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Old 10-16-2011, 05:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
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My point is not to say they can live under the same roof and actually get along .. My point is if you have space and crates you can manage these dogs just fine wether they will get along or not. I have a lot of control in my house and am able to manage my dogs just fine. My dog's do not run around in bliss and play with one another without issues. I am constantly intervening and I don't allow my dog's to stay focused on one another for too long. The dog's play sessions are very brief. Are they trying to kill one another no (at least not yet) but they will tolerate each other and I know what I am doing and how to handle these animals properly which is why I can manage 4 bulldogs under the same roof. People make it seem like it's so hard to manage these dog's when it's really not difficult if you have DA dog's crating and rotating is the easiest way to handle it. Kane if you are constantly having issues with getting both dog's to accept one another don't push it or force them to get along just separate. You will be ok if you need any help we are here do not be fearful because they will pick up on that. Just keep an eye on them at all times when they are out together.
I hear ya, i was more or less simply adding on to what you said.. While yes, it is manageable (and fairly easily) to those that are seasoned with multiple bulldogs my point in my post was making sure not to give the impression that these dogs can do well without crate and rotate, or give the false expectation of harmony.

I know you know what your doing, i know you know what your feeding.. If my post came off as i was questioning you it wasn't meant to be.
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Old 10-16-2011, 06:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
 

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No I didn't think you were questioning me just wanted to elaborate more about what I meant by my statement. Kane has been here long enough to at least know these dogs can and will fight even if you have DA dogs in the home it can still be managed very easily I was simply saying if I have 4 game bred dogs and can manage them all it's def do able that does not mean they will get along it just means you work around it. Ariel as far as treating working dog's differently than you would your own house pet I am going to have to disagree with you there. A working dog does not need to be treated any different they just require different needs that doesn't mean they should be isolated or limited from human contact and affection or that they shouldn't be allowed to sleep in the bed .There were box dog's like Virgil who slept on the couch, with the cat, and could even play with other dog's outside of the box. Tornado was another one who was kept in doors. Working dogs often make excellent pets and can be both a worker and a pet and still be treated the same as any other dog in the home. There is nothing wrong with having a strong bond with a working dog it just depends on how you want to treat them I guess.
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Old 10-16-2011, 06:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I actually agree with both sides of the working dog aspect.. A working dog reduced only as pet status is a waste, they should be treated as a working dog. Loving them and keeping them indoors isn't going to hurt anything however dogs kept outside that have that time apart from the handler can create a higher level of need to please...Eager to get worked..

A working dog is a working dog no matter how you cut it, bred properly, worked properly doesn't matter where they lay their head at the end of the day.
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Old 10-16-2011, 07:06 AM   #19 (permalink)
 

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I agree with you there Km if your going to own a working dog it should be worked to it's fullest capability or it's a waste .... I just don't think it really matter's where they sleep on the floor, the bed, the couch, a chain spot a crate it really doesn't make a difference. Also working dogs should be smart enough to know when it's time to go to work it's time to work and when they are at home off the job they are just like any other dog or pet. However you want to keep them when they are in keep or preparing for a competition, hunting season ect that's a matter of preference.
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Old 10-16-2011, 01:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Sadie View Post
I agree with you there Km if your going to own a working dog it should be worked to it's fullest capability or it's a waste .... I just don't think it really matter's where they sleep on the floor, the bed, the couch, a chain spot a crate it really doesn't make a difference. Also working dogs should be smart enough to know when it's time to go to work it's time to work and when they are at home off the job they are just like any other dog or pet. However you want to keep them when they are in keep or preparing for a competition, hunting season ect that's a matter of preference.
*like it matters* I agree 100% with KM and Sadie
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Old 10-16-2011, 04:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The trainer I'm working with (hired by the company) has been employed by the military, FBI, and various police forces. He is very knowledgeable about training scent detection dogs and has a very honest and natural way with the dogs that's very easy to see.

He's explained to me in no uncertain terms (and this was the first day I met him, lol) that while I can treat my dog as a pet and give it all the attention and love and care that I would Kane--in the end, the dog is owned by the company and I have to keep that in mind. They could choose to give the dog to another handler in the future (as it's just me and one other handler right now) or they could decide the dog isn't going to work out and give me a new dog.

My plan is to treat the dog as I would Kane. I don't think it will be hard to keep in mind that the dog is my Work dog as I will be working and training with him every day. By the fact of the job, I'll be doing things with him that I won't be doing with Kane.

