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Old 01-02-2012, 07:20 AM   #31 (permalink)
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this nature vs nurture topic seems popular lately.
i think we tend to humanize our dogs in so many ways (ie putting clothes on them and such). people say things like "it's how you raise them that counts" like they are human children. and while this may be true in a general sense. we forget that even human nature cannot be changed. nurture cannot conquer evolution (or hundreds of generations of selective breeding).
how absurd would it be to "teach" a teenager to NOT be horny? or a mother to NOT be protective of her kids? of course these are drastic examples but they illustrate my point. can i show you the gene for horniness? ... no. behavioral traits are not fully understood but the key is somewhere in neurotransmitters and hormones. and that's a ball of genetic wax that isn't easy to unravel like coat colors.
dogs are animals. animals are instinctual. the very nature of their existence is to continue their existence. and aggression toward competitors in the same gene pool is part of that. humans have enhanced and exploited this. it was already part of their genetic make up from their wild ancestors still running around yellowstone. and we have compounded those behaviors with selective breeding programs.
i realize that as a bull dog owner, i must take a close, hard, and honest look at the ancestry of my dog. respect the power of DNA. and work diligently within the parameters that nature has defined. only then can i do right by him.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:33 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Simba View Post
Im sorry but I have to disagree with those who say that these dogs should be treated like wild killing animals. Not every dog is the same. The dog is only as social as the owner makes him. The best example of a dog that looks like a killing machine but will prove anybody wrong with his calm attitude under any circumstance is the great Daddy, Cesar's pit bull that past away. Perfect example of owner molding his dog. To me not all dogs are the same. I've seen chiwawas behave worst then most pit bulls. We are in 2012 people, The days of the killer pit bull are over. The pit bull is as aggressive as the owner lets him be. If your dog cant behave at the park don't blame it on the breed, blame it on your lack of effort to make him social.

Some owners have these dogs and although they don't keep them in a backyard chained and hanging weights from their necks, but they go around acting as if the dog should be feared. Why? What's going on here? This was the first dog at the white house, this was the famous Petey in the movie the little rascals. How is it that in a dogfight they tear each other up and bite chunks off each other yet they don't bite the handlers?

I would love for my dog to be judged individually, not by others irresponsibility. If you treat your dog like he's gonna attack someone or another dog, more then likely he will.
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Sounds like a bunch of excuses for not being able to control and properly train your dog. If you have a dog that attacks other dogs on view then the problem is not the dog. It's your fault for not properly training your dog. Aggression against other dogs is a social problem for not letting them interact with other dogs because you assumed that because it was used for fighting eons ago that it will do it again." Ohh, Im not bringing my dog around other dogs because he's gonna attack" Wrong, Your hurting the dog by not training to be social as a puppy. Every time you tighten the leash when another dog comes around you are sending the dog a signal. You need to assume authority and be the dog owner. Not the dogs bitch. These dogs are so smart that they take training really good. But if your a lazy a$$ and settle for false statistics then you shouldn't own a dog and you actually are putting society at risk. .

You need to be able to read your dogs body language and redirect the mind untill he/she gets it. I understand there are some that have behavioral issues but isn't it like that with every breed? Even humans?

They are how you raise them.
Im not going to waste any more breath than this...
You dont know anything! and dont be selfish,, you are not the end all see all. Its completely obvious to anyone with knowledge you are full of

I was raised right and if you come up talking wrong to me Ima mess your hind end up bro. My dogs are the same.. Learn what Jeep dogs are, then youll know what I have.. Then we will talk about how training and dog aggression dont mesh. Ceasar Milan is your backdrop??? seriously? and 19th century family pets??

Listen to this here.. you can train your pitbull type dog as much as you want. Get him as good around other dogs as you want. And then you will start to get more comfortable letting him around other dogs, and then youll start looking away from him(or her obviously) as they "play", then youll just start letting him go play.... then one day.. a dog is gonna piss him off, and BAM!! Youre right there in the same place as every other ignorant "its how you raise them owner",,, with a dead dog laying under your "well trained" Pitbull..

Would you train a lion to be a household pet and let it grow old and hang our with the kids with no concern of what might happen cause you "trained it"

Like you think you have that kind of control to know that when its trained something wont happen???? well... it happens.. and one day youll learn
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:41 PM   #33 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by rodrigo View Post
i see both points of views as i am debating cutting parks out of Samson s routine.......

there is always a guaranteed safety when u take no risks and that is angelbaby's perspective which i must admit has its logic.

but i have to believe the same way an APBT is not bred for fighting anymore so therefore the aggressive ones arent the sire s on most reputable breeders right??? so why cant be expect the breed to evolve into a more docile dog towards other same sex dogs eventually? and if so...when do we test this eventually?? when the apbt is out of the spotlight and people find another bad dog of the new era ??? like dobermans, german shepards and now pitbulls... discussing this opens minds on both sides so i am all for listening always.

good friday to all....tomorrow is end of the year yay!!!
Pit dogs have been bred since the 1800s (at least) to be fighters. Do you really think it is has been bred out in maybe twenty?

