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Old 03-12-2012, 02:03 AM   #31 (permalink)
 
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Well, if animal cruelty is how a dog becomes game,then I want no part of it.
Just my .2 cents on the matter.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:04 AM   #32 (permalink)
 
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who yas talking to?
Sorry was talking to canines rock regarding the theft of dogs for baitint. It is horrible the lack of education has these thugs taking poeples dogs to use them.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:59 AM   #33 (permalink)
 
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Sorry was talking to canines rock regarding the theft of dogs for baitint. It is horrible the lack of education has these thugs taking poeples dogs to use them.
You're supporting animal cruelty and am the ignorant one?

Sorry. Hate to break it to you,but regardless of whether or not animals are stolen for fighting purpose, used for bait, or fought until the death, it's still cruelty to make two dogs fight against each other just for mankind's sick amusement and to have ego boosts thinking that it makes their dog look strong and them like a badass just becuase they fought another dog. Sorry,but it doesn't make their dogs look strong to support fighting as testing strength/gameness. It just makes them look like they don't give a shit about their dogs. Dogs have feelings too. They don't want to be forced to do stuff until the point where they are severely injured, especially if it's not even for a purpose, like hunting or working them. I am sorry,but is just sick to use as a test whether or not a dog still works when it's severely injured . If that's what gameness is, then I want no part of it. A dog that's badly injured should be at the vet getting treated,not still working or fighting. To give them any less, is to show that you don't care about them because you can just replace them with "another good dog" like their some sort of furniture or something. It's just sick in my frank opinion.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:03 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by caninesrock View Post
You're supporting animal cruelty and am the ignorant one?

Sorry. Hate to break it to you,but regardless of whether or not animals are stolen for fighting purpose, used for bait, or fought until the death, it's still cruelty to make two dogs fight against each other just for mankind's sick amusement and to have ego boosts thinking that it makes their dog look strong and them like a badass just becuase they fought another dog. Sorry,but it doesn't make their dogs look strong to support fighting as testing strength/gameness. It just makes them look like they don't give a shit about their dogs. Dogs have feelings too. They don't want to be forced to do stuff until the point where they are severely injured, especially if it's not even for a purpose, like hunting or working them. I am sorry,but is just sick to use as a test whether or not a dog still works when it's severely injured . If that's what gameness is, then I want no part of it. A dog that's badly injured should be at the vet getting treated,not still working or fighting. To give them any less, is to show that you don't care about them because you can just replace them with "another good dog" like their some sort of furniture or something. It's just sick in my frank opinion.
Reread before jumping the gun, pretty sure he was agreeing.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:31 AM   #35 (permalink)
 

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Reread before jumping the gun, pretty sure he was agreeing.
Umm yeah he was agreeing with you.....
There is only one way to test for gameness.The next closest thing is hog hunting.
I'm not really too sure as to why you were asking the questions if you can't handle the answers.Dog fighting is a part of this breeds history and past.It's part of who they are.It's in their blood.If you can't handle it then maybe you shouldn't own them.
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:05 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by caninesrock View Post
You're supporting animal cruelty and am the ignorant one?

Sorry. Hate to break it to you,but regardless of whether or not animals are stolen for fighting purpose, used for bait, or fought until the death, it's still cruelty to make two dogs fight against each other just for mankind's sick amusement and to have ego boosts thinking that it makes their dog look strong and them like a badass just becuase they fought another dog. Sorry,but it doesn't make their dogs look strong to support fighting as testing strength/gameness. It just makes them look like they don't give a shit about their dogs. Dogs have feelings too. They don't want to be forced to do stuff until the point where they are severely injured, especially if it's not even for a purpose, like hunting or working them. I am sorry,but is just sick to use as a test whether or not a dog still works when it's severely injured . If that's what gameness is, then I want no part of it. A dog that's badly injured should be at the vet getting treated,not still working or fighting. To give them any less, is to show that you don't care about them because you can just replace them with "another good dog" like their some sort of furniture or something. It's just sick in my frank opinion.
No one pre 76' (and even those few that still do) matched a hound that would not want to be there, what would be the point? The entire process prior to actual matches was to see if the said hound (or dog, same meaning) had the ability, if not that was that. Sometimes these curs (non game dogs) were excellent producers, others went on to be hog dogs, pets, etc.. And yes, some also culled.. However any "legit" matching that took place between two gentlemen wasn't to feel like a "badass" or any of what you have in your mind, it was done FOR the dogs, preserving the breed and keeping instilled what the breed was formed upon.. Yes, there were bets placed, drugs as well as alcohol however not ALL were involved with these side "events"..

