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Old 08-15-2013, 09:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by r1balla View Post
I wanted to put weight on her. now that she is 58-60 pounds, time to cut the fat and see what muscle has been built. Im just following my own philosophy with bodybuilding. Just assuming its the same with dogs. I have no clue if this is correct or not, but as of yesterday (day 1 of her cut) I am feeding her a total of 2 1/2 cups a day. split in half breakfast/dinner. should i slowly taper down and get under that?




Roxy shows nice back muscle and muscle in her thighs, but thats about it. shes def on the smaller side in terms of mass and her head is a bit smaller than my other ABPT but Roxy is a mutt. but i love her! anyways, today I walked her 2 miles as her "long walk" day. I can tell she is worn out so I will probably take her on a short 30 min walk tonight before we have dinner and call it a day.

I really really appreciate everybody's help. This is new for me when it comes to dogs. my previous dog was a golden retriever used for duck/bird hunting so i focused more on technique and obedience training. The conditioning and stuff is almost like bodybuilding for dogs lol i love it.
Not a problem, I'm still learning myself!
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
 

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A couple of points , not all mills are created equal. And you need to decide whether you're going to utilise a slat mill , a carpet mill , an electric mill or a jenny.

And explore the concept of sub aerobic threshold work , forget the damn corn flakes , forget coconut oil ,use olive oil , canola oil or medium chain triglycerides instead , Cytomax is better than CarboPlex and buffers lactic acid. Red Cell is worth using , as is liver if you can get *clean* liver , whey protein is worth considering if you don't overdo it , Metabollol II will take carry of protein supplementation while carrying the proper carb balance and a msall amount of the proper fats.

Thing about how a dog works in the box , it's not all out effort all the time , it's in bursts of effort/energy . just as with a human boxer , wrestler or NHB fighter.

An example , a rough example , you've got that dog on an electric mill ,you put 15 minutes on him at a fast walking pace , say 4 mph , then 5 minutes at 10 mph , back down to a slow walk ( 2 or 3) for 5 minutes then back to 4 or 5 for another 15 minutes and burst him up to a fast pace for five minutes again.

If the dog will wear it a heart monitor is of some value , normal resting heart rate varies with size and breed but a rough window is 70 to 150 beats a minute or so , pups over 200. Just as with human athletes operating below the aerobic threshold with burst up to the aerobic threshold works.

Carpet mills can build strength , don't much care for 'em myself . prefer hill work and other things , a good slat mill or free turning jenny can build good wind.

But *never* DISCOUNT HANDWALKING , you can vary the terrain , light day on flat ground , heavy day lots of hill work , toss a ball up the hill and have the dog pull to it.

Little things make a difference , keeping the dog interested makes a difference , enough rest makes a difference.

An athletes muscles and body grow and repair of REST days , not on work days and *over* work has taken the tools from many an otherwise great dog , it's a fine line.

Make that dog look forward to it's workout , don't make it a chore.

Last edited by OldDog; 08-15-2013 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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see this goes to show thats there is more than one way to skin a cat,
we did pretty much the same thing just acouple of things different.

the thing on liver our vet told os pork liver was better than beef.

how you decide, just stick with your routine, dogs love a routine.
and however you decide, see if its a proven theory,
if it is then go with it, if someone trying to tell you something, and all they've ever done is nothing then maybe, that might not need to be the way to go.

if you listen you can tell if someone knows what their talkin about,
like old dog wrote, all that just flowed together, in order.

but just remember to keep it simple, you can make it harder as you go.
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:06 AM   #19 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by OldDog View Post
A couple of points , not all mills are created equal. And you need to decide whether you're going to utilise a slat mill , a carpet mill , an electric mill or a jenny.

And explore the concept of sub aerobic threshold work , forget the damn corn flakes , forget coconut oil ,use olive oil , canola oil or medium chain triglycerides instead , Cytomax is better than CarboPlex and buffers lactic acid. Red Cell is worth using , as is liver if you can get *clean* liver , whey protein is worth considering if you don't overdo it , Metabollol II will take carry of protein supplementation while carrying the proper carb balance and a msall amount of the proper fats.

Thing about how a dog works in the box , it's not all out effort all the time , it's in bursts of effort/energy . just as with a human boxer , wrestler or NHB fighter.

An example , a rough example , you've got that dog on an electric mill ,you put 15 minutes on him at a fast walking pace , say 4 mph , then 5 minutes at 10 mph , back down to a slow walk ( 2 or 3) for 5 minutes then back to 4 or 5 for another 15 minutes and burst him up to a fast pace for five minutes again.

