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Old 08-11-2010, 01:24 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bahamutt99 View Post
ETA: I would disagree with requiring DNA on all dogs just because it is so expensive.
I think DNA on breeding dogs would be a great idea. Its $50 much less than the Hips and Heart Test.

No I don't think they should have to DNA the whole litter that would be the buyers choice but it would cut down on alot of shady happenings when they know one buyer sending in a DNA would get there papers pulled.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:31 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by geisthexe View Post
The ONLY REGISTRY that DNA's dogs is AKC and thats not for every dog that comes in.
UKC does DNA.. Unless you are talking about some different type of DNA that I am un aware of. You can DNA-P your dogs and DNA -P Parents give you a DNA-VIP pup if you do the offspring.


Edit.. Are you talking about DNA as in the test that supposedly tells you what breed is in a dog but actually is completely bogus? If so than Yes ONLY AKC does that Test.
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:16 PM   #153 (permalink)
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I know my breed is alot smaller then yours so easier to fight now but there is no changing things if you just sit at a computer and complain. FIGHT to bring the BREED back and have the mixed ones CALLED MIXES in ALL of your registries.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:02 PM   #154 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Elvisfink View Post
That's all fine and dandy, buy you're no different than the rest of the XXL peddlers. First off your "Kennel" is based on mutts from ICK. You've also admitted that there was mixing of breeds in you desired dog, but you're still advertising your mixed breed XXL Bully’s as Pit Bulls!! THEY ARE NOT PIT BULLS!!! You are selling AmBullies a yet unstandardized dog in my Opinion! No I don't hate Bullies I just Hate when they are sold as Pit Bulls.

P.S. Your dogs might move, but the question is "How Long can they Move for?"
You are welcome to your opinion. I could say the same about you though - you're no different than every other staunch, opinionated, game-dog enthusiast that decrees anything over 45lbs as a mixed APBT. The problem is - I don't know you. And you don't know me. I'll post some pics of my original game bred APBT for you. I know full well what a "true" APBT is. I also know that a "true" APBT has everything in a dog I desire - except the size.

My kennel is also NOT based off the "mutts" at ICK. The majority of my dogs were based around Iron Tyson - who was only owned by ICK until I got him. Tyson was as true to form as you will ever find, just on larger proportions. OFA certified (you can look it up) and UKC pointed, I've got the ribbons to prove it. Not to mention a drive from hell and a willingness to please I've seen in few dogs, "pure" or not. With the exception of his grandmother who stems from Notorious Juan Gotty, Tyson's blood came from UKC & AKC champions. But then again you probably consider any APBT that was bred with an AST a "mutt"...

Tyson's pedigree - ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [277866] :: IRON CROSS IRON TYSON

The only other "ICK" dog behind my dogs is Steelhead's Giant Q-ball. She was Watchdog blood, and her ancestry is where the mixing came into play. You can see the AB in her. When I got involved with the "XL" dogs, I wasn't nearly as knowledgeable as I am now. One of the reasons I am moving away from, and breeding that blood "out" of my lines.

My main point is this - and it will never change: I accept what was done in the past, I acknowledge it, and I am moving forward. I am bringing in other blood that is "pure" to clean up the crap that was brought in, and continuously breeding dogs that are more true to form together to bring the look, the form, and the function back, while maintaining the added size. I like big dogs, I grew up with Rotts. But once I got my first APBT it was over - I'll never own anything else. The only element my dogs don't carry over from the APBT of the past is the dog aggression - I not only actively try to breed it out, but I train it out. I have ZERO need for a dog that wants to kill another dog, and neither does anyone else. But that does not mean that if you put another small, furry animal in front my dogs that it won't become a snack or a "toy"....


Quote:
Originally Posted by buzhunter View Post
So, what are you going to call them when you get it perfected? and how do you feel about the UKC not questioning the purity of these dogs?
The UKC is interested in one thing and one thing only - $$. It's a privately owned FOR PROFIT business. Period. Until they start doing what they do for free, what they do is of little concern to me. I used to hold it as the holy grail, but I have since learned that a piece of paper does not make a dog. All it does is tell the story of how that dog came to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalTim View Post
A pure bred Bully is mixed bred American Pit Bull TERRIER.

If it is not a Terrier, it is not an APBT.
The American Bully is not a Terrier. It can not swim with seals and do all of the things a pure bred Bull Dog can do.

The American Bully in NOT A PIT BULL, its an American Bully.
The APBT stems from several breeds being mixed together to create a dog for a certain purpose. The APBT in itself, is a mutt. Yes, it has a standard that was adopted and accepted, but it doesn't change the fact that in it's inception it was the exact same thing you accus the American Bully of being.