What you hear on tv about things like people starving their dogs, neglect, beating them to be "mean", training them to "fight", etc is NOT how any respectable man or women did it at its peak in this country.. And of course, in other countries even today.. What the media portrays it as is nothing more than thugs thinking they know what they are doing.. In reality, no one thinks highly of these morons..

I am not glorifying anything, its fact and its simple.. Without the dedication and without the events that occur you wouldn't be able to own these mixes, pets, etc that you do today.. No one would because the APBT in all sense of the word, would cease to exist.. Sure, we would still have the Bulldog but who knows how that would have ended up. (Bulldog meaning APBT that is not proven)

Rudy.. Matching isn't illegal every where in the world and even in the states its a bit naive to believe there aren't game dogs out there.. Whether tested here or else where they still exist. I also tend to agree with you in that the only way to truly test a Bulldog is by the means of (at least in this country) illegal matching.. HOWEVER, the APBT and other pit dogs are not the only breed(s) out there that can possess game so i will say i disagree that theres no legal way of knowing.. Technically.

This is a VERY extreme scenario however lets say you have two people that break in a home with a trained Bandog.. Lets say a Presa, lets say in the mists of things the hound goes after these two people and one of the guys shoots the hound but still gets took down, the other starts beating the dog while the dog turns around and brings down the other.. Lets also say, in the mists of things the dog ends up getting stabbed a few times as well as a fractured leg and broken rib.. However even after all the injury and the dog was able to successfully stop the threat(s) so on so forth.

Now for all intensive purpose lets just theoretically say the hound is lucky and survives, requires surgery (of course) however no vital organs injured though near death when entering the emergency vet.. Would you consider this Presa possessing game? I, personally would say yes OR "game - like" genes that produce very similar results in terms of heart and mentality.

I can throw examples all day but bottom line is PP and catch dogs can offer circumstances of which game is tested.. Common? No.. Should one bank on this as a means to find out? Absolutely not.

Theres only one safe method of testing and that is illegal, again not to glorify anything.. Its just fact. People are drilled so much in what to believe when it comes to this sensitive subject and want to believe anyone ever involved in "dog fighting" are scumbags.. The truth is, not all were. Bad seeds? Absolutely and today is a far cry from yesteryear.

If you can't handle what the breed is than why even own these dogs? Because you want to prove well over 100 years worth of knowledge wrong? Because you don't believe in genetics and its "all in how you raise them?" No one NEEDS a pit dog and thats something to take in strong consideration. I'm not saying go out and buy a Bulldog you have to match them HOWEVER they do need to be worked and they do need to be heavily exercised to remain healthy and happy.. A tired Bulldog is a happy Bulldog. If you want "just a pet" find a shelter or find yourself a breed that has remained consistently as a status symbol or pet status.. Leaving the working breeds where they should be.. With owners and handlers with use for them.
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:28 AM   #37 (permalink)
 
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these threads get old on EVERY forum. give it a rest, if you do not enjoy pitting dogs, that is fine, but that is the true testament. Nowadays people look for ways to claim it...if you hate dog fighting, take the word game out of your vocabulary and use another term...the "n" word will always be a derogatory term used by many to label a certain race, never going to change, catch my drift?
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:16 AM   #38 (permalink)
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these threads get old on EVERY forum. give it a rest, if you do not enjoy pitting dogs, that is fine, but that is the true testament. Nowadays people look for ways to claim it...if you hate dog fighting, take the word game out of your vocabulary and use another term...the "n" word will always be a derogatory term used by many to label a certain race, never going to change, catch my drift?
The "n" word's original meaning was for lazy shiftless people not in the way it became used.

