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Old 06-08-2010, 11:55 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Interesting, but from the facts stated in this article, there are a lot of presumptions being made about this particular owner. Socialization is key in any breed, but a lot of pets are only socialized to the extent of their everyday surroundings, is that right, definitely not and the result can be devastating.

I definitely think losing something you love due to a mistake on your part is a harsh reminder of that mistake. See the thing is I love my dogs and if I lost one due to the natural life circle is hard enough, but if I lost one to something I did wrong, or a mistake that would be devastating and no punishment would be as bad as the fact I let my family member down and he or she lost it's life.

Difference between collecting animals and loving your animals I guess.

Side note I have had this breed for 15 years and never has one of mine ended up in AC, only been in the paper due to a meet the breed classroom trip. If some way one of my house dogs got loose say through the front door, opened by one of my children, friends, or whatever ( I do not become a bad home overnight, nor do I become a felon) luckily for me none of my dogs would attack a person, but they would a dog.

If for a moment they showed aggression towards a person good night sweet bulldog. There is a difference in my opinion in being responsible and being irrational.

Since this is the end of this conversation thanks for posting, and sharing your opinion.
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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"Difference between collecting animals and loving your animals I guess. "

Please do not make an assumption on my or anyone elses personal dealings with their animals... You do not have any idea what myself or anyone has put into their animals or whether they love them or not...

"Side note I have had this breed for 15 years and never has one of mine ended up in AC"

Thats very good!! However I have owned this breed for almost 30 years now and none of mine have ever ended up at AC either.

No offense but 15 years with this breed much less 30 years give you all the knowledge... Please understand that IMO no one will know everything about this breed ever especially since it unfortunately changes consistly... I still learn things after this many years... It is something everyone should try to do...

And the only one who made presumptions here was you... I only gave you my opinion on the answers for the scenario YOU put together... Just a thought...
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Im not going to get into the whole I'm a better breed owner than you debate, as it will not solve anything. I do not know everything, nor have I claimed the contrary. Just for the reading public, I have OWNED this breed for roughly 15 but have worked and kept this wonderful breed for quite longer. I would still consider myself a student of the breed but in this particular thread I feel I graduated that course awhile ago lol.

The comment about love, was directed at the ASSUMPTION that she has not been punished enough, if her dog was put down. I relayed how the loss of a animal would effect me, personally.

In regards to collecting animals. You took this as a shot, so be it. If the description does not match you, then keep it moving as I was not speaking on you personally as I do not know you.

As far as presumptions, you said the lady was lazy and careless, however I did not read enough details in the above article to assume those statements as facts, just as I did not read enough to find the dog owner criminally negligent. That was my main disagreement with your statements.

Breaking it down farther, my arguement for putting the dog down was based on the desired temperment of a breed as a whole. Which you then wanted me to not include breeds which the temperment standard allows for HA, which is my entire point in saying that a dog that has been bred as a breed as a whole which allows for that aggression would be judged differently by myself. A APBT is not a breed that allows for HA so down it would go. I would consider putting down a dog that's breed description requires that it work in a pack, if said dog was overly dog aggressive, as it does not fit the description of the breed. DA however is not the same liability and altering the animal would suffice in most cases.

Overall the dog should be euthanized, but I do not agree on charging the owner as a criminal unless she knowingly knew the dog was aggressive and did not take suitable steps to contain the animal, or unless she intentionally set the dog on the victims.

Wow it's been awhile, how exciting lol!




Last edited by BullyTheKid; 06-08-2010 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:22 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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"Im not going to get into the whole I'm a better breed owner than you debate, as it will not solve anything."

I would not get into that argument at all either my only point was that it doesnt matter how long you have been "in" this breed there is always something to learn.

"As far as presumptions, you said the lady was lazy and careless"

My statement was made and I still stand behind it simply because she obviously did not contain or socialize the dog properly thus leading me to believe that she did not "do her research" before she aquired this breed.

