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-   -   Long Term Effects of Spay/Neuter (https://www.gopitbull.com/showthread.php?t=31479)

Aireal 11-19-2010 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfitness83 (Post 366719)
So if the dog's inmune system is currently battling the infection it is ok to introduce more of it or possibly a different strain during this period? I don't see how that makes any sense, a vaccine is simply a modified version of the virus or a dead virus that stimulates the inmune system to come up with the antibodies for this. If the body is already infected and weakened I don't see the benefit, plus the dog just got surgery last week. If you over stress the inmune system enough the dog can even get mange, it happened to my friend's staff with over vaccination.

A good diet could be the answer, I will have my dog's teeth cleaned but when he is older around 6 or so, this shelter dog is only 2 or 3. Since this was a shelter dog with a terrible diet perhaps a raw diet even raw bones to chew is much better in my opinion than putting this dog down again in the same month. I understand bad teeth in humans or dogs can be very harmful but I know for a fact the right diet and chewing toys/bones can make a huge difference.

I am sure if they are prescribing one of the worst feeds in the market they are going after it for the money.

ok so I will agree with you on the dental as I have not seen the teeth (some DO need a dental that young but normally you see it most with greyhounds and poodles) at that age for the most part getting a good dry kibble and regular bones to chew can help clean the teeth naturally. My suggestion (again without seeing the teeth) would be to wait 6 months and within that time if they dogs mouth did not vastly improve then consider the dental.

as far as prescribing the food most don't like it with the new fad food that are coming about all natural and what have you, but science diet is the original veterinary diet that is a fixed formula (meaning every bag is the same) you must understand most vets are not properly trained on alot of the newer diets so all they see when they here you feed TOTW or what have you is that they are not familiar (have not been trained by the company on it) therefore it must be a non fixed formula which is not good for a dogs system. They have been fighting kibbles and bits and ol roy so long at this point it truly is there food otherwise they think your feeding crap. Maybe this is change in the future maybe not but I for one have benefited for these “veterinary” diets and have seen many others do so as well. (FYI I am not getting into a nutrition argument as they made me mad enough to cut someone lol)

however with the borditella it has been proven to reduce the average 12 weeks recovery to 6 weeks so weather you choose to believe it or not that has been proven and to be opposed to that well then fine that just leaves you with that much longer to deal with a snotty coughing dog obviously as you being the owner that is completely your choose.

NesOne 11-19-2010 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfitness83 (Post 366724)
I just tune my vet out after she starts talking about neutering Bernie. :roll:

:rofl: Yup. The 1st time I took Smokey for his rabies shot they asked me if I wanted to bring in a stool sample for them to "test" it. I asked what do you test for, and his response was "for any abnormalities". Yeah, and I bet they would have told me, "If we don't call you, then everything is fine". Nice, quick, & easy $36 for them.

The 2nd time I went I told him "I'm here for his rabies shot ONLY". The vet was kind of hesitant to mention that my boy was kind of the skinny side ;)

Their scale had said he weighed 62 lbs., doesn't sound skinny to me.

NesOne 11-19-2010 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aireal (Post 366725)
...they are not familiar (have not been trained by the company on it) therefore it must be a non fixed formula which is not good for a dogs system.

Here, I fixed it for you:

...they are not familiar (have not been PAID by the company on it) therefore it must be a non fixed formula which is not good for a dogs system.

davidfitness83 11-19-2010 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aireal (Post 366725)
ok so I will agree with you on the dental as I have not seen the teeth (some DO need a dental that young but normally you see it most with greyhounds and poodles) at that age for the most part getting a good dry kibble and regular bones to chew can help clean the teeth naturally. My suggestion (again without seeing the teeth) would be to wait 6 months and within that time if they dogs mouth did not vastly improve then consider the dental.

as far as prescribing the food most don't like it with the new fad food that are coming about all natural and what have you, but science diet is the original veterinary diet that is a fixed formula (meaning every bag is the same) you must understand most vets are not properly trained on alot of the newer diets so all they see when they here you feed TOTW or what have you is that they are not familiar (have not been trained by the company on it) therefore it must be a non fixed formula which is not good for a dogs system. They have been fighting kibbles and bits and ol roy so long at this point it truly is there food otherwise they think your feeding crap. Maybe this is change in the future maybe not but I for one have benefited for these “veterinary” diets and have seen many others do so as well. (FYI I am not getting into a nutrition argument as they made me mad enough to cut someone lol)

however with the borditella it has been proven to reduce the average 12 weeks recovery to 6 weeks so weather you choose to believe it or not that has been proven and to be opposed to that well then fine that just leaves you with that much longer to deal with a snotty coughing dog obviously as you being the owner that is completely your choose.


The dog's teeth are not atrocious per se, they are a bit yellow but I did not notice any build up in the front. They could have a slight build up behind but I agree on waiting a few months. I think she should be given some time rest without surgeries, procedures, shots medicines. Once she is 100% and knows what to call her home and pack then I would look into it. That dog shelter dog has been through a lot and what she needs now is a lot of love and for her surgery to heal. I will look into that bordetalla information that you are providing me, I know that Bernie caught it in puppy school even though he had the shot a month before or so but I am not sure if the vet told me to wait until he was healed to give it to him. IF you have any medical sources I can read I will gladly apreciate it.

