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Old 08-11-2010, 11:36 PM   #166 (permalink)
 

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RE:
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Originally Posted by NorCalTim View Post
A pure bred Bully is mixed bred American Pit Bull TERRIER.

If it is not a Terrier, it is not an APBT.
The American Bully is not a Terrier. It can not swim with seals and do all of the things a pure bred Bull Dog can do.

The American Bully in NOT A PIT BULL, its an American Bully.


Reply from LionsGate:
The APBT stems from several breeds being mixed together to create a dog for a certain purpose. The APBT in itself, is a mutt. Yes, it has a standard that was adopted and accepted, but it doesn't change the fact that in it's inception it was the exact same thing you accus the American Bully of being.

I will post some pictures of my "Bullies" performing with a true red/rednose APBT. They are as long winded as she was, and can perform to the level she did in any task....

///////////



Wrong.
The other Bull dogs came from the currently called APBT, visible in hunting photos from the 1600s and earlier.

That is, however, a common misconception. The origins of the APBT, and the hidden trait of gameness it has been bred for, will always be debated.

Last edited by NorCalTim; 08-11-2010 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:58 PM   #167 (permalink)
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Bandog Mastiffs

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The Hyrcanian Mastiff "lion dog"

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Old 08-12-2010, 02:47 AM   #168 (permalink)
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Quote:
The only other "ICK" dog behind my dogs is Steelhead's Giant Q-ball. She was Watchdog blood, and her ancestry is where the mixing came into play. You can see the AB in her. When I got involved with the "XL" dogs, I wasn't nearly as knowledgeable as I am now. One of the reasons I am moving away from, and breeding that blood "out" of my lines.
Lionsgate no matter how much you want to breed the AB blood from your dogs they are still going to be mixed mutts that should not be registered just because you can. That right there proves our point you guys are breeding mutts.

Quote:
It has only been PROVEN that papers were hung on one litter. And none of the dogs that had hung papers stayed on ICK's yard - they were all sold. And it wasn't a case of ICK using another breed to mix in - it was a case of a dual-sired litter and ICK sent in a registration with the wrong stud listed as the sire.
Your not the sharpest tool in the shed if you believe this.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:10 AM   #169 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamer View Post
Lionsgate no matter how much you want to breed the AB blood from your dogs they are still going to be mixed mutts that should not be registered just because you can. That right there proves our point you guys are breeding mutts.


Your not the sharpest tool in the shed if you believe this.
it just makes sense to me that they would just join in with whopper, giant, mammoth, lines as they are all bandogs, I think the American Bullmastiff or American Pit BullMastiff or American Bandog has a great ring to it I also think American Game Dog has a ring or Original Game Bred Bulldogs(OG Bulldogs hahaha) LOL I think everyone knows what a APBT is or should be. Something needs to happen to diverge the dogs in identity, maybe they should be introduced into the working dog group

What he's wanting to do, he would have to keep his favorite gyp and get rid of the other dogs and start finding gamebred dogs to choose a great stud from like a proven dog and then take the daughter back to the proven dog and then take that and double back... That is how you will washout characteristics and eventually you can get far enough away through the game dogs to double back to the gyp and line it out kinda like they did them honeybunch litters... BUT unlike honeybunch, they are STILL bandogs.. Unless I guess you send a dog OTC to be proven, then I guess you would be Proven...
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Last edited by Firehazard; 08-12-2010 at 04:22 AM.
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:24 AM   #170 (permalink)
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The day they take away our right to have a true well preserved APBT game dog is the day our American spirit dies!



Game dogs are not meant for everyone to own, and people who want to own an APBT but can't handle the "game" can own a UKC show line dog, or a watered down dog from game lines. But I agree that the APBT should be preserved in it's fullest. What is a beagle who won't chase rabbits? What is a labrador who won't retrieve ducks?

