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Old 11-17-2010, 05:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Long Term Effects of Spay/Neuter

certain areas of our county enacted a mandatory spay/neuter law for all pit bulls by the age of 4 months. my city isn't one of those areas, but it got me curious. is it even healthy for a puppy that young to get fixed? bella is 5 months now and i have been doing some reading to figure out when the best time to get her fixed would be. i read this article and thought it was pretty interesting.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longt...uterindogs.pdf

when did you guys get your dogs fixed and/or what's your opinion on the appropriate age to do so?
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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My opinion is, it is best to do it after the dog is at least 2 years old.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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I didn't read the whole thing, yet, but it seems that at a minimum you should wait until at least the dog is a year old to spay/neuter. Interesting. Thanks for posting the article. I had no idea of some of the risks associated with spay/neuter.

To add, I've also heard, though not from a reputable source, that you can stunt a dogs growth by spaying/neutering too young. Anyone know if there is any truth to that?
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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My vet said at about 7-8 months. I spayed at 7.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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No fixing of a dog until they are over 3 years of age if I cannot contain them properly.
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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No fixing of a dog until they are over 3 years of age if I cannot contain them properly.
What are your reasons though? Does it have something to do with what is said in the article?
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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just got my female done at 7 months, it reduces the chance of mammary cancer by 85% if you do it before the first heat so for females i get it done early. males well i would wait till there round 3yrs and have developed as it doesn't really matter with them.
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I got Roxie spayed at 7 months. We didn't have any experience with unaltered dogs, so I just felt more comfortable doing it before she got into her first heat. I talked it over with the vet I had and she listed all the statistics everyone else will probably list here and that just made me feel even more comfortable in my decision to spay/neuter Roxie/Kane that early. Yeah, it slightly increases the odds for some cancers, but not enough that I'd feel it would be detrimental to my dogs health to do it early. You aren't a bad owner for doing it at 6-7-8 months -- it all comes down to preference.

EDIT: Wanted to add that my vet said when to spay/neuter is really up in the air, even now, with the veterinary academy because some vets are sticking to the traditional 6 months age and others are looking at some of the current studies and saying it should be done when both sexes reach maturity. Unfortunately, there simply haven't been ENOUGH studies done to say for sure which is better than the other.

Last edited by k8nkane; 11-17-2010 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wild_deuce03 View Post
What are your reasons though? Does it have something to do with what is said in the article?
I have seen first hand that early neutering a dog will not change behavior or decrease agression or marking. I am not sure with females and I gotta read more about it but nature gave mamals sex hormones to develop their bodies properly, if you take those away while the body is still developing it can cause problems.

I have read a publication that showed a control study of dogs getting bone cancer, growling taller, having orthopedic issues as well as irritable temperament from fixing.

I know why vets and the HSUS push neutering or spaying the dogs and I agree with it. Too many people can't contain their pets or too many backyard breeders breeding dogs crowding the shelters. However, a surgery is not a quick fix and people need to understand taht every dog is different.

I know a lady in FL who is member of many of the forums who has 6 or more APBT, 2 staffies, a JRT and a Patterdale. All working dogs that compete in events and none of them are fixed. She manages her pack with no problem and all of her dogs are healthy, and she is also all about homeophatic medicine.

Bernie is not fixed and he has never marked in my house or anyone's house that I have brought him to. He gets along with every dog and every cat he meets. I think training, socialization and breeding is what is the most important.
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Old 11-17-2010, 05:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by wild_deuce03 View Post
To add, I've also heard, though not from a reputable source, that you can stunt a dogs growth by spaying/neutering too young. Anyone know if there is any truth to that?
I have read the opposite. I'm not sure about females, but with males the article I read mentioned:

"Dogs neutered before puberty (generally age 6 months) tend to grow a bit bigger than dogs neutered after puberty (testosterone is involved in the causing bones to stop growing so without testosterone the bones stop growing later)."

Pulled from: Canine Neuter
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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That's really interesting Nes maybe that's why Dosia got so freakin tall. I mean dang he's 25in from the ground to his front shoulder. Dosia was neutered around 5 months I think.
Marley was neutered at around 4 months and he just hit his 10th birthday and is in amazing shape for a dog his age. His sister on the other hand was spayed at the same time and has arthritis, and just had to have a tumor removed from the outside of her ribs, not really sure if that has anything to do with it.



