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Old 05-31-2013, 11:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
Educate, Don't legislate
 
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so nervous

So my state repealed BSL on state level on Nov 1, 2012. The city of Boston got their panties bunched cause they don't want the state telling them what to do and have proposed S.969 which allows breeds to be declared dangerous by how many reported bites are per breed. It also calls for Property tax or Excise tax (this is for cars to be able to be on the road, different from car registration, we have that too) levied if AC fines are not paid. So if your husband has the car and house in their name and you put the dog in the wife's or roommate name, they cant collect. Or if you rent and don't have a car, (HELLO Boston has one of the best public transportation systems and no parking spaces, I knows tons of renters with no car.) Its basically only here because the original people involved in the 2004 pit bull law got pissed the state law got voted on at midnight right before vacation last summer break, and its our fault they left early and didn't get to vote against. Totally BULL

Anyway, I was on a show with the city councilor who is submitting the bill, I was promised the bite stats numerous times by him and Bostons AC. We submitted a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request, you can read what we asked for here: http://www.pblnn.com/images/legaldocs/bostonasfoia.pdf

I got crap back (after paying $400+) and when we complained, they said what we originally asked for would cost over $23,000 now. Basically they cant provide any documentation about how a dog is classified. How many dogs were PTS last year (which is a state law to know) How many other breeds are registered in the city during the time that pit bulls were restricted. They only want to go off reported bites, which are not all reported and have no way to verify breed description.

So I am testifying at the Senate hearing on Tuesday about why the new state law repealing breed specific laws in my state should have a chance to work before they go changing laws with data that doesn't exist. and I am super fucking nervous. There will only be 23 senators there and a bunch of supporter (I HOPE). Some other people testifying as well, but I already have butterflies and feel sick and wonder why I get myself into these things lol

Just had to share cause I don't have many others to talk about it with. Any advice?
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Oh and here is some more detail, if you aren't sick of reading yet, lol

State Freedom of Information Acts?A Powerful Advocacy Tool

The initial response to the FOIA garnered two crappy spreadsheets with weird numbers for the $400, when we complained they didn't answer anything of what we asked, we got this reply from their attorney's:

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REQUEST 1: All documents, memos, emails, data, reports, records, or any other document, paper, or thing in electronic form or otherwise provided by Boston Animal Control to Mayor Thomas Menino, City Councilor Rob Consalvo, State Senator Michael Rush, or any employee and/or agent thereof with respect to Senate Bill 969 (S. 969) or any substantially similar legislation.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 1: M.G.L. c. 4 §7(26)(d) expressly exempts from the statutory definition of public records “inter-agency or intra-agency memoranda or letters relating to policy positions being developed by the agency…” This protection applies to drafts, memoranda, letters, and other documents used by government policymakers as they develop their courses of governmental action. The protection does not extend to “reasonably completed factual studies or reports on which the development of such policy positions has been or may be based.”
Notwithstanding the above exemption to the best of my knowledge and memory Animal Control retrieved electronic data from our Chameleon database (which became operational on the start of last fiscal year: July 1st, 2012) and forwarded that data to Councilor Rob Consalvo. The same procedure and database was used to respond to this request and was provided to your office on April 11, 2013 and entitled Dog Bites by Breed Between 7/1/2012 and 4/9/2013
REQUEST 2: All documents, memos, emails, data, reports, records, or any other document, paper, or thing in electronic form or otherwise provided by Boston Animal Control to any member of the state legislature or any employee and/or agent of a state legislator’s office with respect to S. 969 or any substantially similar legislation.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 2: M.G.L. c. 4 §7(26)(d) expressly exempts from the statutory definition of public records “inter-agency or intra-agency memoranda or letters relating to policy positions being developed by the agency…” This protection applies to drafts, memoranda, letters, and other documents used by government policymakers as they develop their courses of governmental action. The protection does not extend to “reasonably completed factual studies or reports on which the development of such policy positions has been or may be based.”
Notwithstanding the above exemption I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in my possession, custody or control and I have no knowledge of any such communications.
2
REQUEST 3: All documents, memos, emails, data, reports, records, or any other document, paper, or thing in electronic form or otherwise which were relied upon in any way, referenced, or otherwise provided any basis for any reports, recommendations, or opinions given by Animal Control to any of the entities listed in #1 and #2 above.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 3: M.G.L. c. 4 §7(26)(d) expressly exempts from the statutory definition of public records “inter-agency or intra-agency memoranda or letters relating to policy positions being developed by the agency…” This protection applies to drafts, memoranda, letters, and other documents used by government policymakers as they develop their courses of governmental action. The protection does not extend to “reasonably completed factual studies or reports on which the development of such policy positions has been or may be based.”
REQUEST 4: All documents, memos, emails, data, reports, records, or any other document, paper, or thing in electronic form or otherwise that indicates in any way how any of the information provided to the entities listed in #1 and #2 above was derived.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 4: Please see Response to Request 3.
REQUEST 5: All documents, memos, emails, data, reports, records, manuals, pamphlets, books, reference materials of any kind, or any other document, paper, or thing in electronic form or otherwise utilized by Boston Animal Control for the identification of “pit bull” type dogs pursuant to 16-1.9E from inception of the law to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 5: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 6: All documents, memos, emails, data, reports, records, manuals, pamphlets, books, reference materials of any kind, or any other document, paper, or thing in electronic form or otherwise which evidences or tends to evidence the protocol utilized by Boston Animal Control for the identification of “pit bull” type dogs pursuant to 16-1.9E from inception of the law to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 6: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 7: All documents, training manuals, pamphlets, certificates, or any other document, paper, or thing which evidence or tends to evidence the training for and the qualifications of any
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officers who were tasked with pit bull identification pursuant to 16-1.9E from inception of the law to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 7: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 8: Any documents, statistics, papers, tests, DNA tests, or any other document, paper, or thing that evidences or tends to evidence that Boston Animal Control ever tested any pit bull classification made by their Animal Control Officer against DNA or any other scientific evidence or objective standards to determine the accuracy or error rate of such classification pursuant to 16-1.9E from inception of the law to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 8: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 9: All authoritative sources, protocols, guidelines, checklists, scientific journals, standards, reference books, or pamphlets referenced, consulted, tested against, relied upon, or applied that provided a scientific and/or legal basis for Boston Animal Control to determine a dog was a pit bull by visual identification pursuant to 16-1.9E from inception of the law to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 9: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 10: All documents[,] memos, emails, data, reports, records, manuals, pamphlet[s], books, authoritative sources, protocols, guidelines, checklists, scientific journals, standards, reference books or pamphlets referenced, consulted, tested against, relied upon, or applied or any other document, paper, or thing in electronic form or otherwise upon which Boston Animal Control relied from enactment of 16-1.9E to present to deem visual identification an accurate predictor of dog breed for 1) purebreds and 2) mixed breeds.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 10: M.G.L. c. 4 §7(26)(d) expressly exempts from the statutory definition of public records “inter-agency or intra-agency memoranda or letters relating to policy positions being developed by the agency…” This protection applies to drafts, memoranda, letters, and other documents used by government policymakers as they develop their courses of governmental action. The protection does not extend to “reasonably completed factual studies or reports on which the development of such policy positions has been or may be based.”
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Notwithstanding the above exemption I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 11: All documents, memos, emails, data, reports, records, manuals, pamphlet, books, authoritative sources, protocols, guidelines, checklists, scientific journals, standards, reference books or any other document, paper, or thing in electronic form or otherwise upon which Boston Animal Control relied upon from enactment of 16-1.9E to present to deem visual identification an accurate predictor of pit bull “breed” traits, including, but not limited to, a propensity to bite, cause severe injury, or be more dangerous than other breeds.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 11: Please see Response to Request 10.
REQUEST 12: All Court orders involving Boston Animal Control’s visual identifications or pit bulls pursuant to 16-1.9E from inception of the law to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 12: No such documents exist because Boston Animal Control is not responsible for pit bull identification. This identification is either provided by the animal owner or verified by a qualified veterinarian.
REQUEST 13: The Animal Control files for all cases involving Boston Animal Control’s identification of pit bulls via visual identification pursuant to 16-1.9E from inception of the law to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 13: Please see Response to Request 12.
REQUEST 14: Dog bite statistics for Boston from 2000 to present reported in total, by breed, injury, severity of injury, location, victim or in any other manner in which dog bite statistics are kept by Boston Animal Control.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 14: M.G.L. c. 4, § 7(26)(c) exempts “personnel and medical files or information; also any other materials or data relating to a specifically named individual, the disclosure of which may constitute an unwarranted invasion of privacy.”
Boston Animal Control retains its files for 5 years as required under Massachusetts law and therefore the information requested is not within our custody or control prior to 2008. See M.G.L. c. 140 §157. Furthermore, prior to 2012 my department did not utilize a computer program capable of compiling such statistics.
To access this data would require an exhaustive and expensive search of all department files and require the creation of a new document. All the quarantine files are filed by address or location, the files for human bites are the medical reports from the health care provider that treated the
5
victim. Animal to animal reports are from Veterinarian hospitals and from the owner of the pet victim.
The case files under the control and custody of this Department are voluminous and take up approximately three 5-drawer file cabinets. Furthermore, they require redaction of all personal identifiers for privacy reasons. I approximate that to fully answer this request would require 2 employees at an hourly cost of $28.40 per employee approximately 12 weeks (35 hours a week) to sort the three 5-drawer file cabinets of information. The total cost would be approximately $23,855.00.
Notwithstanding the above a document was provided to your office on April 11, 2013 entitled Pit Bull Statistics.
__________________
"There are two temptations to which people fall prey with dogs. The first is to think that biology counts for everything. The second is to think it counts for nothing"
- Tom Junod