I will post some pictures of my "Bullies" performing with a true red/rednose APBT. They are as long winded as she was, and can perform to the level she did in any task....
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:05 PM   #155 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by william williamson View Post
their picture is that of a bunch of pigs tagged as pit bulls.
not A fan of bullies,where I come from anything over 60# on purpose is a waste and serves no purpose other that to be sat next to the escalade,with the owner ganged down in flash and bling,with A "LOOK AT ME" tattoo across their forehead.
every time I see one it's not with the nice mommy and her stroller or granny out for A walk.it's always with someone portrayin the gangster clown on the other end od the leash.
and them 3 guys,deff clownsta's.
I agree with everything except the 60# weight comment.

This breed's image has ruined by gang bangers, wanna-be's, and flat-out low lifes. And it's only getting worse.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:10 PM   #156 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capone22 View Post
So...question I have a 6 month old puppy and I have the application for UKC registration. On it, it states that his father is no limit kennelz OG RAMPAGE, who is the son of OG GLOCK-son of ICK DISCIPLE. Does that mean If I send in the paper, it will be denied? I'ts funny because I have been telling my fiance that I think they are mixing mastiffs with Pits to get the XXL and I stumble on this. I paid $1000.00 for him, from a friend who told me they sell them for around $4000.00 I love my dog, and he really is worth all the money in the world...but asking $1000.00 for a MUTT and lying about it...I'm disgusted.

ETA: If I did one of those tests to see what breed your mixed dog is, will it come up with some other breeds to prove he is a mix?
You can register your dog. Rob from No Limit owns OG Glock. As long as Roman Vaughn didn't own either of your pups parents, you're in the clear.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:19 PM   #157 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehazard View Post
You have large working bulldogs, but they aren't game dogs and APBTs are game dogs.



Colby's says in his book, "there are ppl taking the largest APBT inbreeding them to form what they call the American Bulldog..."

Colby is saying that they are inbreeding the largest APBTs together, that is selective breeding just for size.. Large game dogs come up too but not steady because they are breeding for game a mentality not SIZE, we see out of BINGO, OFRN, and other game dogs and lines there are dogs 75 and a lil more, IMO I agree with Stratton, & Flieg, if a ABPT is over 80 then we should consider it a mastiff... ALL APBTs that push 90+ and WHoppers and XXL are definitely mastiffs IMO (bandogs if you need a softer term) they aint game dogs that for sure and the little fircracker with level a big dog in minutes, and sorry for the lingo but APBTs are game, period.. That was proven with Parkers Bouncer who was the sire to the WHopper dog lineage, and who was defeated by a little 45lbs stick of dynamite.
Won't disagree with you. My dogs are not game, by any means. Nor would I want them to be. Whats the point? They don't need to be "game" to catch a hog, pull a weight cart, swim for hours, jump 11ft. into a tree...and the list goes on.

There's a difference between game and drive, no question about it.

As for all APBT's that push 90lbs+ are mastiffs...I highly disagree. Find me a mastiff that can move like my dogs, run with my dogs, and come close to out lasting my dogs. I've seen my fair share of mastiffs - be it corso's, presa's, english, neo's....seen them all. Not even preformance based Presa's can keep up with my dogs....
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:22 PM   #158 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-crash View Post
with which of their dogs?.. all of them, one of them? i'm not trying to argue i'm just curious.
It has only been PROVEN that papers were hung on one litter. And none of the dogs that had hung papers stayed on ICK's yard - they were all sold. And it wasn't a case of ICK using another breed to mix in - it was a case of a dual-sired litter and ICK sent in a registration with the wrong stud listed as the sire.

Not saying what ICK did or didn't do in terms of other breeds, there are plenty of accusations on that front also.

The reason they were banned from the UKC is because they filed a litter registration with the wrong sire listed. End of story.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:25 PM   #159 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by kg420 View Post
I believe the dogs that they DNA-P'd that didn't match up with the pups was Disciple, Stale Fish, and Osiris.
Osiris and Stalefish had nothing to do with ICK getting banned. Though there is a ton of controversy surrounding Stalefish because of who his father was, and what his father was.

Disciple was listed as the sire of a litter he was not the sire of, thats why ICK was banned.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:25 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geisthexe View Post
It is a shame that you all want to attack UKC when ALL THE ORGANIZATIONS have faults paperwork in dog predigrees. You can not tell me that ADBA has NEVER has a few .. if you I will call you a LIAR. AKC has had many of them in all different breeds.

MY BREED: Beligan Malinois are KNOWN for there false pedigrees b/c of ALL the working dogs out there. Folks are more worried about the working of the breed then standards.

I agree that if found things should NOT BE BRED but you all need to also go after all the breeds like the whopper line, razor edge etc b/c these two lines are still being able to register there dogs and they are MIXED pittys.
Oh an lets go after ALL the AMBULLIES that have UKC paperwork or the AMSTAFFS that have UKC paperwork ...

Instead of crabbing on a board actually do something about it. Letters to organizations with solutions but BEWARE if your line has anything negitatve in it you might also loose your papers.

