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Old 04-27-2009, 10:03 PM   #91 (permalink)
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I think we should start a new thread about this subject (papers)
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:12 AM   #92 (permalink)
 
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There is nothing wrong with having and breeding unregistered stock. These are dogs that have handwritten pedigrees and that is just the same as a ukc registration paper that has a ped. These are not dogs with unknown peds being bred. Now I speak in general not about my personal dogs here. I know how you like to make asumptions.....
People paper hang all the time look at what happened to the gotti and RE line!
If you have registered stock then I think you should keep up with the paper trail but not all breeders do.

You had said that you can only show a dog with papers in show and weight pull. Not true. Maybe conformation but WP can be done by many venues without a pedigree from UKC or ADBA. You can also compete in Agility, Obedience, and rally in different venues without being fixed and with no registration.
UKC, AKC, ADBA, it's all about the money and not that I do not participate in those registries (I am the president of a UKC club) but it is not the end all be all. Your opinion is just that, and many do not agree with you. You try to lump BYB in with dogmen who did not register dogs.

Look at the GSD, Mal's or Dutch's. Dogs are being imported from Europe with handwritten peds or peds that will not be recognized in the US. I work closely with police dogs and Schutzhund dogs that we important and train for police work. These dogs are mostly unregistered for one reason or another and come from HUGE working kennels in Europe. Are these dogs not worthy of breeding because they do not have AKC papers? Bull Sh$$ Dogs with no registration are being bred all the time for working dogs. They are being imported/exported and no one is calling them BYB's. It's just they way things are sometimes. So you can think that only responsible breeders will register dogs with UKC, AKC, ADBA but truth is many dogs and breed are not being registered because it is not a big deal as along as you are keeping track of records with hand written peds.
I think that if dogs have registration you should keep up with it but if not I am not one to say you are wrong.

This has nothing to do with BYB's that a whole different can of worms.....
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:19 PM   #93 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by performanceknls View Post
There is nothing wrong with having and breeding unregistered stock.

There really is. You cant prove what is really bred into your dogs.


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These are dogs that have handwritten pedigrees and that is just the same as a ukc registration paper that has a ped. These are not dogs with unknown peds being bred.
It just doesnt make sense to breed two registered dogs, and not register the pups. Youre basically stopping the line at your breedings.


Quote:
Now I speak in general not about my personal dogs here. I know how you like to make asumptions.....
People paper hang all the time look at what happened to the gotti and RE line!
If you have registered stock then I think you should keep up with the paper trail but not all breeders do.

Thats where being and only dealing with reputable breeders is a great tool.


Quote:
You had said that you can only show a dog with papers in show and weight pull. Not true. Maybe conformation but WP can be done by many venues without a pedigree from UKC or ADBA.
Yes, you can show and pull in almost any organization with an unregistered dog. The only problem is you usually can not compete for titles, just in fun or novice classes.

Truthfully, the only titles that matter to most, are the ones from UKC or ADBA.


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You can also compete in Agility, Obedience, and rally in different venues without being fixed and with no registration.

The only part that sucks about that is there is no paperwork to put the titles on.


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UKC, AKC, ADBA, it's all about the money and not that I do not participate in those registries (I am the president of a UKC club) but it is not the end all be all. Your opinion is just that, and many do not agree with you. You try to lump BYB in with dogmen who did not register dogs.

Its pointless to breed registered dogs, and not register the pups. It dosent cost that much to register a litter, so there is no real reason not to do it.

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Look at the GSD, Mal's or Dutch's. Dogs are being imported from Europe with handwritten peds or peds that will not be recognized in the US. I work closely with police dogs and Schutzhund dogs that we important and train for police work. These dogs are mostly unregistered for one reason or another and come from HUGE working kennels in Europe. Are these dogs not worthy of breeding because they do not have AKC papers? Bull Sh$$ Dogs with no registration are being bred all the time for working dogs. They are being imported/exported and no one is calling them BYB's. It's just they way things are sometimes. So you can think that only responsible breeders will register dogs with UKC, AKC, ADBA but truth is many dogs and breed are not being registered because it is not a big deal as along as you are keeping track of records with hand written peds.

I would trust a certified pedigree from a reputable breeder over a handwritten one any day. I could care less how they do things in Europe. We're talking about apbt's here, not Germans or Belgians.


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I think that if dogs have registration you should keep up with it but if not I am not one to say you are wrong.

This has nothing to do with BYB's that a whole different can of worms.....
Why screw up history? The best breeders have registered their litters for over 100 years now. Obviously they wanted us to do the same. Its just a great tool for tracking and studying to see what worked well then.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:37 PM   #94 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by pimpidypimp View Post
I'll tell you why I dont, Theres no need too, Its a rip off, papers get hung,

Thats why you deal with a well known, reputable breeder. It dosent cost much at all to register a dog.



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Adba now registers Amstaffs,
ADBA has registered Amstaffs for years. They are actually an all breed registery now. Just like the UKC, AKC, & NKC.


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somtimes the best dogs are one's nobody kows about, (ya know like a secret)

The only "secret" dogs I know of dont do any weight pull, obedience work, or show. They usually just sit in the back yard on a huge chain with the owner talking about how "badass" he is.


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lets see I could add more like> I dont sell dogs to the public,
Still not a good reason to not register your litters. Also not a good reason to breed unregistered dogs.

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I dont show dogs, I dont wieght pull,
Ok, I understand the "secret" dogs now. So why do you own and breed these dogs?

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hold up theres more> like who is Honeybunches real sire
Does Honeybunch look like she could have been an Irish Setter mix to you?

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or what about CH Cowboy he's got 2 differant pedigrees.
Could have been a mistake(humans make those) or just someone whos jealous trying to screw things up.

Must have been handwritten.


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More I dont feel the need to have the FED's Crawlin up my ass,
The only reason you would have the feds "crawlin up your ass" is if you were doing something illegal.

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Also why am I gonna pay a regististry to do what I can do with a pencil and a piece of notebook paper
To be a reputable breeder who is striving to better the breed. To honor what the men who created this breed wanted. To have certified proof of your dogs lineage. To help out the future generations of dog men.

To preserve history.
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Last edited by Rock Creek Kennels; 04-28-2009 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:28 PM   #95 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by performanceknls View Post
Pimpidypimp great post. But there is not point in trying to share an op with this guy. we will just have to sit back and see what snappy comment he comes up with now

People who think they know what theyre talking about, usually consider the facts as "snappy comments".
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Old 04-29-2009, 02:09 PM   #96 (permalink)
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This thread seems to me to be just going around and around and really not accomplishing a whole heck of a lot so I'm closing it. RCK if you have a problem with another member take it to Dave( admin). But in all actuallity it just seems to me you are nit-picking.



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