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Old 11-17-2010, 07:38 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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The older the better I would say till at least after 2 years old for both sexes. The dog need those hormones to mature properly and just recently I have changed my opinion on this. I do have several dogs who no longer need to be intact and I am fine with getting them fixed now that they are older, the risk of Pyo it too great when the bitches get too old. JMO
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:24 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The older the better I would say till at least after 2 years old for both sexes. The dog need those hormones to mature properly and just recently I have changed my opinion on this. I do have several dogs who no longer need to be intact and I am fine with getting them fixed now that they are older, the risk of Pyo it too great when the bitches get too old. JMO
What changed your mind on this issue?
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:55 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Since 1999, I have assisted and/or scheduled probably a thousand pediatric spays and neuters for puppies and kittens as young as 6-12 weeks old including most of my own pets. I currently work at a lowcost spay/neuter clinic. I've never had anyone complain that it caused health problems later on. Puppies and kittens actually recover a lot faster, they're literally running around that night like nothing ever happened while the adults can take days to recover. Unfixed dogs are also much more likely to get loose looking for a mate. And studies have actually shown that males neutered as puppies are on average an inch taller, so no it does not stunt their growth. Here are some links about pediatric spays and neuters:

Early Age Neutering: Perfect For Every Practice
Quote:
" In the pre-pubescent, the discoveries you will find in surgery, without exception, are: 1. Less bleeding, 2. Excellent visualization, 3. Elastic tissue for easy ligature placement, 4. Everything in miniature and prepubescent; therefore, less stitching and less time is required., 5. Fewer drugs are required., 6. Quicker recoveries with less patient discomfort, 7. Near zero complication, 8. Less healing time"
Early Spay/neuter
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" The younger patients recover faster and have fewer surgical and post-surgical complications than their older counterparts. There is very little to no body fat to contend with, the incision is smaller, surgery time is reduced and recovery time is very short. The research available on the physical, behavioral, short and long-term effects of prepubescent neutering in dogs and cats shows no adverse results. Based on this information, the American Humane Association supports this practice as a feasible solution to decreasing pet overpopulation and the tragedy of resulting deaths. Early sterilization practices are also endorsed by the American Veterinary Medical Association, the American Animal Hospital Association and the California Veterinary Medical Association."
Early Sterilization in Dogs and Cats
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"Another source of resistance to early spay-neuter programs is concern that prepubertal removal of the gonads will result in obesity, urinary incontinence, stunted growth, behavioral abnormalities and other such problems. Some of these conditions are associated with gonadectomy, but there is little evidence to support the contention that risk is elevated by early gonadectomy per se."
Early Spay/Neuter: An Overview
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"These studies report that anesthetizing 6- to 7-week-old puppies and kittens was uneventful. Spays are reported to be easier and faster at 6 to 7 weeks than at 6 to 7 months because there is little subcutaneous fat to hinder entrance to the abdominal cavity and the lack of vasculature reduces hemorrhage. Finding organs was no harder than on the older animal. The speed of castrations at 6 to 7 weeks and at 6 to 7 months is the same, and the testicles are easier to remove and break down. Finally, the younger animals recovered faster and with less pain."
Spay & Neuter - ESP - Early Sterilization Program
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"Questions regarding the appropriate age to perform gonadectomy and the safety of anesthetizing young puppies have been addressed and published. One study comparing the effects of neutering puppies at 7 weeks to those neutered at 7 months, found that neutering at either age produced similar effects on physical, skeletal and behavioral development. Neutering did NOT affect food intake or weight gain. Neutering did NOT result in inactivity or lethargy, in fact, all neutered dogs were assessed by their caretakers to be more active than their sexually intact counterpart. They also found that prepuberal gonadectomy does NOT stunt growth; indeed, it contributes to growth enhancement. Bone growth ceases when the physiological growth plates "close." This closure is delayed about one month with prepuberal neutering resulting in forelimb bones growing a fraction of an inch longer than those of the un-neutered pups."
Dog Owner's Guide: Early sterilization surgery
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"A spayed bitch doesn’t get cancer of the reproductive tract or drip blood on the floor during estrous periods. A neutered male doesn’t get cancer of the reproductive tract and is more likely to stay at home instead of wandering in search of a lady friend."
Compelling Arguments for Early Spay and Neuter of Cats
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"The evidence seems clear that early spay and neuter is not only safe for the youngsters, but that the procedure produces less tissue trauma, is less stressful, provides a shorter recovery period, with a lower risk of complications. On the other hand, no working studies are available to support the appropriateness of waiting the traditional period."
Pet Orphans - Atlanta's Dog and Cat Adoption Website
Quote:
"Pediatric, or Early Spay/Neuter, refers to spaying or neutering pets at a much earlier age than the old six to nine month standard. With today's anesthetics, advanced monitoring equipment, and surgical techniques, not only are these procedures safe in young puppies and kittens, the risk of complication is lower and the recovery period shorter than in mature pets. Concerns about adverse effects have now been proven unfounded. The American Veterinary Medical Association, the Humane Society of the United States, the Association of Spay/Neuter Veterinarians, and the College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Georgia, are among those that support early spay/neuter. "
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:16 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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thanks for the replies guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild_deuce03 View Post
I didn't read the whole thing, yet, but it seems that at a minimum you should wait until at least the dog is a year old to spay/neuter. Interesting. Thanks for posting the article. I had no idea of some of the risks associated with spay/neuter.

