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Old 07-03-2010, 02:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by coppermare View Post
Red nose pits were breed in Ireland
and Black/Blue nose pit bulls were
breed in England
I think while the OFRN (Old Family Red Nose) strain is said to be traced back to Ireland, that doesn't mean that they all had red noses. I think the strain just used to throw red noses fairly regularly (hence the name).

As for black/blue nosed dogs coming from England, I've never heard that. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a black nosed dog according to the standard. Any other nose colour is considered a fault. Being that the APBT was formed using the SBT as a foundation, I'd imagine that most APBTs had black noses. I've never seen a blue nosed stafford, even one with a blue coat.

I think the whole "blue nose pit" thing is more associated with bullies.
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by pitbullmamanatl View Post
There is no "rare" pit bull color. And the color of a dog's nose does not indicate it is a certain "type" of pit bull. Color is simply an expression of genetic code concerning coat color.

It might surprise you to learn that today the so called "rare blue pit bull" is in fact not rare, and not a pit bull! The blue color is a dilute of black, and occurs in the American Staffordshire breed. How it popped up in those dogs is any one's guess. Blue is a mastiff color, not a bulldog color. (There are no blue English bulldogs, but the English mastiff did used to come in blue, as do some other mastiff breeds). (Diane Jessup)

Here is what Louis Colby has to say about the "blue" dogs, and I can't think of any better authority: "As a boy growing up, and listening to multiple conversations between my father and visitors such as Collagan, Heinzl Vose, Donovan, and other dogmen from all over the country..never did the word blue appear. There never was a blue Colby dog in my father's yard, nor mine.To my knowledge there was never a blue colored dog reported in any match or sporting event."


Colby dogs are a picture of perfection, in my opinion. John Colby bred dogs from 1889 to 1941, boasting close to 5000 dogs in his lifetime. When Colby dogs were first becoming popular, dog men of the day were a very close-knit group of people and only passed dogs down to family members etc; however, John Colby broke that closeness and tradition when he began offering stud services and puppies to the "common” person. Until Colby, dog men kept their dog's pedigree a guarded secret. John Colby was a charter member of the Staffordshire Club of America; in addition, he also had a hand in establishing it. The infamous Colby's "Primo" was used as a standard for the breed when the AKC finally accepted the breed on its studbooks. Colby's wife was president of the club for a period and she worked with the AKC during the screening process when they accepted the APBT into their studbooks under the name Staffordshire bull terrier. Louis Colby, one of John Colby's sons, continued the work his father started with the breed and still produces some of the greatest APBTs I have ever seen. The Colby dogs of today that Louis produces can trace their lineage all the way back to his father's original dogs, first bred in the 1800s.



Colby Dogs


The following is a tribute to one of the greatest strains alive today.

The Colby Line
written by By Indian Sonny

Mr John P Colby was an active breeder for many years and produced some of the best dogs of his time. Much of his foundation stock was from the Gas House and Burke strains, as were the dogs of many other breeders. The difference in the quality of the dogs Mr Colby produced was the result of breeding principles he employed. Also, Mr Colby in my opinion possessed a very important attribute, which I refer to as a gift.

Mr Colby practised a simplified version of genetics, Best to Best, selective breeding

Best to Best does not mean performing dogs alone. It entails all aspects of the dogs, from performance to pedigree. The most obvious qualities would be gameness, biting power, talent, stamina and a great bloodline. A bloodline is the result of a breeders influence.

Over the years dogs bred by Mr Colby began to exhibit physical and mental characteristics such as conformation, colour and gameness which distinguished them. These dogs were then referred to as Colby Dogs. Thus we have the Colby Bloodline. People were proud to say, "This here is a pure Colby dog". This sounds simple; and it leads people to ask; why there were not more top breeders? I believe deciding on what is Best to Best is the key.

I'm not sure that every dog Mr Colby bred to was Dead game; and I'm equally sure he did not breed to every Dead game dog he owned. This is where the gift comes in. It seems to be an in-born sense or ability. I believe most outstanding accomplishments have been made by men who were endowed with a gift for their respective fields.

I do not believe that man knows enough about genetics at this time to produce great animals; and he most certainly didn't know enough in the days of Mr Colby. Race horse people spend millions of dollars a year, trying to produce great horses, with only marginal success. Similarly, there is no pattern for producing Great dogs.