If the dog will wear it a heart monitor is of some value , normal resting heart rate varies with size and breed but a rough window is 70 to 150 beats a minute or so , pups over 200. Just as with human athletes operating below the aerobic threshold with burst up to the aerobic threshold works.

Carpet mills can build strength , don't much care for 'em myself . prefer hill work and other things , a good slat mill or free turning jenny can build good wind.

But *never* DISCOUNT HANDWALKING , you can vary the terrain , light day on flat ground , heavy day lots of hill work , toss a ball up the hill and have the dog pull to it.

Little things make a difference , keeping the dog interested makes a difference , enough rest makes a difference.

An athletes muscles and body grow and repair of REST days , not on work days and *over* work has taken the tools from many an otherwise great dog , it's a fine line.

Make that dog look forward to it's workout , don't make it a chore.
That's pretty much HIIT training also known as high intensity cardio training. For humans, you walk 60 seconds then sprint for 30 seconds then walk for 60 sprint 30. Etc. Many variations of this routine but it's awesome for fat loss on humans. May have to try that with roxy once my torn ligaments in my ankle heal. I don't have the money for a mill right now. Wish I did.

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Old 08-16-2013, 12:37 AM   #20 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by r1balla View Post
That's pretty much HIIT training also known as high intensity cardio training. For humans, you walk 60 seconds then sprint for 30 seconds then walk for 60 sprint 30. Etc. Many variations of this routine but it's awesome for fat loss on humans. May have to try that with roxy once my torn ligaments in my ankle heal. I don't have the money for a mill right now. Wish I did.

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Exactly. You can do it without a mill ( once your ankle heals , and don't put too much stress on that ankle too soon) walk a set distance , sprint with the dog a set distance , find a hill , walk 15 minutes on the flat at the bootom of the hill , sprint up the hill , walk slow and easy back down and then do it over again.
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
 

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one thing that really sucks is one of the spring poles, roxy is afraid of now because the old one snapped (the spring) so she isnt get hardly any work on that right now but im trying to get her back and build her trust in it. Had a great long walk yesterday along with alot of flirt pole and frisbee play. This morning i only did about 5 minutes of flirt pole then im gonna take her on a short walk then do tugging today. Tomorrow will be the off day. maybe do some obedience training and a short walk but thats it. how is that routine looking? 1 hard day, 1 mild day, 1 off day for a three day rotation? Sundays I have church till about 12 pm so i like to make sundays a fun day for her. either swimming or let the girls go to the field by my house and just run around play fetch...etc
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:44 PM   #22 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by r1balla View Post
one thing that really sucks is one of the spring poles, roxy is afraid of now because the old one snapped (the spring) so she isnt get hardly any work on that right now but im trying to get her back and build her trust in it. Had a great long walk yesterday along with alot of flirt pole and frisbee play. This morning i only did about 5 minutes of flirt pole then im gonna take her on a short walk then do tugging today. Tomorrow will be the off day. maybe do some obedience training and a short walk but thats it. how is that routine looking? 1 hard day, 1 mild day, 1 off day for a three day rotation? Sundays I have church till about 12 pm so i like to make sundays a fun day for her. either swimming or let the girls go to the field by my house and just run around play fetch...etc


That'll work , or should..........and hey when you make another spring pole see if you can get your hands on some of the bungee cord for bungee jumping , replace a spring with a chunk of that.

Seen a dog or two get teeth knocked out when a spring broke over the years.
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
 

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That'll work , or should..........and hey when you make another spring pole see if you can get your hands on some of the bungee cord for bungee jumping , replace a spring with a chunk of that.

Seen a dog or two get teeth knocked out when a spring broke over the years.
The springs are so high she couldn't get it if she tried. At least the one with the tire as the toy. The rope one is alot smaller but she doesn't use that as her jumping one, just to pull on.

Where would I get the bungee cords?

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Old 08-16-2013, 06:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
 

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here are some pics taken today. Day 3 of her cut/conditioning. Three days ago at the vet she was 58.7 pounds.



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Old 08-16-2013, 09:55 PM   #25 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by r1balla View Post
The springs are so high she couldn't get it if she tried. At least the one with the tire as the toy. The rope one is alot smaller but she doesn't use that as her jumping one, just to pull on.

Where would I get the bungee cords?

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It;s not her getting to them , it's a spring breaking at an inopportune moment and coming the wrong way.

Going to have to do some research on where to find bungees in a given area , sometimes bungee jumping outfits sell 'em off when they replace theirs , most often you'll have to buy more than you want but the have other interesting uses.

