saddle bags just the same. Personally, I don't think many of our dogs benefit all that much from dead weight as they do from a vigorous activity. On an adult dog, I don't think a 5# collar (no more than 10% of the dogs total weight) would be dangerous for shorter periods of time like walks. Definitely a no-no for pups...I hate seeing pups with chain/padlock combinations used as a "collar". Even on adult dogs...just get a good collar like Stillwater Kennels...only around $8.00.
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