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Old 03-29-2013, 08:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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no papers no pitbull, but what if...

You have papers but your dog clearly isn't an APBT? This is my case lol, Luna came with papers(ukc) although I had no intention showing her or anything so I never sent the registration and the 35 dollars or whatever the fee was to register and get the full pedigree or whatever, If i remember correctly the paper that the breeder signed and gave me had some of the lineage although I haven't looked at it in some time as I have no idea where it is anymore... Anyways my dog definitely isn't apbt according to the breed standards as she was last weighed at 10 months and was 60 pounds. Luckily shes pretty athletic and not one of those ridiculously overdone bullies that can't run or jump worth a darn, now I just can't figure out what to call her lol, ive just been calling her a bully or mutt recently as shes been getting bigger and resembling less and less of what she supposedly is according to her papers. And yes I was ignorant when I got her and thought I had an APBT, I mean that's what her papers said so why would I believe otherwise at the time. But as shes grown she resembles more of an ambully or bully.

I have seen a lot of the visual comparisons of ADBA winning dogs vs the UKC winning dogs and for the most part the UKC ones look more like amstaffs than APBT's. My dog looks like an amstaff but is heavy even for amstaff standards especially considering her weight for her age... I'll post recent pictures when I can get on a computer. Just wondering if you guys agree that calling her a bully is the appropriate thing to do.

And no Im not one of those people that refuses to call their dog anything other than a "PitBull" because that's what they believe they have lol.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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If you have papers, I'm assuming one of the parents was APBT or had APBT in it, so I would just call her an APBT mix since that's all you know for sure, if you really believe she isn't pure.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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This is why everything should be kept simple.. one of many reasons. Genetic background, pedigree in both registered and hand written form tells you what you should have. Function is what the animal ends up, proves itself.

No one has a Pit Dog unless proven to be, all Bulldogs or Bandogs unless otherwise proven.

Many are misregistered, amstaffs registered as apbt, etc... Conformation follows function which is how you have many of yards with decades of physical similarities per strain or sub per yard.

A dog that can fit to the standard of which a registry deems as such is only a partial piece, it means little. If you put that much stock in such some of your ace APBTs are not APBTs according to the books even if proven as a Pit Dog and genetics are made up of APBT aka THE Bulldog.

If I were home I'd show examples but a quick search and you'll find many of conservation about the topic. This is NOT a matter of opinion unless you believe the men whom had their direct hand in establishing the current day Bulldog known as the APBT had no idea what they were talking about.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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if the papers say 'apbt' then thats what you have. now if he came from an untrustwothy breeder, thats your fault for going to him in the first place.
there are some reputable apbt breeders. but to get a well bred apbt pup, your looking at dropping some gold.

if i do sell one they start at a grand, that way you weed out the malcontents. when your dropping that kind of gold for a pup, that leads me to believe your gonna want to do the best for him.
and not be doing some messed up breedings. when you give that kind of gold, then you want the one your breeding to, to be at least of that caliber.

GOOD LUCK
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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if the papers say 'apbt' then thats what you have. now if he came from an untrustwothy breeder, thats your fault for going to him in the first place.
there are some reputable apbt breeders. but to get a well bred apbt pup, your looking at dropping some gold.

if i do sell one they start at a grand, that way you weed out the malcontents. when your dropping that kind of gold for a pup, that leads me to believe your gonna want to do the best for him.
and not be doing some messed up breedings. when you give that kind of gold, then you want the one your breeding to, to be at least of that caliber.