If you're dog will pull in a horizontal plane you can bolt one up to a wall and build the equivalent of a horizontal springpole , don't laugh until you give that some thought , what plane does a dog push and pull in when they are actually working.
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Old 08-17-2013, 06:38 AM   #26 (permalink)
 

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It;s not her getting to them , it's a spring breaking at an inopportune moment and coming the wrong way.

Going to have to do some research on where to find bungees in a given area , sometimes bungee jumping outfits sell 'em off when they replace theirs , most often you'll have to buy more than you want but the have other interesting uses.

If you're dog will pull in a horizontal plane you can bolt one up to a wall and build the equivalent of a horizontal springpole , don't laugh until you give that some thought , what plane does a dog push and pull in when they are actually working.
I'll try this once I see she is willing to get back on the poles at the level she was at previously. She would attack that toy but now she stands and kinda nibbles at it, sometimes pulls but then seems uninterested it in and wants to do the flirt pole.

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Old 08-17-2013, 06:50 AM   #27 (permalink)
 
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A keep is HARD on the body of a dog who isn't used to that intensity.

IMO, you're better off taking your time and working up to the point that you're happy with. Slowly. Pace it. Unless you're conditioning for something in particular and NEED fast results, easing your way into it is the best way to go.

Try adding in a NEW form of exercise your routine together. Something that uses different muscles in new ways. Swimming, for example.
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:17 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Okay, I'm reading all of these points and advice given and I have a couple of questions. Say you have a dog that has literally no interest in flirt pole or frisbee or anything of that nature... then how do you work them?

For example, my girl likes sticks, but only to chase after them and chew them up rather than continue playing with them. I made a flirt pole when she was younger, but she showed no interest in it. Don't have a way to make a spring pole, and she doesn't like to play fetch. Seems the best I can do with her is drag weight, and hand walking. She will make a half attempt to play fetch with my daughter in the house with her small stuffed animals, but I don't allow her to play with those, so she will just walk around with them in her mouth, and try to hide and eat them. My daughter is only 4 yrs old and I have to fuss at her not to throw the toys because Ices will chew them up, but she thinks its hilarious to see her go at break-neck speed running through the house to get it and then has a fit when Ices won't give it back to her.

I don't want to confuse her by allowing her to chew on some stuffed animals and not allowing her to have others, so in that case, what do I do?

ETA: Also, forgot to add, I'm 9 months pregnant and work evening shift, usually getting home between 930 and 11 pm, depending on the night of the week, so I don't dare go walking at night, as I'm exhausted after being on my feet all evening, and live in a not so good neighborhood. I'm usually up by 9 am, drinking my one cup of coffee and watching what news I can find, and then start my day with whatever errands I have to run before work, or property maintenance, etc. I know I need to make time to work my dog, but would like to have better ideas how to go about it before I start a regimen.
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by Beret View Post
A keep is HARD on the body of a dog who isn't used to that intensity.

IMO, you're better off taking your time and working up to the point that you're happy with. Slowly. Pace it. Unless you're conditioning for something in particular and NEED fast results, easing your way into it is the best way to go.

Try adding in a NEW form of exercise your routine together. Something that uses different muscles in new ways. Swimming, for example.


That's why most every keep starts with a pre-keep , your points above are highly valid and well taken. That said FAST results are almost never the way to go , fast results almost always result in a compromise in some facet , many times with an injured dog , the loss or degradation of a specific tool ( mouth at the expense of wind or vice versa for example) and in the end a great many times a loss on the record.

FAST is usually a disservice to the given dog in question.
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:38 PM   #30 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by ThaLadyPit View Post
Okay, I'm reading all of these points and advice given and I have a couple of questions. Say you have a dog that has literally no interest in flirt pole or frisbee or anything of that nature... then how do you work them?

I know I need to make time to work my dog, but would like to have better ideas how to go about it before I start a regimen.

Part of the key to working a dog is finding the work that the dog enjoys. And this is none of my damn business , but seems like you have a LOT on your plate right now and you're still thinking about the dog too and how to work her , you don't get just a tip of the hat from me for that , the damn hat is OFF to you , few have that sort of thought or dedication.

Seems like walking and dragweight , may well be the way to go for you at this time , if you could afford to get a cheap used electric mill it might be ideal for you , start with sets of 5 to 10 minutes at a slow walk and then build to the walk / sprint program I described.

If you're goingto handwalk , try light day/heavy day /restday , add some hillwork.
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