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Old 12-11-2006, 09:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
 

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Breeding????

I Have Read And Heard So Much Over The Years On Linebreeding, Inbreedng, And Crossbreeding. But What Exactley Is An Example Of Each. For Instance......mother To Son, Father To Daughter, Litter Mates, Etc..... What Is The Best And Worst Case Senerio???
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by velvet
I Have Read And Heard So Much Over The Years On Linebreeding, Inbreedng, And Crossbreeding. But What Exactley Is An Example Of Each. For Instance......mother To Son, Father To Daughter, Litter Mates, Etc..... What Is The Best And Worst Case Senerio???
Im no expert concerning this since ive never bred a litter,but what i can gather is this.Linebredding sets type in a dog as well as inbreeding.say you want to breed dogs for high drive or big head,size,gameness or what ever and you also want your own line of dogs.this is just a example,you'd take a high drive male and a high drive female from diffrent lines and breed them toghether,then you'd take the best of these offspring and breed them back to either mother or father then breed to another line out side of what your trying to create,then back into your initial stock culling infierior dogs,after a while you'll will be stricktly line breeding/inbreeding to preserve desired traits with out outside influence,this will set a type for your particular strain.The problems will arise when dogs are to tightly linebred they start passing on genetic defects to there offspring,then usualy a outcross or two can cure that,then back to the line breeding.as for inbreeding and line breeding deppresions,these are the results of over doing it with out occasional out crosses,this is how we initialy got the rednose and blue dogs as well as dogs that show up with other pigmentation issues such as blue eyes etc...Of course this is just a round about over view of the practice,im sure others can correct my mistakes and or elaberate a bit.......
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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nice post cane
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
 

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thanks for the info. i guess my thinking wasnt so bad after all. i have had several litters and have seemed to breed just the way you stated. now i have what i want in a dog. thanks again for the info.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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First great post Cane... you got a good eye for a person that doesnt breed.


The easiest way to say it in "laymans terms" is this-

Linebreeding- this is the basic and most utilized type of breeding the basic thought is this: by bringing the blood of any particular dog into the offpsing as many times as possible (this CAN be overdone) you are more likely to produce dogs that carry the traits of that dog. When you see puppies being liset as 2X, 3X, or 4X this dog or that dog. thats what it means that dog is line bred and that particular dog will show up in the pedigree that many times.

Line breeding is a really good thing, but can easily be overdone. Because while you are going to be getting traits from that dog, you will also get the faults, and repeated linebreeding can actually create new ones. Lets look at the gottiline dogs, because they are a clear case of linebreeding gone wrong. The problem is that the entire bloodline is based off of one dog West side Kennels Notorious Juan Gotty. Gotty is himself a linebred dog on showtime(2 x) and raider II (2X). so when people are breeding dogs that are 4X gotty they are actually breeding dogs that are 8X showtime and raider.
I have seen litters that are as high as 7 times Juan gotty.... thats just ridiculous.
an example of line breeding is to take Diesel(my dog) and breed him to 2 different females then take a female from one and a male from the other... that litter is then 2X Diesel. its more likely those pups will be like him beucase of that.

inbreeding- is a LOT different. It can be used much like linebreeding but it is a VERY powerful outcome and is not recommended for a novice. Basically you are going to want to do this only on very scattered pedigrees to strengthen them and then you must immediately do an outcross... to a completely different pedigree with the blood or you can get all kinds of illness, defects, or even mutations.

this would be Diesel being bred to a female and then taking him to his own daughter. Or taking a male and female from the same litter and letting them breed, or a son from the litter breeding to his own dam. all are VERY risky.. I would NEVER recommend doing them.

crossbreeding- Is how a good many of our breeds were formed takeing two well bred specimens of two different breeds and letting them mate, the ideal outcome woul be the best traits of both breeds.. this can be the case as can be seen in a good many bandog programs. my personal favorite the neo pit cross is a phenominal dog in look and ability.
this can of course not work out that way too.. as demonstrated by all the crappy fad breeds.

hope that kind of helps.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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This pretty well sums it up
Best explanation Ive seen.



http://gamedogs.com/pedigrees.htm
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Last edited by OldFortKennels; 12-12-2006 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
 

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that does sum it up. thanks. i have read the book by ed faron( the complete gamedog book) but that simplified it. thanks again!!!!!
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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hmmm...

Good question, and good answers!!!