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Old 05-31-2013, 11:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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...continued (I can send a cleaner version to you if you're curious, just give me your email

REQUEST 15: All documents, memos, emails, data, reports, records, or any other document, paper, or thing in electronic form or otherwise which were relied upon in any way, referenced, or otherwise provided any basis for the dog bite statistics referenced in #14 above.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 15: I am unable to comply with this request in its entirety at this time because it is too general, all-inclusive and wanting in specificity. To comply would be burdensome and oppressive to the detriment of our department and the tax payers of Massachusetts.
The data compiled to produce Exhibit B was produced using an Access Program Computer System and using the computer program Chameleon. Exhibit A utilized the Chameleon computer program.
REQUEST 16: Written regulations or instructions for compiling dog bite statistics for Boston from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 16: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 17: Written regulations or instructions for determining breed in compiling dog bite statistics from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 17: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 18: Any document, pamphlet, regulations, and or software manual page that evidences or tends to evidence the selections available for choice of breed in compiling dog bite statistics from 2000 to present.
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RESPONSE TO REQUEST 18: Please see Response to Request 14 & 15.
REQUEST 19: Any training manual, certificates, documents, or any other paper or thing, in electronic form or otherwise, indicating the training for any person who has authority to enter the breed information in the software or data entry of breed for dog bite statistics kept by Boston Animal Control from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 19: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 20: All documents, laws, memos, emails, data, reports, records, or any other document, paper or thing, in electronic form or otherwise, that evidence or tend to evidence the records and or data required to be kept by Boston Animal Control with respect to dog bites.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 20: See “The Commonwealth of Massachusetts Municipal Records Retention Manual” produced by the Secretary of the Commonwealth and available to the public at Archives: Records Management Unit
REQUEST 21: Any and all statistics, registration information, or any other document, paper, or thing, in electronic form or otherwise, that indicates the total number of dogs registered in Boston from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 21: Please see Response to Request 14 & 15.
REQUEST 22: Any and all statistics, registration information, or any other document, paper, or thing, in electronic form or otherwise, that indicates the total number of dogs registered in Boston from 2000 to present by breed.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 22: Please see Response to Request 14 & 15.
REQUEST 23: Any and all statistics, registration or licensing information, or any other document, paper, or thing, in electronic form or otherwise, that indicates what percentage of dogs were unregistered in Boston from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 23: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
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REQUEST 24: Any and all statistics, registration or licensing information, or any other document, paper, or thing, in electronic form or otherwise, that indicates actual total population of “pit bull type dogs” whether registered or not in Boston from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 24: Please see Response to Request 14 & 15.
REQUEST 25: Any and all statistics, registration or licensing information, or any other document, paper, or thing, in electronic form or otherwise, that indicates the total number of pit bull type dogs registered in Boston from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 25: Please see Response to Request 14 & 15.
REQUEST 26: Any and all statistics, registration or licensing information, or any other document, paper, or thing which indicates the total number of dogs taken in by Boston Animal Control from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 26: Please see Response to Request 14 & 15.
REQUEST 27: Any and all statistics, registration or licensing information, or any other document, paper, or thing which indicates the total number of dogs taken in by Boston Animal Control from 2000 to present by breed.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 27: Please see Response to Request 14 & 15.
REQUEST 28: Any and all statistics, registration or licensing information, or any other document, paper, or thing which indicates the total number of dogs euthanized by Boston Animal Control from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 28: Please see Response to Request 14 & 15.
REQUEST 29: Any and all statistics, registration or licensing information, or any other document, paper, or thing which indicates the total number of dogs euthanized by Boston Animal Control from 2000 to present by breed.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 29: Please see Response to Request 14 & 15.
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REQUEST 30: Any and all written regulations and instructions for use in compiling Boston Animal Control intake and euthanasia statistics from 2000 to the present, including any manuals or instructions for software specific to that purpose.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 30: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 31: Any and all court and/or Boston Animal Control case files for all dog bite cases from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 31: Please see Response to Request 14 & 15.
