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Old 08-04-2010, 04:42 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvisfink View Post
It means that anyone with a contemporary Iron Cross Kennels dog owns a really expensive MUTT!!! Now all the UKC needs to do is expose Dave Wilson and his MUTTS!
But what determines a mutt? How many generations of pedigree from an organization like UKC, APBT, ADBA or others does it require before it's no longer a mutt?
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:43 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Last edited by Elvisfink; 08-04-2010 at 04:55 AM. Reason: double post
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:51 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coppermare View Post
But what determines a mutt? How many generations of pedigree from an organization like UKC, APBT, ADBA or others does it require before it's no longer a mutt?
.
Any introduction of a different breed to a pure breed dog is considered a mutt.

It’s the other way around. How many generations after the introduction of a different breed to a pure breed dog does it make new breed.

Last edited by Elvisfink; 08-04-2010 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:55 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvisfink View Post
.
Any introduction of a different breed to a pure breed dog is considered a mutt.

Itís the other way around. How many generations of introducing a different breed to a pure breed dog does it make new breed.
Precisely. You beat me to it.
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Old 08-04-2010, 05:04 AM   #35 (permalink)
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God only knows how many generations it took for John Swinford to create a consistent looking Bandog. The key factor here is that DVM John Swinford openly admitted to crossing breeds to make a new breed. He NEVER called them Pit Bulls!!!
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Old 08-04-2010, 05:06 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvisfink View Post
.
Any introduction of a different breed to a pure breed dog is considered a mutt.

Itís the other way around. How many generations of the introducing a different breed to a pure breed dog does it make new breed.
I guess AKC could answer that. It's been done a lot in the past.
So if an APBT has Amstaff blood in it's lineage then it's considered a mutt? Or the other way around?
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Old 08-04-2010, 05:15 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coppermare View Post
I guess AKC could answer that. It's been done a lot in the past.
So if an APBT has Amstaff blood in it's lineage then it's considered a mutt? Or the other way around?
That depends on when we are talking. Are we talking mid 1930 or are we talking 2010?

If we're talking 1920's then we're talking Pit Bulls were tested an proven that were entered into the AKC as Staffordshire Terriers. Here's an early AmStaff and one that many of todays AST lines are based on. Yes, AST were proven and tested dogs at one time. If we're talking contemporary UKC regestered American Pit Bull Terriers than we are talk daul registard AST's. In many peoples opinion an APBT with AST blood is a mutt.



Here's a little AST history for you.

The Tacoma Line was developed through the breeding activities of Charles Doyle of Winamac Indiana. The great dog, Tacoma Jack, was whelped in 1927. He was owned by Al Brown. Using Tacoma Jack and Brown’s Judy, Mr. Brown produced a number of outstanding dogs. Several of these, including Tacoma Jack’s Replica, were sent to Charles Doyle. Using Tacoma Jack’s Replica and other Tacoma dogs, and with liberal infusions of Corvino blood through such great dogs as Corvino’s Braddock and Corvinos’s Shorty, Mr. Doyle produced a long line of courage and sound dogs. Some of the best included Ch. Young Joe Braddock, Ch. Doyle’s Tacoma Disaster I, Ch. Doyle’s Tacoma Disaster II, Ch. Kane Tacoma Blaze, and Ch. Tacoma All-A-Blaze. Ch. Tacoma Frivolous Sal, owned by Howard and Janice Hadley, won the National Specialty in 1954. Subsequently Tacoma crosses have been important in all other major AST lines.

Mr. Doyle, who was active in the National Club both as a board member and long-time Secretary, strongly believed in keeping the Staff as Game and Functional as possible. Of all the AST lines, the Tacoma dogs have easily the most outstanding record for courage and capability.

Taken from:
The American Staffordshire Terrier (The Little Red Book)
By Dr. Richard Pasco
Printed in 1977

Last edited by Elvisfink; 08-10-2010 at 03:15 AM.
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Old 08-04-2010, 05:58 AM   #38 (permalink)
 
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from what i read all dogs that were on the ground and registered will carry their papers... all puppies that have not dropped yet will not be allowed to be registered with the uks.

i don't know where people started talking about dogs having their papers pulled, maybe i missed something?
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Old 08-04-2010, 06:07 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-crash View Post
from what i read all dogs that were on the ground and registered will carry their papers... all puppies that have not dropped yet will not be allowed to be registered with the uks.

i don't know where people started talking about dogs having their papers pulled, maybe i missed something?
I don't know what the UKS, but I'm sure it's a typo and yes the UKC is talking about pulling all papers on dogs from several well known sires and dams registered by Iron Cross Kennels. The UKC has also banned all future regesties by ICK. Yes, you missed quite a bit, but if you do a search on GP you’ll catch up quickly. In my opinion all ICK dog papers from the UKC should be pulled! Caveat Emptor!