"Which you then wanted me to not include breeds which the temperment standard allows for HA"

I stated breeds that were considered "protective"
The Doberman, The GSD yes they were breed with HA as a known trait, however a APBT getting out and attacking a four year old and a GSD attacking a drug dealer in a drug bust are two opposite situations. This is why I chose not to include those breeds. However, if a privately owned Dobbie or GSD got out of its owners yard and attacked a four year old unprovoked and not on its own property it should be euthed as well.

As far as charging the owner, lets just say we have a difference of opinion on that...

Bottom line here is this dog was undersocialized and not contained properly and therefore it will suffer the consequences for a situation that ultimately the owner is responsible for... Another APBT in the news and euthed because of an irresponsible owner... Sad really...
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Responsible owners do not let their dog roam or get lose. They take time to make sure 2 yr olds don't open the front door (I have a 2 yr old and have taken precautions so as this will not ever happen), fence boards don't rot, dogs don't sneak past them when bringing in groceries, etc. Responsible owners are smarter than their dogs!
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BullyTheKid View Post
The problem in my opinion, is that some dogs that bite are owned by responsible owners. Take for instance the case in question. We have no details on the height of the fence, the material used or.. Chain link, privacy, or concrete. No details on the gate, whether there was a lock, or someone let the dog out. We are missing a lot of details.

Let me argue that the fence was a 5 1/2 foot concrete wall, the dog has never jumped the wall and the owner has no idea the dog could if it chose to. The fence has always kept the animal in and there has never been a escape. The dog has not been raised around children and the owner does not plan to have any. The dog a well rounded pet has not had sufficient contact with other people and for the most part remains at the residence.

Is this owner irresponsible? Negligent? A criminal? To be prosecuted at the full extent of the law?

I will say, as a individual who has donated and raised money for victims of attacks, my heart goes out to the little girl, and the dog should be put down. Why? Not because of the owners negligence but because this dog one bit a child, and even more than that it is a horrible example of the breed, as it is opposite of the most important aspect of being a APBT in my eyes.

As far as the owner, who could be a good citizen and not a street criminal, I think the lost of her beloved pet will serve as punishment.

I will say that repeat offenders should be charged as criminals, when a dog that has attacked and deemed dangerous attacks again. That is true negligence, and should be charged as such.

Stricter laws rarely accomplish what lawmakers think they will. IMO.

As far as BSL, if it were a fair scale but lawmakers will focus on dogs they deem as dangerous, so you guess which will be targeted the 50 pound Border Collie or the 50 pound APBT.
Really good points. And I agree that repeat offenders should be charged with negligence.
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:56 AM   #22 (permalink)
 

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The dog needs put down asap . End of story. A violent reaction such as this thank god only ended in stitches . I love my dogs more than anything but that doesnt give anything the right to hurt/maim anything else. They put violent offenders in jail and or mental intitutions as there is no such thing for dogs they need to be removed from society if they are dangerous to society. The lawyer and the owner are completley irresponsible and uncaring for trying to save this dog.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:18 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I think a lot of people who own this breed(the newer people) are afraid to even walk their dog in public,cause of the misconception this breed holds. Let alone socialize it.
I admit, I was scared of my dog meeting new people. Souly on the fact that I have a little pain in the ass dog, who hates everything. I am still working on not feeling so tense when Bruno goes up to someone (mostly the elderly and children.)
I want him to meet all kinds of people,but don;t want him to feel me getting tense, cause it sends the wrong message.
I need to relax haha~ he really has no problem with anyone so far.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:19 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xiahko View Post
I think a lot of people who own this breed(the newer people) are afraid to even walk their dog in public,cause of the misconception this breed holds. Let alone socialize it.
I admit, I was scared of my dog meeting new people. Souly on the fact that I have a little pain in the ass dog, who hates everything. I am still working on not feeling so tense when Bruno goes up to someone mostly the elderly and children.
I want him to meet all kinds of people,but don;t want him to feel me getting tense, cause it sends the wrong message.
I need to relax haha~
If you are not comfortable with your dog meeting new people why do you have him? You need to trust a dog 100 %
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:22 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I was saying when I first had him(hence the "was"), cause I was new to the breed, and didn't know %^$ about their temperaments.
I'm just scared some kid is gonna pull his tail and he'll freak. I'm still working on getting him trained on, "tail touching is ok".
He doesn't like it. He wont bite, but he freaks a bit,and tries to run.
And last time he met an old lady,he was ok, but she made a slight odd movement, and he kinda jumped a bit. It just startled him,but it made me call it a day, and take him home.

that was his first time meeting an elderly person though. His second time he was all wiggles.