REQUEST 32: Any and all court and/or Boston animal Control case files for violators of 16-1.9E from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 32: Court case files are not within the custody and control of this department.
M.G.L. c. 4, § 7(26)(c) exempts “personnel and medical files or information; also any other materials or data relating to a specifically named individual, the disclosure of which may constitute an unwarranted invasion of privacy.”
Boston Animal Control retains its files for 5 years as required under Massachusetts law and therefore the information requested is not within our custody or control prior to 2008. See M.G.L. c. 140 §157.
Please see Response to Request 14.
REQUEST 33: Any documents, budges, funding requests, or any other document, paper, or thing, in electronic form or otherwise, that indicates funding and expenditures for Boston Animal Control from 2000 to the present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 33: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 34: Any documents, budgets, funding requests, or any other document, paper or thing, in electronic form or otherwise, that indicates increased funding and expenditures for Boston Animal Control from inception of 16-1.9E to the present.
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RESPONSE TO REQUEST 34: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 35: Any and all Boston Animal Control case files regarding rabies tests for dog bites from 2000 to present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 35: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
REQUEST 36: Documents, memos, emails, opinions received, created or in your possession that indicate any changes in Boston Animal Control procedures as a result of the new state law regarding breed discriminatory legislation.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 36: M.G.L. c. 4 §7(26)(d) expressly exempts from the statutory definition of public records “inter-agency or intra-agency memoranda or letters relating to policy positions being developed by the agency…” This protection applies to drafts, memoranda, letters, and other documents used by government policymakers as they develop their courses of governmental action. The protection does not extend to “reasonably completed factual studies or reports on which the development of such policy positions has been or may be based.”
Notwithstanding the above exemption I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in my possession, custody or control and I have no knowledge of any such communications.
REQUEST 37: Any documents, data, statistics or other document paper or thing which evidences or tends to evidence the number of dangerous dog complaints from 2000 to the present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 37: Boston Animal Control retains its files for 5 years as required under Massachusetts law and therefore the information requested is not within our custody or control prior to 2008. See M.G.L. c. 140 §157.
Please see Response to Request 14.
REQUEST 38: Any documents, data, statistics or other document paper or thing which evidences or tends to evidence the number of dangerous dog complaints from 2000 to the present by breed.
10
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 38: Please See Response to Request 37.
REQUEST 39: Any data, statistics or other document, paper, or thing which evidences or tends to evidence the number of dangerous dog complaints sustained from 2000 to the present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 39: Please See Response to Request 37.
REQUEST 40: Any data, statistics or other document, paper, or thing which evidences or tends to evidence the number of dangerous dog complaints sustained from 2000 to the present by breed.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 40: Please See Response to Request 37.
REQUEST 41: Any data, statistics or other document, paper, or thing which evidences or tends to evidence the number of dangerous dog complaints broken down by breed for the offenses of running at large, aggressive behavior, bites (any severity), and violation of dangerous dog regulations.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 41: Please See Response to Request 37.
REQUEST 42: Any data, statistics, or any other document, paper, or thing which indicates citations issued by Boston Animal Control broken down by breed from 2000 to the present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 42: Please See Response to Request 37.
REQUEST 43: Any case files, court orders, citations, or fine receipts for any dangerous dog complaints from 2000 to the present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 43: Please See Response to Request 37.
REQUEST 44: Any statistics, data, documents, paper, or things, kept in electronic format, otherwise evidencing or tending to evidence the total number by year of dog related complaints received by Boston Animal Control from 2000 to the present.
RESPONSE TO REQUEST 44: Please See Response to Request 37.
REQUEST 45: All documents, emails, studies, opinions, statistics, or any other paper or thing provided to the Boston City Commission by Boston Animal Control with respect to the passage of 16-1.9E, including but not limited to, animal control records, public input, scientific studies, and every other document whether in electronic form or otherwise.
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RESPONSE TO REQUEST 45: I have been unable, despite diligent efforts, to locate any such records/communications/documents in the possession, custody or control of the Boston Animal Control.
__________________
"There are two temptations to which people fall prey with dogs. The first is to think that biology counts for everything. The second is to think it counts for nothing"
- Tom Junod