Being from Kentucky, I can tell you all you want to know about inbreeding!!!

LOL, just kidding. We ain't all that bad!!!
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
 

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I Have Some Kinfolk From Kentucky. Is That Why They Wont Come Home For The Holidays................ha Ha
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
 

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The real crap shoot is breeding one breed to another breed to try and take the best from both breeds and combine them,creating a dog that has traits that both prior breeds lacked,this tactic is called hybrid vigor,many people dispute hybrid vigor as being complete b.s,the fondation of there claim being that a hybrid is the crossing of two diffrent species[donkey/horse],and all dogs are the same species,canine familarise[sp].
Say you took a neapolitian mastiff and a apbt from game lines and wanted to take the desireed trait of drive,gameness and wind from the pit,and you wanted to take the size power and protective nature from the neo,the pups from such a breeding are considered f1's[foundation 1]the crap shoot comes in when the breeding back fires and insted of inheriting both positive traits from the foundation stock the pups inherit possably the neos hip and health problems mixed with its natural suspicion of strangers mixed with the apbts aggression and drive,thats why a considerable amount of culling must be essential for such a breeding.
In the breeding of the bandogge inbreedeing is utilized much sooner.in the breeding of the apbt theres a general set type with perdictable temperments and size drive etc apbt breeding requires less inbreeding i believe.
Each generation of breeding in the bandooge is labled as follows,f1,f2,F3 AND SO ON,BY F5 THE TYPE IS GENERALY SET AND BY THE 10TH GENERATION THE DOG BREEDS PRETTY MUCH TRUE IF THE INBREEDING,OUTCROSSING AND LINE BREEDING IS DONE CORRECTLY.And just like gameness,great size is also easly lost so breeders of these dogs must focus on size and drive and health
just like the apbt breeders,its just in the oppisite direction.
finished bandogge come in two types usually,the apbt type.

and the mastiff type.
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBull View Post
First great post Cane... you got a good eye for a person that doesnt breed.


The easiest way to say it in "laymans terms" is this-

Linebreeding- this is the basic and most utilized type of breeding the basic thought is this: by bringing the blood of any particular dog into the offpsing as many times as possible (this CAN be overdone) you are more likely to produce dogs that carry the traits of that dog. When you see puppies being liset as 2X, 3X, or 4X this dog or that dog. thats what it means that dog is line bred and that particular dog will show up in the pedigree that many times.

Line breeding is a really good thing, but can easily be overdone. Because while you are going to be getting traits from that dog, you will also get the faults, and repeated linebreeding can actually create new ones. Lets look at the gottiline dogs, because they are a clear case of linebreeding gone wrong. The problem is that the entire bloodline is based off of one dog West side Kennels Notorious Juan Gotty. Gotty is himself a linebred dog on showtime(2 x) and raider II (2X). so when people are breeding dogs that are 4X gotty they are actually breeding dogs that are 8X showtime and raider.
I have seen litters that are as high as 7 times Juan gotty.... thats just ridiculous.
an example of line breeding is to take Diesel(my dog) and breed him to 2 different females then take a female from one and a male from the other... that litter is then 2X Diesel. its more likely those pups will be like him beucase of that.

inbreeding- is a LOT different. It can be used much like linebreeding but it is a VERY powerful outcome and is not recommended for a novice. Basically you are going to want to do this only on very scattered pedigrees to strengthen them and then you must immediately do an outcross... to a completely different pedigree with the blood or you can get all kinds of illness, defects, or even mutations.

this would be Diesel being bred to a female and then taking him to his own daughter. Or taking a male and female from the same litter and letting them breed, or a son from the litter breeding to his own dam. all are VERY risky.. I would NEVER recommend doing them.

crossbreeding- Is how a good many of our breeds were formed takeing two well bred specimens of two different breeds and letting them mate, the ideal outcome woul be the best traits of both breeds.. this can be the case as can be seen in a good many bandog programs. my personal favorite the neo pit cross is a phenominal dog in look and ability.
this can of course not work out that way too.. as demonstrated by all the crappy fad breeds.

hope that kind of helps.
I just found this post today. I got 2 APBT puppies back in October. While at the vet one day I overheard 2 people talking and saying, " Yea he's 4X this and 4X that." I had no clue what they were referring too lol. I've been looking for a while for someone to explain this and found your post! Thanks for the information! I copied and saved it for reference. Thanks again for explaining this even though this post is 11 years old!!

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