A little story for all you guys. My dog Dooney when I got him I lost my job went and became a pet trainer at Petsmat. Horrible training by the way. Any how I.took him to work with me. He spent the first few months of his life meeting new dogs. One day in the holding area at a dog show. My wife was holding him. A dog lunged at him. He turned on. Though he is not out looking for a fight some dogs just set him off. This dog was as social as a pup could be. When a bulldog turns on, that is centuries of breeding that we will not see undone any time soon.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:22 AM   #34 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by HeavyJeep View Post
Im not going to waste any more breath than this...
You dont know anything! and dont be selfish,, you are not the end all see all. Its completely obvious to anyone with knowledge you are full of

I was raised right and if you come up talking wrong to me Ima mess your hind end up bro.
Hey buddy, don't get your panties in a bunch there. Go ahead and pump your
breaks before you run into something..

To everyone else---->>
Im noticing this is a sensitive subject for some people. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with what you don't feel is wright, It's why I started this thread. I wanted to express my feelings for what I feel is wrong in society and in my view discriminating. Yes, I understand pits have a history of being fighting dogs and the media and irresponsible owners have given them an even worst rep.

The argument is not weather it was my dog or his dog that started the fight. or who was trained better. What upset me was the fact that the breed was singled out and no other dog was given previsions.

I just wish we could go back to when the breed was respected and seen as Americas dog again.

An example of how I felt when I saw that sign is this:
What would you do if a new law is signed that says you can no longer own a pit because it may kill your kids? and that if seen by an officer and he feels the dog is a potential threat to him or somebody else he can take the dog down?.. Not to mention time in jail and huge fines.

That's what could potentially happen if I walk my dog in Miami Fl. 25 min, from where I live. and where I go to visit my mom every sunday. My mom loves Simba and I just feel the law is unjust.



Last edited by Simba; 01-03-2012 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:16 AM   #35 (permalink)
 
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BSL sucks and what makes it worse is bad owners who put this breed in situations where they can be looked at in that kind of light. Whether our dogs are the ones who start the fight they will ALWAYS be looked at as the bad ones no matter how it ends. So since we cant control who owns them I think laws like this at dog parks protect us all as a community. Thats all everyone here is saying.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:44 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelbaby View Post
BSL sucks and what makes it worse is bad owners who put this breed in situations where they can be looked at in that kind of light. Whether our dogs are the ones who start the fight they will ALWAYS be looked at as the bad ones no matter how it ends. So since we cant control who owns them I think laws like this at dog parks protect us all as a community. Thats all everyone here is saying.


yeah laws suck, but when stupid owners think their dog is "special" and could never hurt a fly, sometimes laws need to be made. You can't fix stupid, but you can regulate it for those who can do better but just choose to ignore the breed they own...
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:31 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I understand where you are coming from on the discrimination angle, but the fact is that hole has already been dug. When you own a dog who looks as yours and mine do, you are NOT afforded the same leeway as owners of other breeds. Your dog has to be better contained, better trained and it is not allowed to act like a DOG (heaven forbid) in public. There are no edit buttons in real life, and you can't cut out the scenes you don't want as you can on a TV show (which is what Cesar Milan is)
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:17 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simba View Post
Hey buddy, don't get your panties in a bunch there. Go ahead and pump your
breaks before you run into something..

That's what could potentially happen if I walk my dog in Miami Fl. 25 min, from where I live. and where I go to visit my mom every sunday. My mom loves Simba and I just feel the law is unjust.


[/B]
Ima hit the gas and see what I hit. You wanna see what I run into? watch!

oh...and You need a refresher course on the constitution..
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:19 PM   #39 (permalink)
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people here are upset, simba, because when your dog bites or kills another dog WE ALL SUFFER
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:24 PM   #40 (permalink)
 

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Exactly!

I do not want to lose my dogs because some people would rather not think that their dogs genetics could pop up at any time!We're not saying that your dog cannot play with other dogs.We're saying to do it in the safety of your own home with dogs that you know under a watchful eye.
And seeing as how you already live in a BSL area I'm very suprised and disturbed actually that you would even want to risk or chance any kind of an altercation that could make things even worse

When you own this breed you need to think about everyone else who does too.You need to think about everyone else's dogs.Because everything you do or do not do with your dog effects all of us.
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:58 PM   #41 (permalink)
 
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yeah laws suck, but when stupid owners think their dog is "special"
My dog is not spacial, He's Very Special to me. If that makes me stupid then I'll except it. What does it make you?

Last edited by Simba; 01-03-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:07 PM   #42 (permalink)
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thats why i like real documentaries on this breed. you should watch pit bull carnival, theres a dog fight in it. your dog isnt far removed from the dogs in this movie. its what it was bred to do. there is nothing inherantly evil about your dog, thats just its backround
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:20 PM   #43 (permalink)
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also Daddy, ceasars dog, was not an apbt, he was an american bully.


you said dogs in your dogs past havent fought for eons...dog fighting laws werent enforced until 1976, not that long ago
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:40 PM   #44 (permalink)
 
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This is all Im saying....


Last edited by Simba; 01-03-2012 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:57 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simba View Post
My dog is not spacial, He's Very Special to me. If that makes me stupid then I'll except it. What does it make you?
Informed, responsible, realistic, not setting my dog up to fail, keeping people positive about the breed by not giving them a negative reason... I can keep going but I hope you get the picture.

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what you are saying? Its a freaking clip that says EXACTLY what we all have been saying. Never once does he condone dog parks, never once does he say he lets the dog go on their own instincts, he has to WATCH and TEACH him. THIS IS WHAT WE ARE TELLING YOU and you can't do it in a dog park dude. Seriously, you just made the case against yourself with this clip, lmao. And Junior isn't an APBT.
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