“When you KNOW better you DO better.”
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Ames you got this, you're brilliant AND a hero in my book! Just go and do your thing!
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Last edited by redog; 06-09-2013 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Haha thanks Dave. That's much appreciated. I keep telling myself I GOT THIS!!! but my belly isn't listening lol


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Old 06-01-2013, 03:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
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So how are they to base their decisions on whether or not to pass a breed specific law based on bite statistics, etc of the city cannot, ”despite diligent efforts” locate this information themselves?
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carriana View Post
So how are they to base their decisions on whether or not to pass a breed specific law based on bite statistics, etc of the city cannot, ”despite diligent efforts” locate this information themselves?
You hit the nail on the mother effin head. I really don't even know how they could in good conscious pass the law. It's incredible how much scare tactics work.


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__________________
"There are two temptations to which people fall prey with dogs. The first is to think that biology counts for everything. The second is to think it counts for nothing"
- Tom Junod

“When you KNOW better you DO better.”
― Maya Angelou



Last edited by ames; 06-04-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 06-01-2013, 04:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Kick ass and take names Ames. You got this without a doubt. Don't be nervous, be PISSED. I have faith in your abilities. You are well spoken and well educated. You are a force to be reckoned with.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm so proud of you for seeing this through! I have no advice to offer, but I'm keeping you in my thoughts that you pull through this without too much tummy ache and success for your state and all future attempts at B.S. like this. Please keep us posted.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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whoa one serious woman, don't be nervous we're all here rooting for you and i'm inspired by you and your efforts
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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thanks everyone!!! It went very well. There were about 40 people who testified, besides a few weird comments, everyone pretty much stayed on point and had something good to say. By the time the Animal Control Officer got up, he was testifying FOR the bill, we were obviously opposed. He said he knows its not a breed issue but when you have one dog biting more often than another what are you to do? The committee responded with, well if you KNOW its not a breed issue why would restricting dogs based on breed help anything? He didn't know how to respond. Then someone else asked (while looking at FOIA we supplied), its doesn't break the dogs out by breed other than the pit bull's one. What is the total number of other breeds compared to the number of pit bulls? Animal Controls Answer, we have 10,000 dogs registered in the city and estimate 20,000 unregistered dogs. There is no way to supply that data. The congressmen countered, so you want to designate a specific type of dog while not supply the total number of any other breeds, how is that possible?

WHICH IS THE EXACT THING we had wanted them to GRASP! YAY!!! So happy to hear those questions. The hearing lasted about 5 hours. A few representative and congressmen commented they have never received as much support for any bill than they have as those opposing this one. THANKS to ANYONE and EVERYONE who sent in emails about this. I will let you know what the next step is.

The committee decides
1 - kill the Bill, which means a new one could be submitted for next year's session
2 - send the Bill "for study" which basically means they kill the bill without it being able to be brought up again in the near future, apparently recommended for studies are never actually studied...
3 - send the bill on for a vote.

We are hoping for option 2!

Thanks again for the kind words everyone!! Its case of a lot of you that I am where I am today and especially thanks to redog for recommending me to Pit Bulletin Legal News Network I would never have learned the knowledge that was needed without working with them.
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Last edited by ames; 06-04-2013 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Good work! Hope for the best for you guys. If you are called upon to testify again, a good bit of argument is the "caboose theory." Which basically says that if the theoretical caboose is the cause of the most accidents in the train, you eliminate it. Right? Then the next car in the train becomes the new caboose! You end up eliminating the whole train, car by car, in irder to get to the accident causer. Google it. You can probably find a more eloquent way to phrase it.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:51 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Good work! Hope for the best for you guys. If you are called upon to testify again, a good bit of argument is the "caboose theory." Which basically says that if the theoretical caboose is the cause of the most accidents in the train, you eliminate it. Right? Then the next car in the train becomes the new caboose! You end up eliminating the whole train, car by car, in irder to get to the accident causer. Google it. You can probably find a more eloquent way to phrase it.
AWESOME!!! you said it great but I will totally take a look. Hopefully this wont be my last hearing. Well hopefully in my state but now I got the testifying bug
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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So glad you were able to help get through to someone. Keeping my hopes up for Option 2.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:25 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ThaLadyPit View Post
So glad you were able to help get through to someone. Keeping my hopes up for Option 2.
Thank you!!


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