If you can't deal with the DA and the drive of this breed and you want to breed it out or create another breed to get what you desire you are no longer breeding "pit bulls" so please don't let the word "pit bull" get anywhere near your dogs!

The day they take away our rights to own an AMERICAN breed, they will take more and more dogs away til we are all stuck with mutantly imbred little foo foo mutts.


American Home of the FREE and the BRAVE!!!!
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:26 AM   #171 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamer View Post
Lionsgate no matter how much you want to breed the AB blood from your dogs they are still going to be mixed mutts that should not be registered just because you can. That right there proves our point you guys are breeding mutts.


Your not the sharpest tool in the shed if you believe this.
The problem with your statement here, is that I don't have to believe anything at all.....

Not only was I the person that filed the DNA challenge on Iron Cross that got them banned, I've been around Iron Cross and it's owner for years. I also physically interacted with his dogs on a daily basis for almost a year.

I know where Disciple, Osiris, Maiden, Piranha, Q-Ball, Tyson, Phoenix and some of his other foundation stock came from. I owned Tyson for the last 3 years of his life, and I actually kept and cared for some of the other ICK dogs. Anything that came after those dogs, i.e. Stalefish I wasn't around for.

Unless you work for the UKC - you have absolutely no idea why ICK was banned. Period. The only things you "know" are hearsay. So do you work at the UKC?
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:26 AM   #172 (permalink)
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Oh and one more thing as it was explained to me by game dog owners and breeders. If you breed out DA you never know what other valuable traits you are breeding out with it.
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:38 AM   #173 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LionsGate View Post
The problem with your statement here, is that I don't have to believe anything at all.....

Not only was I the person that filed the DNA challenge on Iron Cross that got them banned, I've been around Iron Cross and it's owner for years. I also physically interacted with his dogs on a daily basis for almost a year.

I know where Disciple, Osiris, Maiden, Piranha, Q-Ball, Tyson, Phoenix and some of his other foundation stock came from. I owned Tyson for the last 3 years of his life, and I actually kept and cared for some of the other ICK dogs. Anything that came after those dogs, i.e. Stalefish I wasn't around for.

Unless you work for the UKC - you have absolutely no idea why ICK was banned. Period. The only things you "know" are hearsay. So do you work at the UKC?
Nope dont work for them but it doesnt take a genius to see they are mixed.
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:24 AM   #174 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shes Got Heart View Post
The day they take away our right to have a true well preserved APBT game dog is the day our American spirit dies!



Game dogs are not meant for everyone to own, and people who want to own an APBT but can't handle the "game" can own a UKC show line dog, or a watered down dog from game lines. But I agree that the APBT should be preserved in it's fullest. What is a beagle who won't chase rabbits? What is a labrador who won't retrieve ducks?

If you can't deal with the DA and the drive of this breed and you want to breed it out or create another breed to get what you desire you are no longer breeding "pit bulls" so please don't let the word "pit bull" get anywhere near your dogs!

The day they take away our rights to own an AMERICAN breed, they will take more and more dogs away til we are all stuck with mutantly imbred little foo foo mutts.


American Home of the FREE and the BRAVE!!!!
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:26 PM   #175 (permalink)
 
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I'm all for preserving the breed (even if i'm not interested in owning one) but, i have been wondering this for a while and this seems like the perfect place to ask it. why would any of you want a "game" apbt? I don't just mean it came from game lines, i mean its truly DA. that is like my worst nightmare... "no i cant come over because of the dog" "no you can't bring your dog over mine will try to kill it" Honestly what is the point of that in todays society (where dog fighting is illegal) and why would you want to deal with that.

again, i'm just asking a question, not trying to pick a fight with anybody.
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:33 PM   #176 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by j-crash View Post
I'm all for preserving the breed (even if i'm not interested in owning one) but, i have been wondering this for a while and this seems like the perfect place to ask it. why would any of you want a "game" apbt? I don't just mean it came from game lines, i mean its truly DA. that is like my worst nightmare... "no i cant come over because of the dog" "no you can't bring your dog over mine will try to kill it" Honestly what is the point of that in todays society (where dog fighting is illegal) and why would you want to deal with that.

