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Old 03-30-2014, 06:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
 

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Random Signs of Agression, Help!

My roommate and I both have dogs. His is a 2 year old staffordshire mix, mine is an 8 month old red nose, both males. I have had my puppy for about 4 months now and so far so good. My roommates dog has been have anxiety problems and will start shaking and panting for long periods of time and we won't see him for a while and then he'll stop. Both the dogs get along fairly well the majority of the time, sometimes they'll get a little aggressive while they're playing but nothing too concerning. Just last night we had to break up a very bad fight between the two of them. After that my 8 month old puppy wouldn't even look at our other dog and it seemed like our older dog was in attack mode and just wanted to pounce the puppy all night and hurt him. I woke up this morning to let my puppy out he ran up wiggled his tail licked our other dogs face and they were completely normal all day long. Well just again about 20 minutes ago, our older dog randomly gets close to my puppy starts growling at him and my puppy runs to the corner and tucks his tail between his legs and wouldn't look back. Any ideas on why this aggression would be coming out of nowhere. My puppy will literally do nothing and the older dog will just snap and start seeing red.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Sounds like the dogs need to start being separated in a crate & rotate type of situation.

One thing is bugging me though, has your friend's dog been to the vet and been diagnosed with anxiety issues? The way you're describing the dog with the shaking and panting and hiding, he sounds like he could be in pain. I thought in most cases anxious dogs want to feel safe and normally would go sit with their owner?
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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If the older dog is in pain, he could get snappy because he doesn't want the puppy to hurt him.

I'd take the older one to the vet and get it looked at.

If the vet says he's all cream, I agree with Sarah, crate and rotate.

we are what we do repeatedly. excellence is then not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:56 AM   #4 (permalink)
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once you have a problem between 2 male dogs,

unles you 'break' one of them, which i would NEVER, NEVER, recommend doing,

they will not ever get along, and if your not careful,

you'll come home to a dead dog.

please answer this tho,

where in the world did you get the information,

that you could keep 2 male bulldogs together?

because if you could, you wouldnt have 'bulldogs'
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Old 03-30-2014, 01:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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I agree a vet visit is due. Also keep them separated before serious injuries occur.

I posted a good read on crating and rotating.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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My opinion the 2 year old needs confidence. 2 years is not old. Your room mates dog is not your responsibility, but you's should take them out together, meet other people and dogs together.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
 

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I wouldn't risk keeping them together and trying to force them to get along
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon from NJ View Post
My opinion the 2 year old needs confidence. 2 years is not old. Your room mates dog is not your responsibility, but you's should take them out together, meet other people and dogs together.
That is some pretty risky advice to give to a dog that is mixed with a breed well known to be DA! The puppy I could see taking out to socialize but the older dog is displaying some pretty concerning behavior, at BEST he is becoming DA, there could be some health issues as well, that dog has no business making playdates in the near future IMO.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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It's worth trying since you are living together. Just because your room mates dog showed "some" aggression doesn't mean it needs to be isolated for the rest of it's life. Like I said, go on walks together, meet other people and dogs, on leashes of course so you have control, but don't use the leash to agitate the dogs. You can even hold 1 dog while another gets it's sniffs in.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:24 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon from NJ View Post
It's worth trying since you are living together. Just because your room mates dog showed "some" aggression doesn't mean it needs to be isolated for the rest of it's life. Like I said, go on walks together, meet other people and dogs, on leashes of course so you have control, but don't use the leash to agitate the dogs. You can even hold 1 dog while another gets it's sniffs in.

Okay... let's break it down then.......



Quote:
Originally Posted by nickqw14 View Post
My roommates dog has been have anxiety problems and will start shaking and panting for long periods of time and we won't see him for a while and then he'll stop.

Just last night we had to break up a very bad fight between the two of them. After that my 8 month old puppy wouldn't even look at our other dog and it seemed like our older dog was in attack mode and just wanted to pounce the puppy all night and hurt him.