The most essential qualities a breeder may possess are; dedication, a gift, a knowledge of Best to Best, and money might come in handy. If a breeder combines these attributes he is likely to produce, with luck, a great strain of dogs.

It doesn't take too much effort to recall the great Colby dogs of the past. These dogs were bred from the pit and for the pit.

But all of this brings us to a very important question; When a strain of dogs that were once highly regarded, such as Colby's, stops producing consistently good pit dogs, is this strain still to be considered good? I have heard people say, "I know he's a cur, but the blood is there". While this is true in many cases, I wonder how long we can continue to breed to curs and hope to produce game pit dogs.

What is good blood and how long will it remain good if we continue to breed to dogs, who do not possess the qualities of their ancestors? While great breeders can breed to dogs who themselves do not exhibit good qualities; can the average breeder afford to take this gamble?

I have seen strains of dogs that have not produced dogs fitting this description for many years, and people who are active in the sport refer to them as good blood or good brood stock. Many seem to proceed under the assumption, that once a bloodline is good it remains good forever. Many well-meaning people have continued to breed Colby dogs exclusively, thinking all that was necessary to preserve the quality of the strain, was to breed to a dog that had the name Colby on his pedigree.

I believe that we have to continuously strive to improve the strain, in order to keep it as good as it was or is. It's an accepted theory, that in order for an institution to continue, it must change and continuously seek to improve. To preserve a bloodline, there is more required than just breeding to dogs whose pedigree shows a particular name. Change is required in order to prevent change in the quality of dogs produced. The Colby strain was developed by change.


I have heard people say, that the dogs of yesteryear were gamer than those of today. Could it be, in some cases, because we have tried to play Pat and in doing so have lost ground. The people that have bred Colby dogs exclusively for these many years, thinking they were doing what was best, have perhaps underestimated their own ability to breed good dogs.

Many of them have bred dogs for 40 years or more and could have perhaps contributed much more to their own dogs, by using their own ideas and experience. New ideas are necessary in every field. Sports records are consistently surpassed by those not satisfied with repeating someone else's past performance. Last year's record won't win this year's meet.

Were the dogs of yesteryear really superior? I'm sure many dog men of the past would think we have it too easy, because we don't have to grow secret vegetables and cook our dog's food or boil their water. Penicillin has replaced many old remedies, making better dog care possible. I have read some diets that top dog men used. While some were good, none could compete with any good commercial dog food available in countless supermarkets. The poorest feeder today is able to provide better nutrition than the best feeder of yesteryear. We also have refrigeration and other conveniences.

It is not my intention to criticise old-timers and their methods. How many of us would be feeding as many dogs if we had to cope with the same adverse conditions? I think our mission however, is to pick up where they left off, emulating their objectives rather than their methods. The Colby dogs of the past, fit the description of good blood, as their pit records indicate. The Colby strain was developed on the principle of Best to Best. When that principle is no longer employed there is bound to be a drastic change in quality. In a very short period of time a great strain of dogs can be reduced to a strain that can do no more than refer to their pedigree and say "My great, great, grand-daddy was a pit dog....I think!"


Colby Dog's 20 generation pedigree


American Pit Bull Terriers
The Colby Strain Since 1889
Written By Louis B. Colby



John P. Colby (1875-1941) started his strain of American Pit Bull Terriers in 1889, from the best dogs from England and Ireland brought here by immigrants to such ports as Boston, Ma, Portsmouth, NH and New York. The Colby dogs have been bred continuously since then.

Now, some 116 years later, the strain is still known worldwide for tops in conformation, temperament, and gameness. A "Colby dog" would be readily recognized by breeders anywhere in this country, as well as many foreign countries.

The American Pit Bull Terrier has been referred to in recent years in many ways; some complimentary, some with negative inferences. Yet this breed is probably the most versatile of all breeds.

During the "Great Depression of the 1930's" the American Kennel Club added American Pit Bull Terriers to their registry under the name of Staffordshire Terriers. With this new name for the breed, they needed a standard. After visiting a few kennels, a committee headed by Wilfred T. Brandon chose Colby's Primo as a standard for the breed.

Our family of dogs, the "Colby Dogs", are probably the oldest, purest strain of dogs in the world as attested by the following exhibit. (Click to see 20 Generations dating back the 1890's.