To add, I've also heard, though not from a reputable source, that you can stunt a dogs growth by spaying/neutering too young. Anyone know if there is any truth to that?
i have also heard this, but i have also heard what nes wrote. lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfitness83 View Post
I have seen first hand that early neutering a dog will not change behavior or decrease agression or marking. I am not sure with females and I gotta read more about it but nature gave mamals sex hormones to develop their bodies properly, if you take those away while the body is still developing it can cause problems.

I have read a publication that showed a control study of dogs getting bone cancer, growling taller, having orthopedic issues as well as irritable temperament from fixing.

I know why vets and the HSUS push neutering or spaying the dogs and I agree with it. Too many people can't contain their pets or too many backyard breeders breeding dogs crowding the shelters. However, a surgery is not a quick fix and people need to understand taht every dog is different.

I know a lady in FL who is member of many of the forums who has 6 or more APBT, 2 staffies, a JRT and a Patterdale. All working dogs that compete in events and none of them are fixed. She manages her pack with no problem and all of her dogs are healthy, and she is also all about homeophatic medicine.

Bernie is not fixed and he has never marked in my house or anyone's house that I have brought him to. He gets along with every dog and every cat he meets. I think training, socialization and breeding is what is the most important.


i have a reason for all the clapping, lol. ok, here goes...

link to what i'm talking about: http://www.sbcounty.gov/bosd1/viewer...5-1c5986242b22

one of the main reasons i wanted to ask about this and did my research is because the mandatory spay/neuter seemed like a load of bullcrap to me. the public announcement on my county website FIRST says:

"“This ordinance has the objectives of reducing the clear overpopulation of pit bulls in our County,
encouraging responsible pet ownership and, most important, reducing the number of vicious attacks on
people
,” said First District Supervisor Brad Mitzelfelt, who worked with the County’s Animal Care &
Control Division to create the ordinance. “In the past five years, four people in San Bernardino County
have been killed by this breed, and just this year there have been seven attacks by pit bulls. No other
breed has viciously attacked or killed anyone in that time.”
"

Then makes a comment about this NOT being about a 'vicious breed' and instead is about overpopulation.

"State law (California Health and Safety Code Sections 122330-122331) prohibits any breed of dog from
being deemed potentially dangerous or vicious. However, the law allows local agencies to enact breedspecific
programs for spaying and neutering to control over-population.

Pit bull-type dogs represent about 20 percent of all dogs admitted to county animal shelters. They are one
of the top three breeds impounded at county shelters and are the number one breed to be euthanized."

um, what????
1. the county's aim is to reduce vicious attacks by spaying/neutering the breed that's apparently "vicious"....but the law (as they quoted) says they're prohibited from outright calling a breed "vicious"? isn't that what they're saying without just flat out saying it? lol
2. if pit bulls were the #1 breed to be impounded, then why wouldn't they say that? this makes me wonder what the other two breeds are, as well as which is #1, and why those didn't receive a mandatory spay/neuter law. is it maybe because the other two aren't the "vicious" ones?
3. i also like how they said the law prohibits them from deeming a breed vicious HOWEVER they can use the overpopulation excuse instead. they're basically admitting they're using a loophole.

another part of the county's letter says:

"“The most important component to increasing the safety of our residents in relation to pit bulls is
responsible pet care,” said Supervisor Mitzelfelt. “I hope one result of today’s ordinance will be increased
awareness of the danger that results when dogs are not cared for correctly.”"

i don't understand this. are they implying that we're all irresponsible and cannot properly maintain our dogs? the irresponsible owners they are targeting aren't even following this law! a responsible owner would question another's motives when it comes to their pet/family member. i'm not going to fix my dog at 4 months without being responsible and making sure it is safe in relation to her health. when dogs aren't cared for correctly? the county doesn't even seem to care about our dogs well-being so what is this nonsense?

either way we are stuck with this law, for now. so i also noticed that a vet can give you an exemption for a valid medical reason. so out of curiosity i asked my vet if the mandatory 4 months of age was reasonable. i asked questions from what i researched and was basically laughed at. she told me it's perfectly safe, nothing to worry about, done all the time, the sooner the better, etc. i then received a mini-lecture about the law and that it is for bella's own protection and well-being.

personally, i feel like getting her fixed this early could have detrimental effects to her health. a vet doesn't think so. so much for a health exemption.

sorry i wrote a novel. lol

Last edited by mcmlxxxvii; 11-18-2010 at 04:28 AM.
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