I do not agree with what this kennel did but before you pick on one you MUST go after them ALL

I will appoligize to ALL that think I am attacking you about your breed of choice this is NOT my intention of this post.
I like for everyone to swallow their rocks(that lump in our throat called pride) and admit we have all been and most today are wrong.. I pointed out the ADBA and the UKC for their allowances of lowstanding breeder ethics. I trained police, scratch, sheriff dep dogs and I know that the Beligan Malinois is only a registered breed in pompus society, as WORKING dogs they COME FROM Denmark, Deutschland with a certificate of breed authenticity but no pedigree as they are working dogs in a sense MOST OF US DONT UNDERSTAND, from resources I know that the dog is a GSD/APBT in ONE! A good dog but itself has political unrest and for good reason its not A PET its a working dog, like an Alaskan husky is not a pet, a Laika is not a pet, and unruley game dogs are sometimes not good pets.

I don't argue because I think I'm right or to be right, I argue to prove the other person wrong

What Im saying is we all need to revert to breeding by the game standard or the BIG dogs need to change dog breed/type or us game dog breeders need to isolate ourselve from the rest of the stock as its own type/breed, those are the only solutions. I know big dogs come up out of game dogs as much as 80+lbs move it over to another stock or cull it out, ppl are confused for good reason, no one wants to take accountability for messin' with perfection. Just from a study of the old mastiffs they came from 80lb pit dogs and were bred to catch poachers theives and unruley cattle, the mastiff today is nothing like its original state which would be a WHOPPER dog as we know it today. Just study the fighting breeds, I think I've even showed ya'll at one point the Dogue De Bordeaux in its true form was almost extinct as a fighting dog and was revived by bullmastiff outcrossing. I understand genetics, just not dense people (not you, people in general)who can't see the big picture.
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Last edited by Firehazard; 08-11-2010 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:30 PM   #161 (permalink)
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Okay,, Okay,,, If you think the ABPT is DOES NOT NEED TO BE A GAME BRED DOG, then take all those Stratton Books, and APBT books written by Colby, Rocca, Faron, Seminic, and pitch them in the trash because you obviously know more about the breed than they do.... The APBT is a game bred dog, or should be... I believe the horse is mush
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:33 PM   #162 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by american_pit13 View Post
UKC does DNA.. Unless you are talking about some different type of DNA that I am un aware of. You can DNA-P your dogs and DNA -P Parents give you a DNA-VIP pup if you do the offspring.


Edit.. Are you talking about DNA as in the test that supposedly tells you what breed is in a dog but actually is completely bogus? If so than Yes ONLY AKC does that Test.
Whats funny about this....

The only dog I ever purchased from Iron Cross is my boy Iron Lion. Who when I turned in his paperwork almost 4 years ago, I sent in a DNA swab along with it.

I got a DNA certificate back stating DNA-VIP, as I was told he would be. I also know for fact that his father was DNA-P because I ended up owning his father and have the certificate.

Now, almost 4 years later I transferred the registration on Iron Lion to my partner. When he got the paperwork back it only stated DNA-P. When he inquired about this at the UKC, they said "His mother was never DNA Profiled"

REALLY??!?!?!?! How then, did you take my $50, and send me a certificate that says you VERIFIED his DNA against his parents???? When you obviously did not do that because his mother isn't DNA Profiled....

I don't know what's happened up in Michigan, but it seems as though the organization itself has gone down the
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:36 PM   #163 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Firehazard View Post
Okay,, Okay,,, If you think the ABPT is DOES NOT NEED TO BE A GAME BRED DOG, then take all those Stratton Books, and APBT books written by Colby, Rocca, Faron, Seminic, and pitch them in the trash because you obviously know more about the breed than they do.... The APBT is a game bred dog, or should be... I believe the horse is mush
I've own all of Seminic, Colby, and Stratton's books and have read them cover to cover, in addition to others.

Seminic has actually been proven to have mis-represented information on several occassions. A simple Google search can verify that.

Stratton and Colby's opinions I put much more weight to. And I'm not saying they were wrong.

All I am asking is this - What is the point of a true, game bred dog in today's society?
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:14 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LionsGate View Post
I've own all of Seminic, Colby, and Stratton's books and have read them cover to cover, in addition to others.

Seminic has actually been proven to have mis-represented information on several occassions. A simple Google search can verify that.

Stratton and Colby's opinions I put much more weight to. And I'm not saying they were wrong.

All I am asking is this - What is the point of a true, game bred dog in today's society?
THen what is the purpose of an APBT is what your saying? SUPPORTING the BSL and don't even know it

I recognized Seminics faults in his readings however he does agree with the men like Stratton, Stevens, Faron, Colby, in the fact the APBT is a game bred NON HA dog. I mention the books that have the most availability.
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:30 PM   #165 (permalink)
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