Just as how had people not said "oh dog fighting - fun [for who only god knows]" APBTs and other similar breeds would have been fashioned for another purpose.

And let's put it this way what is the purpose to pitting dogs? Who benefits? The dog so ruined it's got to be put down [and not always humanely]? The man who gets 15 seconds of fame until another dog bests what his dog just achieved? The couple of thousand you earn in victory [get a job]?


Dog pitting is a pathetic way for people to make themselves seem tough [same as a want-to-be gangster going down the street with an oversized brain dead mongrel wearing a spike collar]. You want to be tough hunt a 175 lb puma that has killed some of your dogs with no tent for three days straight in snowing conditions and tell me how you feel afterwards. To anyone whom sees behind the appeal dog pitting is just for people to compensate for their own lack of worth... nothing more, nothing less.

Last edited by BoneMan; 03-12-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:32 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BoneMan View Post
The "n" word's original meaning was for lazy shiftless people not in the way it became used.

Just as how had people not said "oh dog fighting - fun [for who only god knows]" APBTs and other similar breeds would have been fashioned for another purpose.

And let's put it this way what is the purpose to pitting dogs? Who benefits? The dog so ruined it's got to be put down [and not always humanely]? The man who gets 15 seconds of fame until another dog bests what his dog just achieved? The couple of thousand you earn in victory [get a job]?


Dog pitting is a pathetic way for people to make themselves seem tough [same as a want-to-be gangster going down the street with an oversized brain dead mongrel wearing a spike collar]. You want to be tough hunt a 175 lb puma that has killed some of your dogs with no tent for three days straight in snowing conditions and tell me how you feel afterwards. To anyone whom sees behind the appeal dog pitting is just for people to compensate for their own lack of worth... nothing more, nothing less.
And I'm aware my mindset might be a bit harsh but I look at my neighbours pits and pit types used for hog hunting where any dog aggressive animal is immediately put to sleep [because hog hunting isn't dangerous enough without having your pack mate ripping into you] and I see wonderful dogs that are more than willing to go the extra mile in a hunt even if injuried or exhausted.

But occasionally those neighbours will get bored and use a dog aggressive dog in pitting and most have admitted they are thankful Snaps isn't DA because at his size, he'd rip even a pedigreed APBT from those "hard mouth" lines apart.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:59 PM   #40 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by caninesrock View Post
You're supporting animal cruelty and am the ignorant one?

Sorry. Hate to break it to you,but regardless of whether or not animals are stolen for fighting purpose, used for bait, or fought until the death, it's still cruelty to make two dogs fight against each other just for mankind's sick amusement and to have ego boosts thinking that it makes their dog look strong and them like a badass just becuase they fought another dog. Sorry,but it doesn't make their dogs look strong to support fighting as testing strength/gameness. It just makes them look like they don't give a shit about their dogs. Dogs have feelings too. They don't want to be forced to do stuff until the point where they are severely injured, especially if it's not even for a purpose, like hunting or working them. I am sorry,but is just sick to use as a test whether or not a dog still works when it's severely injured . If that's what gameness is, then I want no part of it. A dog that's badly injured should be at the vet getting treated,not still working or fighting. To give them any less, is to show that you don't care about them because you can just replace them with "another good dog" like their some sort of furniture or something. It's just sick in my frank opinion.
Yep I was agreeing with you. The theft of a dog for baiting is a horrible act. And no real dogman would have done such a thing.
Boneman I am not going to go in to what may oray not happen had you dog been pitted anginst a real APBT. I would hate to upset you more. But I will say culling a bulldog for being DA is a very cruel act. In a since they are killing the dog for being what it was all ways ment to be. If you don't want a Da APBT then they should go get a hunting man dog.
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:43 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Yep I was agreeing with you. The theft of a dog for baiting is a horrible act. And no real dogman would have done such a thing.
Boneman I am not going to go in to what may oray not happen had you dog been pitted anginst a real APBT. I would hate to upset you more. But I will say culling a bulldog for being DA is a very cruel act. In a since they are killing the dog for being what it was all ways ment to be. If you don't want a Da APBT then they should go get a hunting man dog.
Oh you don't have to tell me what may or may not have happened. I was there not long after they caught the guy; without the chip in his flesh there'd have been no way to identifying Mojo as the bloodied crumpled corpse - broken hip, broken shoulder, shredded ear [not cropped], amongst other things.