We still breed our dogs for quality. Owning a "Colby dog" is like owning a piece of history.
I think just about everyone on here knows that Blue pit bulls are not rare. When I use the term "rare blue pitbull" the ""s indicate sarcasm. I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. The "rare blue pit bull" phrase is a term often taken from the mouths and websites of BYBs trying to justify charging nauseating amounts of money for puppies with untested peds. I in no way intended to give anyone the impression that there is such a thing. I believe that Lone Star, who my dialogue was directed towards, understood my meaning for the sake of the discussion we were having.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Last time I talked to Mr Colby the pups were 950 plus shipping.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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i have been on the colby website and the dogs are not as crazy coastly as you would think, and they can show you like a 20 generation ped. It is pretty awesome.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
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I say fad because they did not come around till the 90's and then they exploded in popularity 20 years in the last few hundred years of APBT's is still not a long time for a new breed. So yes I still consider them a fad and many owners who fell for the giant APBT thing in the 90's and early 2000's are either going back to real APBT's or got into th new standard of the bullies. Only now in the last few years does the bully breed even have a standard to start breeding to.

I don;t know where you live but Bullies is all I see at the shelters and in rescue groups and now and again will you see the smaller APBT's. I did rescue for over 10 years and saw all the bullies we would get in the shelter system. I just drove home today and saw 3 ppl selling pit bulls on the side of the road and they are all bullies. Now I am not saying only bullies end up in shelters but because of the fad in the 90's they are now very popular and our cities are over flowing with them. It us sad for any breed to go throw the popularity craze look what happened to Dalmatians after the movies came out. We are getting off topic now and I know you and I do not see eye to eye on the bully issues but they are a very young breed and IMO still a fad to many ppl.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:56 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by performanceknls View Post
I say fad because they did not come around till the 90's and then they exploded in popularity 20 years in the last few hundred years of APBT's is still not a long time for a new breed. So yes I still consider them a fad and many owners who fell for the giant APBT thing in the 90's and early 2000's are either going back to real APBT's or got into th new standard of the bullies. Only now in the last few years does the bully breed even have a standard to start breeding to.

I don;t know where you live but Bullies is all I see at the shelters and in rescue groups and now and again will you see the smaller APBT's. I did rescue for over 10 years and saw all the bullies we would get in the shelter system. I just drove home today and saw 3 ppl selling pit bulls on the side of the road and they are all bullies. Now I am not saying only bullies end up in shelters but because of the fad in the 90's they are now very popular and our cities are over flowing with them. It us sad for any breed to go throw the popularity craze look what happened to Dalmatians after the movies came out. We are getting off topic now and I know you and I do not see eye to eye on the bully issues but they are a very young breed and IMO still a fad to many ppl.
That's a good point about the dalmatians, it's a good simile for the blue scenario.

I remember ppl were having problems with their dogs due to over breeding & getting a wrong dog for their lifestyle.

Ppl just need to be more conscientious about what kind of dog their getting & who they are getting it from. Wishful thinking I guess
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Angie View Post
Hi everyone! I'm new here, anyways, I have a question. Some people say blue pit bulls are "bad." I'm not sure what that means. There was a quote I read that said "All because I own a blue pit bull, it doesn't mean I support them" or something like that. Are blue pit bulls like heathens or something?

Second question is about colby pit bulls. I know they're a piece of history but there was a person that said Colby pit bulls aren't rare, there everywhere. (refering to a 100% colby no mix) I always thought the Colby family didn't really give the dogs out and are extremely picky about it?

Just a few questions. =)
Blue APBT's are no different than any other APBT it's just a color like any other. Bullies a variation of the APBT bred for fad/style come in many colors as well, being they are a strain of APBT not just blue but brindle, red etc. Just blue seem to be the most popular right now. And back yard breeders aka breeders without morals, take advantage of this breed, fad/trend THEY created & make it harder for responsible breeders out there.

You will get a lot of mixed opinions on this site formed as 'facts' but not all are so.