I also read the lack of nutrition education that Vets receive in medical school and it is also known that science diet sponsors those programs. I also know that vets get commission for selling that crap. I know in one instance some science diet foods may actually help out I know Lisa stated one of their foods which was completely meat free or something that was supossed to help an overweight dog. When my dog had the stomach bug they wanted me to feed him corn, brewer's rice, soy Science Diet prescription food. I told them no thank you and gave him probiotics with his boiled chicken and rice. I am not a huge fan of all "natural" foods because I am sure they are all not perfect as they seem. In my ideal world I would feed raw and kibble for vitamins but I don;t have the place or a fridge to store raw meat. My chiwawa gets fed raw and kibble and he is doing very good.

Aireal 11-19-2010 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfitness83 (Post 366735)
The dog's teeth are not atrocious per se, they are a bit yellow but I did not notice any build up in the front. They could have a slight build up behind but I agree on waiting a few months. I think she should be given some time rest without surgeries, procedures, shots medicines. Once she is 100% and knows what to call her home and pack then I would look into it. That dog shelter dog has been through a lot and what she needs now is a lot of love and for her surgery to heal. I will look into that bordetalla information that you are providing me, I know that Bernie caught it in puppy school even though he had the shot a month before or so but I am not sure if the vet told me to wait until he was healed to give it to him. IF you have any medical sources I can read I will gladly apreciate it.

I also read the lack of nutrition education that Vets receive in medical school and it is also known that science diet sponsors those programs. I also know that vets get commission for selling that crap. I know in one instance some science diet foods may actually help out I know Lisa stated one of their foods which was completely meat free or something that was supossed to help an overweight dog. When my dog had the stomach bug they wanted me to feed him corn, brewer's rice, soy Science Diet prescription food. I told them no thank you and gave him probiotics with his boiled chicken and rice. I am not a huge fan of all "natural" foods because I am sure they are all not perfect as they seem. In my ideal world I would feed raw and kibble for vitamins but I don;t have the place or a fridge to store raw meat. My chiwawa gets fed raw and kibble and he is doing very good.


ok then it sounds like you are on the right tract, if the teeth are just slightly yellowed but do not seem to have a build up of plaque then my suggestion would be to get your brother to start to start brushing her teeth with a good doggy enzymatic tooth paste, even if he doesn't get a good brushing done if the tooth past gets into the mouth it will start with cleaning the teeth.

I will def look into the borditella research article for you, I may ask the doc when I go in tomorrow see if she has it around.

ya this is why I leave the food thing alone, do the doctors get a percentage of food they carry/indorse of course, you would be stupid to think they didn't. HOWEVER I can tell you no doctor I have been met would carry a food they are uncomfortable with or would not feed there own personal pet which is why some vets do science diet some do eukanuna (such as myself) and other do Purina (the higher quality Purina of course). I personally say if you like a certain food and the dog is doing well on it (not fat skin/coat healthy) then so be it, I love meat but I’m not going to tell a vegetarian he is stupid for not eating a good steak. :roll:

Luvum 11-19-2010 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NesOne (Post 366684)
And is there a benefit to feeding your dog meds for the rest of her life? I would rather pay for the pill/shot that terminates the pregnancy than paying for the estrogen supplement for the rest of her life.

I'm skeptical of all the foreign things we human give to our dogs, and then we wonder why or how they developed cancer or diseases/problems.

Based on your experience, I think validates waiting until they develop the "normal" way before cutting them open.

So you would rather terminate vs prevent? Interesting. Especially considering your preference to keep foreign things out of your dog. You don't consider the pill/shot to be a foreign thing? I thought most vets quit using those methods due to the side affects, but I could be wrong.

I did find it quite disheartening to hear how common spay incontinence is. And while I am pro spay/neuter, I am still unsure of the best age to have those procedures done. There is just so much conflicting information out there. I wonder why that is?

davidfitness83 11-19-2010 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aireal (Post 366744)
ok then it sounds like you are on the right tract, if the teeth are just slightly yellowed but do not seem to have a build up of plaque then my suggestion would be to get your brother to start to start brushing her teeth with a good doggy enzymatic tooth paste, even if he doesn't get a good brushing done if the tooth past gets into the mouth it will start with cleaning the teeth.

I will def look into the borditella research article for you, I may ask the doc when I go in tomorrow see if she has it around.

ya this is why I leave the food thing alone, do the doctors get a percentage of food they carry/indorse of course, you would be stupid to think they didn't. HOWEVER I can tell you no doctor I have been met would carry a food they are uncomfortable with or would not feed there own personal pet which is why some vets do science diet some do eukanuna (such as myself) and other do Purina (the higher quality Purina of course). I personally say if you like a certain food and the dog is doing well on it (not fat skin/coat healthy) then so be it, I love meat but I’m not going to tell a vegetarian he is stupid for not eating a good steak. :roll:

Thanks:roll:

NesOne 11-19-2010 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvum (Post 366747)
So you would rather terminate vs prevent? Interesting. Especially considering your preference to keep foreign things out of your dog. You don't consider the pill/shot to be a foreign thing? I thought most vets quit using those methods due to the side affects, but I could be wrong.

I did find it quite disheartening to hear how common spay incontinence is. And while I am pro spay/neuter, I am still unsure of the best age to have those procedures done. There is just so much conflicting information out there. I wonder why that is?

No, I prefer to prevent. If I had a female dog she would be kept in a crate during her heats until she was 2 years of age and then get spayed. If she accidentally got pregnant, then I would use the terminate method. I don't like using foreign things "if I don't have to" (rabies is mandatory)

To me, keeping the dog contained is prevention, not getting them spayed/neutered at a young age.


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