GOOD LUCK
NOOOO Alot of bully owners have APBT papers and do not know they are not apbt. If you feel your statement is true which alot of bully people feel the same then I would have to disagree. I have UKC on a few of mine but to me it does not mean they are APBT clearly they are not. I think this is a very common problem within our breeds and is most likely the biggest factor when it comes to why the APBT breeders hate the bullys so much. to know what you have you have to understand bloodlines and know which is which .
To the OP, I would use those UKC papers if you are wanting to show and dual register with the ABKC instead and focus in a ring that is more geared to the breed you have. If you have no intentions of showing then it really does not matter. Talk to most bully owners and they will tell you they have UKC papers on their dogs ( worthless to say the least, UKC offers nothing for this breed). I would not say you are nieve in buying a UKC registered bully as 90% of them out there are UKC registered.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Trust me I don't claim to have bought this pup in the smartest fashion whatsoever. And no it wasn't a good breeder but it was definitely a learning experience. I'd been hog hunting with dogs a few times with a cousin of mine who has some really nice dogs, APBT's and Catahoula's.. Anyways after that I was set on my next dog being an APBT... I went into the marine corps after high school and ended up getting injured and once I was back home and not able to work for a while I decided to get a "PitBull". Well who would thought that someone selling a dog for 300 dollars with papers and everything wasn't a good deal? NOT ME and not till shortly after did I learn about backyard breeding and everything... Anyways lesson learned, didn't get the dog that I could have, but I was young and stupid... Still young just not AS stupid. But just because I didn't get the caliber of dog I was hoping for, im not going to give up the dog I chose to buy, she's a great pet and it wouldn't be fair to her to give her up just because she wasn't quite what I expected... You live and ya learn
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Trust me I don't claim to have bought this pup in the smartest fashion whatsoever. And no it wasn't a good breeder but it was definitely a learning experience. I'd been hog hunting with dogs a few times with a cousin of mine who has some really nice dogs, APBT's and Catahoula's.. Anyways after that I was set on my next dog being an APBT... I went into the marine corps after high school and ended up getting injured and once I was back home and not able to work for a while I decided to get a "PitBull". Well who would thought that someone selling a dog for 300 dollars with papers and everything wasn't a good deal? NOT ME and not till shortly after did I learn about backyard breeding and everything... Anyways lesson learned, didn't get the dog that I could have, but I was young and stupid... Still young just not AS stupid. But just because I didn't get the caliber of dog I was hoping for, im not going to give up the dog I chose to buy, she's a great pet and it wouldn't be fair to her to give her up just because she wasn't quite what I expected... You live and ya learn
thanks for your service,brother.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hey we all start somewhere its no biggie glad you are looking for answers. If you can find the registration people might be able to help you decider the bloodlines. As angelbaby said you can not go off the registry since the UKC incorrectly registered American Bully bloodlines as APBT. They are willing to take your money even of your dogs don't conform to the breed standard it's a shame so many people don't know but I am glad you are coming here for more information. If you have your pups parents some own maybe able to help you Figure out the bloodlines.


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Old 03-29-2013, 03:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Like others have stated, the UKC registers a lot of AmBullies as APBT. They supposedly were AST APBT crosses so it makes sense that they would have UKC papers at some point. And that all just got passed down the line, but what people don't understand is that if they took their UKC registered bully to a show.... they would either come up DQd or laughed out of the ring... like others have said in the past, u can put papers on any dog u want, call it whatever u want but if it doesn't prove itself (in whatever fashion it was bred for) then its just not what it claims to be.

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Old 03-29-2013, 04:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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I don't think you would get laughed out of the ring. All the shows I have been to everyone has been very nice. If you ask the judge why your dog didn't place they would tell you not be mean about it.

The UKC is only a registry. They keep records. They do not govern what you do with your dog and how you breed it. They don't check every litter produced and registered. They are a tool. Breeders are supposed to use them as record keepers. That is all. Most people do not realize purebred does not equal well bred.
If someone is mixing dogs and someone has the balls to report them and what they are doing the UKC will do dna testing on the dogs and will revoke the papers because they would not be the proper records. Liars and cheats are everywhere. The registry is not inappropriately registering dogs. People using their services are. They do it in all registries not just the UKC.

You could call her anything you want.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:06 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Thanks for all the replies, I dont plan on showing her or anything... Just simply asking what others would call her lol... After reading all the threads about people claiming to have "PitBulls" but having no proof or a dog that does not resemble an apbt whatsoever... Im not like that and I know that what I have isn't a "pitbull". Just simply asking what you guys would call her, most of the time people don't even ask what she is they just say "wow cool pitbull". Or the best is "is that a bluenose?". I just say well her nose sure isn't red as far as I can tell. As far as im concerned I have a dog lol.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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And that's the right state of mind! My newest answer is "well, he is what the media calls a "pit bull"."

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Old 03-30-2013, 04:28 AM   #13 (permalink)
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All of my Am. bullies have UKC or ADBA papers or both. I take those and send them to ABKC to get them papered as Am. bullies. That's what I would definitely do. To the genius that said if there papered as APBT then they must be.....no. Just no.


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Old 03-30-2013, 05:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Breeders have been known to be dishonest before happens with GSDs and lots of other breeds, if your gut is telling you something is not right something is probably not right. Papers don't always mean purebred that's why its important to go through a reputable breeder. Now you know for next time.
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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I dont think everyone understands, I was saying I know she's not an APBT. I was just asking what to call my dog since she's not but papered as such. Bully or just dog is what ive been going by lol. Here the common thing is for people to think the bigger your dog the better and you dont really see APBT just a lot of bullies and some amstaffs. I knew the difference between APBT, amstaff, bullies, staffys, bull terriers, all of that before I got my dog. I just wasn't aware of dogs being sold under names that they were not. Sorry if I was unclear.

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