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Old 02-18-2014, 02:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Prong collar or harness??

Pros and Cons?

Which do you all prefer?
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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For training, prong collar. For pulling, harness.
I use a flat buckle collar for Ecko, but he is already leash trained.
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Old 02-18-2014, 03:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
 

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Depends on the dog. Some dogs are "soft" and the prong creates anxiety and/or reactivity.
For my own dogs I tend to use, in order:
Prong
Choke
Flat
Head collar

Yes I am a dog trainer and its currently taboo to admit that you use anything other than treatstreatstreats, but the fact is, all dogs are different and you have to meet the dog where they're at and use what works.

If you have never used a prong I highly suggest having a trainer show you how to use it properly. If it isn't fitted right and you aren't popping at the right times, its going to be just another useless tool.
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Old 02-18-2014, 03:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think it depends as well what your goal is. I use a combination positive and corrective training. My dog is petrified of flags but dislikes other dogs. I don't want to correct him from his fearful reaction to flags but could need the prong if another dog was out so he wouldn't choke himself out on a flat buckle before he was trained that behaviors isn't acceptable. Look for a good trainer who is knowledgable about many training tools and styles to help pick what's best for your dog.


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Old 02-18-2014, 03:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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I am interested mainly for pulling, so that would make sense to use a harness. We are looking for a trainer with little luck. I would like to do at least one class (socialization) and some personal training.
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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use the tool that suits the job. some jobs need a little plastic hammer. some jobs need a 12 pound sledge hammer. just make sure you're using it properly and and you should have great results.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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If you got for a pulling, a prong will eventually work, but harness help the same way with less physical correction if you get a front facing harness. If you get the kind that clip on the back they will pull you down the street a hell of a lot easier than a flat buckle collar.

Here is a dog at the shelter I volunteer at. She has a martingale front facing harness. When i walk her I use 2 leashes one on the harness in the front and one attached to her collar. If she gets the right angle she could slip the harness and be off. Just to show you what style I mean, this is Buttercup (she is a doll)


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Old 02-18-2014, 11:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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I just don't like the choking sound, I usually stop and make her sit. Honestly i have no clue what the right way of doing it is! I need training advice for that as well. Trying my best at finding one of those that isn't Petsmart
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well here are 2 different examples of what I know. I am not a trainer so I will do my best to explain and take it for what you want lol They are basically the same thing, except one uses food and one uses corrections with or without food.

Before starting either your dog needs to learn to look at you. My dog is reactive, so i don't have time to waste giving a command, for my boy when I say his name I expect him to look at me. If you use a clicker or a word to mark correct behavior (I use both, but YES is my mark word). If you use a clicker, start by loading it up for your dog literally give treat then click (or YES! if no clicker). treat, click. treat, click. For like 20 or so treats. I use bits of string cheese and dehydrated liver. this gets them to associate the click with the reward. You do not want to bribe your dog, you want him to listen and then reward him. You need high value treats so your dog can smell them. After I would load the clicker up I Then I say my dogs name and wait for him to look me in the eye, then click and treat. wait for him to look away, say their name again, and when they look at your eye (NOT YOUR HAND WITH THE TREAT lol) you click and reward. DO that a few times a day and your dog will now look at you when you call his name.

For walking You would start the walk and when your dog got to the end of the lead, you change direction, go the opposite way and if he got to the end of the lead again, you turn around and go back the way you came. You may literally only get 50 feet the first few walks after being outside for 30 minutes lol. The key is to not give up and let them pull. You MUST last longer then they can lol

With a harness, the dog is used to leading with its chest, you are redirecting him to the side when they have a front harness. The dog tries to pull and now he has to walk crooked and cant pull easily. By using food your dog gets to the end of the lead you call his name, make kissy sounds lol, clear your throat whatever it is to get his attention when he looks at you you use the marker word/clicker and he will now go towards you for a reward. (treat pouches are very handy) and you lead him the other way (so you are kinda walking backwards).

The prong acts like a finger poking the dog like hey pup you aren't listening to me POKE. Some dogs need the poke, other dogs do not. the key is to figure out if your dog is hard or soft and its hard without someone who knows what they are doing. When I use my prong for walking, my dog isnt allowed beyond me, he must remain behind or besides me and he can only go the bathroom when I tell him to go. We have designated spots. He walks next to me, and if he starts to go to far, I pop his prong UP (a properly worn prong is important, my boys slips so I have a collar UNDER his prong to hold it in the right place and to attach in case the metal snaps on his prong there is a built in safety) When my boy starts to walk head a quick pop on his prong gets his attention back and in the proper walking position. But I started the same way, he would get to the end, I would pop and go the other way as soon as it tightened again I would turn around and go the other way, get tight again, you reverse direction. Eventually they understand the only way to go on a walk is with a loose leash.

Sorry if this is TMI, or if I was not clear. Its hard to describe which is why a trainer who knows multiple toolscan assist.
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Ames...thank you so much. You helped a lot. You explained it well. I also have been looking on YouTube a little, not that they know all. It was helpful though.

I do have a clicker, I tried the name thing with the clicker and a reward and it took a bit. Sounded like a broken record, nor
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Crap i accidentally hit send.

But she would always look at the reward more than my face. But for the first time she eventually picked up on it towards the end.

Now just to work on the leash thing.
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Glad it helped some! I need to see and read things a few different ways to get things to stick myself so I know how it is

Couple things to remember is when a dog responds correctly 9 out of 10 times they "get" it. You don't want to introduce new "tricks" until they get the one. My boy would focus on the treats. Really hard but make sure you only give the command ONCE. If you keep repeating yourself they are now trained to respond when they want, not when asked. I see it a LOT with "sit". People say sit. Then wait and say SIT. And then maybe say it again. If your dog knows the command but not sitting, he is ignoring you and that's not acceptable. Also a dog who knows commands inside is not reliable outside with distractions and smells. I take my boy to shopping plazas or human (not dog) parks to work on his focus and "look" commands. High traffic safe areas are best dog parks around me aren't fenced so we go to SIT IN THE CAR Only and work on it from the car. My boy used to battle cry when he saw a pup a football field away. He has come very far now. Makes me so proud of him.


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Old 02-19-2014, 01:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
 

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First thing I would teach this dog is how to pay attention to you. There's lots of ways to teach it. I do not put mine on a command because I want it to be a default behavior. One way I teach it is to hold a treat in my hand so the dog can sniff it and maybe even taste it but can't get to it. At some point they get frustrated and look at my face for a split second. Mark that and reward. Work up to holding the focus for a few seconds. Eventually you'll be able to get up to 30+ seconds.

You can also show the treats to the dog, then hold your arms out to the sides so he can't get it. But I don't like that method for most dogs because they will jump all over you trying to get those treats before they make the connection to look at your face.
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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my girl doesn't pull much with her harness, seems counter-intuitive but it helps. When she does start pulling its because she sees a cat or hears a dog growling from the other side of a fence. I always make her stop and sit down, then i stand in front of her to break her vision and make her look at me. Then we continue, i do that every single time she pulls. She's pretty much learned that pulling means we stop and i gotta stare at mom for a few seconds, which is even less fun than just casually strolling by and not pulling.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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We just went and bought a harness, I took her for a short walk and she seems to do better. Can't wait to try it out once this weather gets nice :/

We all have cabin fever!!!
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