I should have been clearier. The APBTs and pit mixes are generally non dog aggressive every so often you'll get a dog [due to genetics] that is dog aggressive [it's about 1 in every 20 or 30 animals, so its low - low for the breed].

And as for saying dog aggression is what made the APBT that's as ignorant as saying a pug [and any similar breeds] which can't breathe properly was meant to have a squished in face.

The dogs that APBTs and other pit types descended from were used for butchers. So they weren't "dog fighting" animals right off the bat - any twit that says they were, do you're research. We [humans] selectively chose the dog aggressive trait because we wanted dog aggressive dogs... period. No other reason.

If you say that the dog aggression is what makes an APBT then I feel sorry for you. A dog breed should never have been bred because it can tear it's opponent apart better than the last animal all for our [human] sick sense of entertainment. There are much better traits in an APBT dog that could have been enhanced if people had put some thought into it.... but as it is you get BYBs with no thought to temperament, breeding dogs hand over preverbal fist, and as such you've got APBTs with the horrid rep they've got.

As for my collegues putting down a dog aggressive dog, well it's the dog aggressive and human aggressive APBTs and pit types as to why in some towns / cities I've heard if you have a dog that even LOOKs like a pit (doesn't have to be even a single drop of pit blood in there) it's got to be put down the breed bans are that strict.


I can understand in the older days the concept of dog men and pitting [grandfather was one] however in this day and age, it's disgusting and has been corrupted as I said with a bunch of want-to-be punks without the balls pitting their dogs against one another to make up for their own lack of worth.

You want to pit something together? Go to some of the towns in Africa, they have hyenas and baboons on leash for their "pit bulls". Now that takes a lot of balls.

Last edited by BoneMan; 03-12-2012 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:46 PM   #42 (permalink)
 
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I'm pretty sure PIT makes the breed. js
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:49 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure PIT makes the breed. js
And that's like saying - as I've had some real winners tell me - homo sapien means we are all homos.
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:51 PM   #44 (permalink)
 
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Umm yeah he was agreeing with you.....
There is only one way to test for gameness.The next closest thing is hog hunting.
I'm not really too sure as to why you were asking the questions if you can't handle the answers.Dog fighting is a part of this breeds history and past.It's part of who they are.It's in their blood.If you can't handle it then maybe you shouldn't own them.
Exactly. It's part of history and the past. No one should have to "handle" it in the present time though. It's illegal for a reason. Supporting it is almost as bad as actually doing it. It's like if someone kills someone and then I say, "Thank God. I hated that person.", then I'm supporting murder and that's not ok. I'm just giving that as an example,not saying dogfighting is like murder.
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:53 PM   #45 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4747 View Post
Yep I was agreeing with you. The theft of a dog for baiting is a horrible act. And no real dogman would have done such a thing.
Boneman I am not going to go in to what may oray not happen had you dog been pitted anginst a real APBT. I would hate to upset you more. But I will say culling a bulldog for being DA is a very cruel act. In a since they are killing the dog for being what it was all ways ment to be. If you don't want a Da APBT then they should go get a hunting man dog.
Oh. Sorry. My bad. I misread. :blushes:
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