Last edited by Elvisfink; 08-04-2010 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 08-04-2010, 06:20 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Roman Vaughn, Iron Cross Kennels Review | Rip-off Report #546930

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Quote:
Report: Roman Vaughn, Iron Cross Kennels

Reported By: Paul Wilson ( California)
United States of America
Roman Vaughn - Iron Cross Kennels - Ickunderground.yuku.com - IronCrossKennels.com, Iron Cross Pitbulls scammer, stole deposit, dogs on steroids, mixed breed dogs(presa/pits), unsanitary, Lies about stats Internet
*General Comment... Rip offs...

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Roman Vaughn, Iron Cross Kennels

Internet California
United States of America
Phone: 909-379-2662
Web Address: www.ironcrosskennels.com

Category: Miscellaneous Companies

Submitted: Tuesday, December 29, 2009
Last posting: Tuesday, June 08, 2010
I just want the world to know the truth about the fake
a*****e scammer of a “Pitbull breeder”
named Roman Vaughn from Iron Cross Kennels , Iron Cross Kennels, (WWW.IRONCROSSKENNELS.COM), and his idiotic side kick Nick. When I first visited the Iron cross Kennels
website, I was impressed by the pictures of the dogs, as well as the quality of the website. I had
never seen pitbulls that looked like those.
I contacted Roman Vaughn of Iron Cross Kennels initially through email. Roman
did not respond to my email, so I called him up.

He told me about an incredible breeding he had going with a large
female named Mazeratti and his dogs Stalefish and Disciple. Roman was so desperate for this breeding to
happen he had been letting both of his studs Disciple and Stalefish breed to
Mazeratti while she was in heat. Weird! (She still did not take because of the steroids he had given her.) I told him I was very interested in his Iron Cross Kennels
bloodline and wanted to purchase a puppy from the Mazeratti Breeding.
Roman Vaughn gave me an address to send a $2000.00 deposit to. My wife thought I was crazy for sending a
$2000.00 deposit to a kennel who was already listed on Ripoff Report by other
people who had been taken advantage of.
Roman Vaughn insured me that Iron Cross Kennels does “good business”,
and that the other Rip Off Report had been put there by jealous breeders. LOL, YEAH RIGHT. So I sent the 2000, 00. Dollar money order to
Roman Vaughn and scheduled a trip where I could visit Iron Cross Kennels. I was very excited.
When I went to visit Iron Cross Kennels, I wasn’t
impressed AT ALL. Roman and Iron Cross Kennels
are located in Southern California at
the top of a filthy hill. Roman lives in
a shabby little shack at the top of the hill.
Almost like a trailer. Everything
about this set-up screamed “Trailer Trash Kennels”. Speaking
of kennels, although I did see some kennels, there were no dogs in them. Roman was keeping ALL of his dogs in very
small crates. The type of crate that you
use when taking dogs to the Airport. They
looked miserable. It was some of the
worst conditions I have ever seen dogs kept in.
I felt really sad for these animals.
I have contacted animal control about this issue. There was this guy named Nick there, and he
was running around doing everything Roman told him to, like some sort of a man servant. That really tripped me out. Nick kept telling me how great the ICK blood
line was,and that the other kennels could not compete with Iron Cross Kennels. That got extremely annoying very quickly. Roman eventually told him to shut up, and Nick happily complied. That was a blessing. They showed me a dog called Disciple who was
semi impressive, although his crate was so tiny I couldn’t believe a dog his
size could fit in it. How sad. They
showed me the female Mazeratti who was semi impressive as well, (although not
nearly as large as they claimed on their website. ) They then showed me a dog named Stalefish,
who was definitely mixed with Presa Canario.
(I should know I have been breeding Presa Canario’s for the last 6
years.) Everything about Stalefish
screamed Presa Canario, his markings, his stance, his walk, and his
structure. I told Roman this as well,
and Roman himself said that it was rumored that his father Escalade, was a
Presa Canario, but that he did not believe it.
B******T! It was obvious as h***. Stalefish had every Presa trait in the book!!
Roman Vaughn must
know how to take really good pictures because his dogs were no where near as
impressive in person. At this point I
told Roman I was not comfortable with doing business with him, and requested a
refund of my 2000.00 dollars. Roman told
me that Iron Cross Kennels deposits are transferable to another breeding but
not refundable. Hey the rules are the
rules so I agreed, and left.