again, i'm just asking a question, not trying to pick a fight with anybody.
Actually, IMO, all the bull and terrier breeds have some level of dog aggression. I have seen tons of pit bull mixxes that were not gamebred, but were severely dog aggressive. So, just becuase someone breeds away from game lines, does not mean the dogs will be less agressive. So, I guess if you are going to have dog aggression anyway, you may as well get/have a real pit bull. :')
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:36 PM   #177 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Shes Got Heart View Post
Oh and one more thing as it was explained to me by game dog owners and breeders. If you breed out DA you never know what other valuable traits you are breeding out with it.
I think you are right on this one. Over the years I have seen tons of breeders/owners/hobbyists breed for non-dog aggression. They often prefer to allow their dogs to run in packs and walk on spreaders together. I have noticed that it does seem like they end up breeding al ot of other traits out as well, such as drive and energy level.
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:42 PM   #178 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Bethb2007 View Post
Actually, IMO, all the bull and terrier breeds have some level of dog aggression. I have seen tons of pit bull mixxes that were not gamebred, but were severely dog aggressive. So, just becuase someone breeds away from game lines, does not mean the dogs will be less agressive. So, I guess if you are going to have dog aggression anyway, you may as well get/have a real pit bull. :')
thats very true, but i still would like to be able to take my dogs to a friends house, or have them come to mine. i'm not saying throw the dogs in the back yard and leave them all day, but at least be able to take them over and socialize them. i guess thats why i really liked my parents amstaff while i was growing up (he's 12 and still going strong) he was extremely social and was the last dog you had to worry about snapping at anything.

and you're right i don't want a "real" pitbull or what most people on here would consider a "real" apbt, i was just wondering why they do.
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:44 PM   #179 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shes Got Heart View Post
Oh and one more thing as it was explained to me by game dog owners and breeders. If you breed out DA you never know what other valuable traits you are breeding out with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethb2007 View Post
I think you are right on this one. Over the years I have seen tons of breeders/owners/hobbyists breed for non-dog aggression. They often prefer to allow their dogs to run in packs and walk on spreaders together. I have noticed that it does seem like they end up breeding al ot of other traits out as well, such as drive and energy level.

For these reasons right here j-crash.And also people want the original and truest form of a breed of dog that they love.If you say you (not you personally,people in general) love a apbt but don't love what all goes along with it.Then you don't love a apbt.
Like has been said before a apbt is not for everyon.If you want like the way they look but don't like what all goes along with owning one,then they are not the breed for you.There are several others breeds that would suffice for these people.
When I first came to this site I didn't know a apbt from a bully.I thought they were one in the same.Since being here and learning I have come to love the apbt in it's truest form and everything that these dogs represent.ANd if I have to be more responsible and deal with DA to have them,well then that's just the price I'm willing to pay.
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:52 PM   #180 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethb2007 View Post
I think you are right on this one. Over the years I have seen tons of breeders/owners/hobbyists breed for non-dog aggression. They often prefer to allow their dogs to run in packs and walk on spreaders together. I have noticed that it does seem like they end up breeding al ot of other traits out as well, such as drive and energy level.
zeus (my parents amstaff) while having very little to no DA still had/has plenty of drive and energy many a rodent or wandering feral cat met their demise in my parents back yard (regardless of the 6ft. privacy fence) and it is not a small area their is 1 acre fenced in in the back. as for being energetic, at 12 years old i can still get him to play until i take the ball or tug rope (gotta watch the old mans teeth ) away. heck he even caught a rabbit last week. great dog high prey drive, tons of energy no propble ever with DA but he is a "show" bread dog off of ch. bearfoot's souix city scout.
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