Hopefully, their introduction will go as well as Kane and Jax's ... I let them meet outside on leash first, took them on a walk together when things seemed to be going well, and then did what you mentioned Dave, letting Jax inside first to sniff around and the bringing Kane back and going from there. No toys or food or anything out, and I made sure to have their crates set up and ready to go.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
 
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After what happened you are still putting Kane lose with other dogs in the home? Did you not learn your lesson? Apparently not... what are you going to tell your job when /if Kane kills this dog? If I have a dog who has that potential they are never placed with another dog. You need to keep them separate and the only time they need to interact is if they are on leash. SMH......
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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After what happened you are still putting Kane lose with other dogs in the home? Did you not learn your lesson? Apparently not... what are you going to tell your job when /if Kane kills this dog? If I have a dog who has that potential they are never placed with another dog. You need to keep them separate and the only time they need to interact is if they are on leash. SMH......
I had forgotten about that, the best thing to do is crate and rotate.. If your work dog gets hurt by Kane how do you think the company is going to react? Its the companies dog and if the dog gets hurt by fault of yours by trusting Kane you are costing the company money..Whether they understand the breed or not will be set aside and i can only imagine the news that could potentially stem from this scenario.
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Old 10-17-2011, 05:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
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cur dog or not, get 2 crates. now keep 1 crate full at all times. the end.


km is right, working dogs work better when they arent coddled like toddlers, lisa has said the same same thing. i would keep the worker outside, hell show more willingness to please at work by doing that
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:20 PM   #25 (permalink)
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After what happened you are still putting Kane lose with other dogs in the home? Did you not learn your lesson? Apparently not... what are you going to tell your job when /if Kane kills this dog? If I have a dog who has that potential they are never placed with another dog. You need to keep them separate and the only time they need to interact is if they are on leash. SMH......
Ok seriously this is what I was trying to say in nicer terms. IT'S NOT WORTH THE RISK WHY FREAKIN TRY!!!! Your setting your pup up for failure here imho. I just can't agree with you at all on this one

To the others of course a working dog can sleep in bed or wearever, but the companies dog does not need to be sleeping in bed next to the Kane who has a past such as his. Which is why I recommend treating and even thinking of the two dogs on completely separate terms. One pet one working dog that COMPANY property. Just like you wouldn't go mudding in the company truck, at least not if you had a lick of since anyways!
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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In your case crating and rotating is the best choice.

I personally do not understand why some people get more than one dog purposely with the intention of having to crate and rotating. The only reason I have ever crated and rotated is if I was watching or foresting someone elses dog. I don't think it is fair to get two dogs knowing they will have to be crated. It is not the dog's fault that they are dog aggressive, it falls on the owner. If you have one APBT do not get another. This way your dog will be able to live and enjoy life outside a crate.

The only other times I support crate and rotate is for working dogs and someone who is watching a dog for someone else.

Again these are my personal opinions.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:17 PM   #28 (permalink)
 

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cur dog or not, get 2 crates. now keep 1 crate full at all times. the end.


km is right, working dogs work better when they arent coddled like toddlers, lisa has said the same same thing. i would keep the worker outside, hell show more willingness to please at work by doing that
If you look back in your history books at some of the greatest dogs like tornado virgil centipede zebo bloero twoeyes, etc etc all were house dogs or spent the majority of time in the house a real bulldog doesn't care where he is raised as long as he is taken care of and does not live in a crate 24/7 it doesn't change his work ethic! I don't care what anyone says it's been proven that it doesn't matter.

As far as Kane goes I forgot about him and the puppy. Kane because of his history you are better off limiting contact between him and the new dog. If this dog does not belong to you than you are liable if anything happens to it there is no insurance policy that will protect you if Kane decides to take out the dog or if the dog get's hurt under your care.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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youre naming fighting dogs and that has nothing to do with working dogs.

when i say the worker can go outside im not refering to a keep, im refering to a dog that has a job and will work better for the handler.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:13 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Thanks for your opinions guys.

I guess I still don't understand why I can't have Kane with other dogs (as in, my friend's dog) on a limited basis as long as I'm understanding the risks involved (ie, a fight, death, etc). This was a one-off situation and because of my previous experience with Ellie, I took several precautions I wouldn't have before.

Crate and rotate for the long-term with my work dog will be easy to put into place. My working dog will be with me all day 5 days a week, so I'll keep him in his crate at night and let Kane out. And then do weekends like you would normally, every few hours.

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In your case crating and rotating is the best choice.

I personally do not understand why some people get more than one dog purposely with the intention of having to crate and rotating. The only reason I have ever crated and rotated is if I was watching or foresting someone elses dog. I don't think it is fair to get two dogs knowing they will have to be crated. It is not the dog's fault that they are dog aggressive, it falls on the owner. If you have one APBT do not get another. This way your dog will be able to live and enjoy life outside a crate.

The only other times I support crate and rotate is for working dogs and someone who is watching a dog for someone else.

Again these are my personal opinions.
A few things (for both you and others to think over since you weren't the only one to say something similar about why I would get another dog):

1) I'm not getting this dog just to get a dog. I got this dog for a JOB, which will have benefits and pay at least two levels above what my previous job provided me. This new job will allow me to be more independent, taking me out of a minimum wage, paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle. I wouldn't put Kane into this situation if there wasn't some benefit to it overall.

2) I never once said it was Kane's fault he was DA, but it's not the "owner's fault" either. It's neither the dog's fault or the owner's, but the owner can be smart and manage the situation as several people have said.

3) As you said:

I don't think it is fair to get two dogs knowing they will have to be crated. It is not the dog's fault that they are dog aggressive, it falls on the owner. If you have one APBT do not get another.

^ if that were the case, there would be several people here who wouldn't have more than one dog/APBT.
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