Well just again about 20 minutes ago, our older dog randomly gets close to my puppy starts growling at him and my puppy runs to the corner and tucks his tail between his legs and wouldn't look back. Any ideas on why this aggression would be coming out of nowhere. My puppy will literally do nothing and the older dog will just snap and start seeing red.
In bold are my red flags... do you consider this "some" aggression? Granted I haven't met the dog and maybe there are some signs or triggers the owner is missing but going by this post alone, this is a very dangerous situation for the puppy.

Why on earth would you then take this UNPREDICTABLE dog out to meet, and potentially put in harm's way, other dogs? The owners have no control over things at home, they will have even less in the scenario you are giving. At the VERY least they should contact a trainer before attempting this, preferably a behaviorist with experience in aggressive dogs. And I have a sneaking suspicion the trainer will refer them to a vet first and foremost.

ETA: If the older dog is already feeling vulnerable from pain/anxiety, asking him to turn his back on another dog and forcibly restraining him while the dog "gets its sniffs in" is really going to set this dog off in a big way. It's setting him up for failure and will almost certainly make the issues worse!
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Last edited by Sarah~; 03-31-2014 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ok, I'm sorry, but I have been chewing on this all morning and I feel the need to post again This will be long, bear with me...

Cannon, I'm not trying to pick on you or anything, honest. I can understand and appreciate why you are giving the advice you are. On the surface, to most people, it may seem like good advice. I want to go into more detail on my thinking process as to how I came to the conclusion I did, in hopes you will be able to understand where I am coming from. Hopefully you'll see I'm not just talking out of my butt here!

I'm going to go into some doggy basics, more for the OP's benefit. I don't want to insult anyone's intelligence, I'm sure a lot of you guys already know this stuff.

What do we know about this older dog and the situation?
1. He is a 2 year old male possible bully breed mix.
2. There is a possibility of anxiety issues/pain or illness, based on the description of shaking, panting, and hiding.
3. The OP describes a random, "bad" attack on an 8 month old pup, and random displays of aggression thereafter.

What can we safely assume and take away from these things?
1. The dog is now likely a fully mature male bully breed mix. We ALL know this is prime time for DA behaviors to show up.
2. The description, to me, could be interpreted either way to be caused by anxiety or pain. In either case of anxiety or pain, the dog could be feeling very vulnerable. The pup is starting to mature into an adult male, losing his "puppy pass", and is likely, in the dog's mind, becoming a threat to him. (We all know the saying, "fight or flight!") What concerns me is that usually, the dog who is afraid or in pain will only be aggressive if he feels he is in a situation he cannot escape. In the scenarios from the OP, it seems like the older dog is seeking the younger one out (ex. "our older dog randomly gets close to my puppy starts growling at him").
3. The way the OP keeps talking about the "random"-ness of the incidents, is what suggests to me the dog is unpredictable.

If the dog is in pain, the vet check will quickly spot it and correct it.

If the dog is anxious, insecure, I can see why Cannon would suggest trying to build the dog's confidence by having him build some positive associations with other dogs. For the younger dog, this may not be a bad idea, to help with any bad vibes toward dogs after the attack. I say MAY because I really know almost nothing about the younger dog's temperament.

With the older dog, at first glance, that advice might not look so bad. But the unpredictability, possible mental/medical problems, and the possibility of DA are all big factors at play here.

The fact the older dog is seeking the younger one out to fight to me shows dog reactivity, if not outright DA. The OP seems to be fairly inexperienced with aggressive dogs (hence this topic ). Is this a dog that you want on the street, in public, in the hands of an amateur, with the advice to force an aggressive (fearful?) animal to submit to another dog invading his space?

Basically: Is the risk to the OP's and someone else's dog worth the reward?

In my opinion........ no. I think the OP needs help from a professional who can lay eyes and hands on the dog, and give OP the tools he/she needs to manage the situation. All we have is a single post to go on! Assuming everything OP wrote is true, I think it would be completely irresponsible to suggest anything OTHER than a professional.
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