Last edited by Xiahko; 06-09-2010 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:30 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xiahko View Post
I was saying when I first had him(hence the "was"), cause I was new to the breed, and didn't know %^$ about their temperaments.
I'm just scared some kid is gonna pull his tail and he'll freak. I'm still working on getting him trained on, "tail touching is ok".
He doesn't like it. He wont bite, but he freaks a bit,and tries to run.
And last time he met an old lady,he was ok, but she made a slight odd movement, and he kinda jumped a bit. It just startled him,but it made me call it a day, and take him home.

that was his first time meeting an elderly person though. His second time he was all wiggles.
I see, sometimes I wonder why people get pits.
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:20 AM   #27 (permalink)
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What's that suppose to mean?
Seriously are you always causing trouble? I see nothing but negative comments on every board you post on.
Why do you have one may I ask? Since you seem to be the 'perfect dog trainer/owner"

You know there was a time when you knew crap about this breed too. So stop being so negative to the people who are trying to learn how to be responsible owners,and not make mistakes.

Last edited by Xiahko; 06-10-2010 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:57 AM   #28 (permalink)
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What's that suppose to mean?
Seriously are you always causing trouble? I see nothing but negative comments on every board you post on.
Why do you have one may I ask? Since you seem to be the 'perfect dog trainer/owner"

You know there was a time when you knew crap about this breed too. So stop being so negative to the people who are trying to learn how to be responsible owners,and not make mistakes.
I am just always curious when people say they were afraid of a breed yet still got one, happens with other breeds too. I never said I was perfect. I am actually being nice lately, even though I have strong feelings about people who are new to the breed refuse advice, want to jump into the breed full force rescuing or taking on a ton of dogs. I was way frustrated when you rehomed a dog so soon but I thought hey he/she is new I will just try to help but maybe you just dont want it. Either way I will avoid your posts so not to upset ya

Last edited by gamer; 06-10-2010 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:03 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I am always asking for advice. I never refuse it, even if I don't like it.
I did not re home the dog the same day I got it. I had the dog a few days,and knew right a way that it wouldn't work out.
Don't you think i feel bad that I couldn't keep the dog? Of course I do, but I wasn't going to endanger my animals by leaving them in a situation I knew I wasn't ready to handle.
I need to make sure that all the animals here will be in a safe home environment. I'm not going to just keep a dog, cause I got attached to it,if it means it could do harm to the animal itself.
The dog needed to be in a bigger place with a dog who was not the same gender and age as she was, or be in a home as an only dog.

I am also not afraid of the breed, I was afraid of the unknown. He was a new dog, and I didn't know how he was going to act in certain situations,but I chose to socialize him,and not only is he learning, I'm learning along with him. I'm sorry if that makes me a bad owner.

Last edited by Xiahko; 06-10-2010 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:06 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xiahko View Post
I am always asking for advice. I never refuse it, even if I don't like it.
I did not re home the dog the same day I got it. I had the dog a few days,and knew right a way that it wouldn't work out.
Don't you think i feel bad that I couldn't keep the dog? Of course I do, but I wasn't going to endanger my animals by leaving them in a situation I knew I wasn't ready to handle.
I need to make sure that all the animals here will be in a safe home environment. I'm not going to just keep a dog, cause I got attached to it,if it means it could do harm to the animal itself.
The dog needed to be in a bigger place with a dog who was not the same gender and age as she was, or be in a home as an only dog.
That whole post wasnt pertaining to you sorry. Meh lets just move along, I am not here to argue, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings will try not to do it again.
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