Roman later called me and told me that the Mazeratti
breeding did not take. (BIG SURPRISE< THATS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GIVE THEM STEROIDS, EVEN 2 STUDS COULD NOT GET THE JOB DONE), He then told me I
could have a puppy from a Stalefish breeding .
Stalefish looked like a presa canario when I saw him in person. What Roman did not know is that I have been
breeding Presa canario’s for the last 6 years.
I know a Presa or a Pitbull/Presa mix when I see one. Especially one this obvious. No other dog has those markings but a Presa
Canario. DUH!!!! Stalefish could enter a
Presa Canario competition right now and no one would question him. LOL. I told Roman just keep my money, I do not want a Presa/Pitbull mix.
After doing some research by talking to people/kennels that had done
business with Roman, and bought dogs from him, I began to learn the terrible
truth. Roman Vaugh and Iron Cross
Kennels have been giving their dogs steroids and mixing breeds. This is why he deleted all of the other kennels from his links page.
Here are the facts I learned about Roman Vaughn and Iron
Cross Kennels.

The female that I was interested in Mazeratti
was unable to have pups because the massive amount of steroids Roman had been
given her so that she can achieve her size.
Mazeratti also suffers from a prolapsed
uterus. Roman already had tried to breed
her three times and it never worked because of the steroids and the prolapsed
uterus. He knew this breeding with
Mazeratti would not work when he took my 2,000.00 deposit

Disciple is on steroids, and his stats on
the website are false. Most of Disciple
daughters cannot be bred and suffer from a prolapsed Uterus.

Roman Vaughn keeps most of his dogs on
steroids.
Most of Iron Cross Kennels dogs are kept in
very tiny unsanitary kennels. FILTHY!!!!
Iron Cross Kennels accepts deposits on
breedings they know will not take!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roman Vaughn and Iron Cross Kennels are now
basing their kennel on a dog STALEFISH that is obviously mixed with a Presa Canario, but on his
website, www.ironcrosskennels.com
he claims he does not mix breeds to get size.
HAHAHAHA!!!!
The other male that he produced is called
Moran, and he is a Presa as you can get as well.

Moran does not even look mixed, he just
looks like a pure Presa. Any Presa
Canario Breeder would agree after they have saw Stalefish and Moran. Do your research guys, its obvious. Like
really really obvious!

Roman Vaughn, Iron Cross Kennels is a liar
and a scam artist BEWARE!!
It wasn’t worth the 2000 he stole from me
so I let him keep it

Hey Roman if I don’t need a Presa, I
already have a backyard full of them you dumb ass lying inbred skinhead p***k!!

I am not surprised that Roman Vaughns name
was on the muglestons pitbull site endorsing them because he is a scammer just
like them. Here is the link:

(((Redacted)))
He must have learned how to do business
from the muglestons as well.

Hey if
you would like to buy an expensive mixed
presa/pit from a trashy trailer park type of guy that lies About everything on
his website, DOESN’T TAKE CARE OF HIS DOGS, GIVES THEM STEROIDS and RIPS YOU
OFF; THEN I RECOMMEND ROMAN VAUGHN OF
IRON CROSS KENNELS.

WWW.IRONCROSSKENNELS.COM

Here is Roman Vaughn’s information, BEWARE
Cell: 909-379-2662

WWW.IRONCROSSKENNELS.COM


[email protected]
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Old 08-04-2010, 06:37 AM   #41 (permalink)
 
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yeah I read that, how funny
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Old 08-04-2010, 06:49 AM   #42 (permalink)
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When the American Staffordshire Terrier was created, it was only a name change. There was nothing added. The dogs may have been bred for exaggerated features and show ring. But thats basically just a new bloodline. Even APBT's very in look and temperament through bloodlines. I am not one to agree that a dual reg pitterstaff is a mix breed. If nothing was ever added to the blood, than American Staffies are APBT's. Thats my opinion on the whole situation. Amstaff is just a name for a different style of pit bull in my opinion. Although I will call them as such.
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Old 08-04-2010, 06:55 AM   #43 (permalink)
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When will Mugglestons papers be pulled?
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:22 AM   #44 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shes Got Heart View Post
When will Mugglestons papers be pulled?
lets hope sooner than later
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:45 PM   #45 (permalink)
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When will Mugglestons papers be pulled?
The words I wanna say about that kennel would shurley get me banned but OMG do I feel you on that for real. I had a stupid guy with a fat dog from them that wanted to fight his dog with my beautiful Dosia and I had a bunch of not so nice words for him.



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