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Old 12-12-2013, 02:29 AM   #1 (permalink)
 

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gameness

Yep, I'm from the old school, schooled by people like KIMSEY WOOD, Ronnie Hyde, even Maurice Carver. Doesn't make me anything, just telling where my perspective on bulldogs come from. I call them bulldogs affectionately, most younger ones are confused and say pits! Well they're just bulldogs to me. anyway I wanted to comment about the trait of gameness. Get that? Trait? Is it is or is it aint! To quote one of my favorite southern writers. To presume it's a trait is to agree that gameness is genetic. Therefore, the question I address is one I recently saw, and now can't find it! If gameness can be bred in can we lose it over time, or breed it out of them? Of course, you can breed it out, but that is not to say by not fighting dogs that they loose their gameness. If the genetic make up is present, well it's present. The question is, how do you know the dog is game if it is not tested? You don't. And if the genetic make up is there then, whether the dog is tested or not, the gameness is there. Many confuse dog aggression with gameness, big mistake! Totally different. Some game dogs are not aggressive at all and many aggressive dogs are certainly not game! So, in conclusion, if gameness is genetic, it is in the dog whether or not we fight them. It may not be aggressive, which is sometimes present and I believe may be both genetic and learned behavior. But, to the contrary I don't believe you can teach gameness, it is genetic! Not to say a dog will not go longer for a master that it loves! Gameness is genetic, but don't forget, all things equal in genetics, then come, conditioning, health, family life, relations, etc. So blood is important just as the man, or woman, behind the dog is important!
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Amen! One of the men that I like to call a mentor had this exact convo with me. Very wise words.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
 

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Thanks, MSK, and I was just thinking of color with gameness. I have loved a brindle or two, a few white, more than a number of black and buckskin or reds. But a combination is my preference, and that's all it is, my preference!
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Out of the 10 years ive been with these dogs I have been blessed to be exposed to alot since my husband has been in and around them for the past 20 years. His father got him into them and he got me into them. I have had many different bloodlines and colors and to me I dont think there is one I feel superior as a combination is what I seek with most anything. The dogs I have now are completely different then what my husband started me with. Thanks to the old man I spoke of earlier I was exposed to so many different types of bulldogs I would have never gotten my hands on if not for him. All ican say really is I thank god everday for my exposer to these dogs cause it forever has changed me.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
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good post rex,keep'm coming..
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:52 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Its the easiest trait to lose in these dogs..
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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As always, it is always good to hear your perspective. I also have also just called them bulldogs, but occasionally I need to refer to them as "pit bull, or pit" just so some will know what I am talking about, lol. And as you obviously know, the word "game, or gameness" when it comes to canines is the most misused, miss understood term I can think of.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Please keep these posts coming as we all are students. These are great posts.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Awesome Post Mr. A I think many people could really learn some thing bout gameness. I see all to much being a dog show attendant. People think cause the dog is barking that it is some thing special. I feel gameness is so important to where the dogss came from and huge part of why they are the versitile animal we know today.

Thanks for the insight sir...!
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Agree with Rudy! Thanks Mr.A for the great post. I love learning!
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I agree to the fullest, and thank you, again, sir! There is much more for us to learn, and I would be grateful to learn as much as I can! As MSK said, we are all students here.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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That's a great point and I never even looked at it that way: just because a dog is aggressive does not make it game & vice versa.

Look forward to more of your posts!!


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Old 12-12-2013, 09:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hahaha great post there...... Can't say I disagree at all.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Great post! Thanks for sharing
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rex abernathy View Post
Yep, I'm from the old school, schooled by people like KIMSEY WOOD, Ronnie Hyde, even Maurice Carver. Doesn't make me anything, just telling where my perspective on bulldogs come from. I call them bulldogs affectionately, most younger ones are confused and say pits! Well they're just bulldogs to me. anyway I wanted to comment about the trait of gameness. Get that? Trait? Is it is or is it aint! To quote one of my favorite southern writers. To presume it's a trait is to agree that gameness is genetic. Therefore, the question I address is one I recently saw, and now can't find it! If gameness can be bred in can we lose it over time, or breed it out of them? Of course, you can breed it out, but that is not to say by not fighting dogs that they loose their gameness. If the genetic make up is present, well it's present. The question is, how do you know the dog is game if it is not tested? You don't. And if the genetic make up is there then, whether the dog is tested or not, the gameness is there. Many confuse dog aggression with gameness, big mistake! Totally different. Some game dogs are not aggressive at all and many aggressive dogs are certainly not game! So, in conclusion, if gameness is genetic, it is in the dog whether or not we fight them. It may not be aggressive, which is sometimes present and I believe may be both genetic and learned behavior. But, to the contrary I don't believe you can teach gameness, it is genetic! Not to say a dog will not go longer for a master that it loves! Gameness is genetic, but don't forget, all things equal in genetics, then come, conditioning, health, family life, relations, etc. So blood is important just as the man, or woman, behind the dog is important!
Yeah, a lot of the younger crowd confuse dog aggression with gameness. Gameness was the first thing bred for, but was the last thing seen in a fight. Bob Wallace coined the term "Pepsi Generation" when the barnstormers started popping up. Like a can of Pepsi, when it is shaken it explodes, but then runs flat after a little bit. So the game dogs had to have the power to withstand the first 30 minutes, and then the barnstormers would tire, and the game dog would go in for the kill. Some are stupid enough to think all it took was a game dog. If the dog didn;t have what it took to win, even if it was game, it was nothing. Had to have the power to compete....

Others think they can make a dog game. That is a crock of s^&t. They are born game or they are not, although a person could have a game dog and still lose! Carver used to say, "You can't see the heart, but you can hear it!" Thus in conditioning he would find the point of maximum stress. A dog can only go as far as its heart takes it. He would say to some, "We can give a dog to Raymond, and all we have to do is bet on the other dog! I could give him Ironhead and he would f^&k it up!" So without proper conditioning, gameness didn't matter. A dead game dog is worthless.

Common characteristics of game dogs? They are often silent, show no teeth, no wasting breath with growls (which are a sign of a cur dog!). In battle they were often head to head, toe to toe...they were where the action was. Stifle dogs were considered curs. Joe Corvino used to say he preferred a head dog before all else, for they like to be where the fireworks were.
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