This is a great site to learn about the American pit bull terrier, but be careful on how you question colors. You'll open up a can of worms on yourself without realizing. As I did when I first joined, people are so used to this site sometimes they forget how to analyze 'new comers' questions. Just try to take it for what it is, most of the people on here are here to help & really care about the breed

BTW
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:05 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FloorCandy View Post
I think just about everyone on here knows that Blue pit bulls are not rare. When I use the term "rare blue pitbull" the ""s indicate sarcasm. I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. The "rare blue pit bull" phrase is a term often taken from the mouths and websites of BYBs trying to justify charging nauseating amounts of money for puppies with untested peds. I in no way intended to give anyone the impression that there is such a thing. I believe that Lone Star, who my dialogue was directed towards, understood my meaning for the sake of the discussion we were having.
Well, my comment was not directed towards you. I was quoting Diane Jessup's site which led up to the quote from Louis Colby. I am aware of what "" means and I use them often
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Some people say blue pit bulls are "bad." I'm not sure what that means. There was a quote I read that said "All because I own a blue pit bull, it doesn't mean I support them" or something like that. Are blue pit bulls like heathens or something?
That was my response to it-- not directed to your statement-- sorry for misunderstanding!
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:51 AM   #25 (permalink)
 

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For the "average" petbull owner like myself who isn't planning on breeding/working/confirmation etc, but wants a loyal, loving, friendly, and silly companion I could care less if the dog is blue or not. One thing I won't do is shell out silly amounts of money for any particular color--personally I prefer temperament, personality, and size over other considerations. Obviously health is important but as I adopted from a shelter it is simply an unknown--in any event I am willing to pay for any veterinarian care to take care of my best friend.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:31 AM   #26 (permalink)
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For the "average" petbull owner like myself who isn't planning on breeding/working/confirmation etc, but wants a loyal, loving, friendly, and silly companion I could care less if the dog is blue or not. One thing I won't do is shell out silly amounts of money for any particular color--personally I prefer temperament, personality, and size over other considerations. Obviously health is important but as I adopted from a shelter it is simply an unknown--in any event I am willing to pay for any veterinarian care to take care of my best friend.
You love your dog plain and simple! You made your pet bull's day, actually his/her life! Shelter dogs are some of the sweetest dogs I've encountered.
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:18 AM   #27 (permalink)
 

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Thanks for all the replies! Definitely cleared a lot of things up. =)
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Old 07-06-2010, 06:20 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I like the black color more then the blue ima get me a blue pup soon i cant wait most good breeders dont breed for color that why they say what you asked about and colby is not even close to rare you could probley trace most of our dogs back to that line some where
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:49 AM   #29 (permalink)
 

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Colby Pits...

Pure 100% Colby Pits are very rare to come by. I actually did not know that until I had taken my 8 week old puppy to the vet for first shots and to register her. My baby girls vet looked at me and said may I ask where you came by a pure colby pit at? I had told him that my best friends fiances family was selling them for $10 a piece just to get rid of them. I had my friends fiances uncle come talk to my vet and they went back into the family history...and yes my husband bought me a pure 100% Colby pit bull for $10 none of us even knowing how rare or how much they were worth. Danaka is now 10 weeks old and she is spoiled but is THE sweetest puppy I have ever met. I love her to death as I would my own child...and my daughter and son LOVE her and they are typically scared of dogs...
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:15 AM   #30 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by danaka*dream View Post
Pure 100% Colby Pits are very rare to come by. I actually did not know that until I had taken my 8 week old puppy to the vet for first shots and to register her. My baby girls vet looked at me and said may I ask where you came by a pure colby pit at? I had told him that my best friends fiances family was selling them for $10 a piece just to get rid of them. I had my friends fiances uncle come talk to my vet and they went back into the family history...and yes my husband bought me a pure 100% Colby pit bull for $10 none of us even knowing how rare or how much they were worth. Danaka is now 10 weeks old and she is spoiled but is THE sweetest puppy I have ever met. I love her to death as I would my own child...and my daughter and son LOVE her and they are typically scared of dogs...
They are not rare Mr. Louis Colby was breeding and selling them to the public when he was alive and breeding. There are plenty of pure Colby dogs floating around and the line has been very much maintained by Mr. Louis Colby up until he passed on just recently. We also have a member here Lady Rampage who own's colby dogs straight off Mr. Colby's yard. Wether or not the line will be maintained by his immediate family I can't say but I am sure you will have those Colby fan's out there still keeping the blood around until then it's no more Rare than other family of dogs out there.

Last edited by Sadie; 08-10-2011 at 06:31 AM.
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